stevofoxono Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 My z up until yesterday back many months ago while googling my favourite car seeing what people where up to i discovered a yellow z owned by zedback/mike with yellow bumper fillets. I then joined this forum and continued my search. No one else anywhere has really attempted to do the same, there were a few posts on hybrid of people liking the 280 without the bumper but the users shunned them for thinking of the idea. was thinking about a msa kit but they never replied to me about the cost of postage so I almost completely forgot about the idea until the other day.. My mate photo shopped up this for me soooo... Start of day one A few basic tools, mt dew, lunch in a bag, $50 of expanding foam, aluminium foil and out of pictures a boot load of cardboard lol Z with everything torn off the front. Lots of annoying bolts/screws slightly rusted in place, Taking off the fenders(no pics) found a few rust holes D: Aluminium foil taped onto headlight buckets, little bit of a brace made up and alittle more then the 33% of the foam sprayed recommended by the can Me looking like a seed test fitting the side i crafter My mate/giant help for project haha Beer is a must for these kinda things Progress with the start of the mold Quote
Whittie Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Looks like a few of the 350/370 front bars you can get, I like it! Takes away what is in my opinion the least good looking part on the 280. Off topics, but, speaking of 280's, I saw a SPANKING one this morning in the city (Perth) on my ride in. Was a mettalic purple and really looked the goods. Good ole smell of the L28 hand me longing for my car tho Just one tip as you go, you may want to cover in most of that opening with like a black plastic or something. It looks great but that much of a mouth will make the car want to fly! It will also likely cause overheating issues. Short of the long, big thread over on hybridz between 260DET and myself and a few others looking at engine bay cooling. Step 1: reduce the air intake size Doesn't make sense, but it actually allows air to flow past the radiator quickly and not stall infront of the car. With a big gapping hole, you get a ram effect where the air banks up but not enough can get OUT of the engine bay, so the air going in goes in really slowly, not cooling down the radiator and the car overheats. Also, it acts like an aeroplane at speed.... Anyways, have a look at modern small cars, you'll find that the grill is often one solid plastic piece, they are doing exactly as above, closing in the air openings, whilst still making it LOOK aggresive and like a gapping hole. Best of both worlds Off the top of my head, some black ally with a silver mesh glued on would look tops, but at the end of the day it's up to you. WIll be watching with interest for sure! Quote
maddos Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 That sure does improve the look. Nice photoshop. Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 10, 2011 Author Posted February 10, 2011 cheers whittie, maddos. question with the front, if i put in vents around the headlight buckets somewhere to allow air to escape would that help the problem? Quote
Whittie Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Hey Stevo, Probably not I'm afraid. The whole point is to get the air to pass quickly through the radiator. This means limiting the air in front of the radiator itself and forcing it to go around the front of the car. Someone did some maths and testing and on the road you actually only need about an air opening in the front of the car to be 30% the size of the radiator. This is for an NA btw, you may need a little larger for a turbo with the intercooler, but not much (5% at a guess). On the track, you need 25% opening!! The whole point is to stop the air backing up in front of the radiator. Air vents in the headlight buckets probably would be better than nothing, but the air is still backing up in front of the radiator rather than flowing smoothly and quickly through it. The best spot for vents to allow air out of the bonnet on a zed is about 4 inch's or so behind the radiator. Like I said, just use a black ally sheet to block off most of that opening. It'll still look awesome and it will work well too If you need some ideas, the Wind Tunnel Testing and Results forum over at Hybridz has lots of talk and plenty of pics about blocking off the front grill on zeds Mostly all 240/260 but the same principles apply, especially with the bumper you're planning, it looks a lot like some of the S30 fronts. Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 11, 2011 Author Posted February 11, 2011 Update Starting to box off the bottom lip of the air dam, There's all the cardboard i hijacked from work lol, parked up the z, stuck down some tape on the floor to show the basic shape of where the airdam would sit, marked it out on abit of cardboard and layer one lined up with the z layer twoz. This cardboard skeleton was a bit of a moment where the project seem'd to not be a stupid idea and actually looked like it might/may work. Favourite pic of mate elliot (thanks to whittie's info the size of the gaps been reduced substantially, Once finished if i suffer any overheating problems the gap will be closed off more so) Last picture taken (had to leave to meet up with a few mates so it was left out to chill/set. Will post more pics tomorrow of how it turned out+after shaping, atm its to dark and going to the pub Quote
Sirpent Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Love it, well done ! Now I know Im not the only lunatic on this forum ! Cheers John Quote
MickyG Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 I ask a, (potentially), dumb question out of interest; wouldn't it be easier to start with a big block of polystyrene rather than forming up cardboard & spray foam? In any case, if it looks even half as good as the photoshop when complete it will be a significant improvement over the original. Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 11, 2011 Author Posted February 11, 2011 cheers sirpent you're deffinitely not alone , micky that was originally the plan until i found out it was $120(for the blue/yellow poly, normal would have been difficult to work with) a sheet comparing $16 a can, me+my mate worked it out that we'd prolly need 2 and a half sheets so the cans turned out to be alot cheaper. 4 down and probably 2/3 more cans to go and thanks mate should be better than even the photoshop Quote
luvemfast Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Looks great Don't forget somewhere to mount the indicators and numberplate. Have you thought about some brake ducts? Quote
Stivva Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Real cool build, very different and should make for an interesting ready, well done! Quote
Bigfella Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Love your work. Really looking forward to seeing this one finished. Defiantly makes the ugliest part of the car look great. Quote
Stivva Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I wouldn't say that its the ugliest part, I quite like the front end of the 280 Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 All been thought about luvemfast just going to lay a few extra bits of glass under where i'd like to mount them (still deciding on what indicators to use) Would not know how to include brake ducts atm, going to do some google'ing now to see how it can be incorporated Cheers bigfella,stivva. The bumper i'd say would be the ugliest part of the car just because there aren't to many flaws (just my opinion lol) Tho the roof line leaves something to be desired Ok so because of the big night last night didn't get to much done today, The foam ballooned out of the cardboard skeleton and was 80mm bigger at some points so thanks to a kitchen knife set i bought at kmart for $8 i started carving away the excess (bread knife worked much better then any of the wooden saws I had acces to at my mates place) Did end up using a grinder, the sander did absolutely nothing to the foam. Test fit, Still had a lot of excess foam but just wanted to see how it lined up, The grill attached to the bumper arm support/towing hook points made it so the lip didn't really sit flush but just for a general idea. Late day test fit, Getting the lines fairly close at this point. Took awhile making the cardboard templates for the top and bottom again. Got confused about the angles the lip had to follow to meet up with the bumper line so a few dummy models were made up. Gets kind of confusing after awhile working without plans lol Actually looks really good now, Ran out of light so had to call it quits. Need to do a little more carving but it seems to be taking shape fairly nicely Will do more work tomorrow, hoping to complete the sections between the lip+headlight bucket foam Quote
Stivva Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Could you retrofit a 260 grill into the design? Or do you plan on leaving it open? Quote
nizm0zed Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 nice work!! I did a similar project with a mate about 10 years back. We bought polyurethane foam (surfboard foam) in 4l tins. a tin of each part, mixes up to about 16 square foot of foam. We made a wooden frame of roughly the right shape, mixed and poured the foam into one big block, then carved out our own design. We later discovered that it was easier to make small sheets of foam about 2 inches thick, and glue them in the basic shape then sand it. It also made the whole thing lighter and easier to work with. He ended up doing a dash from scratch afterwards too, he got very creative, using plastic cups for gauge pods on the centre, rough shaped carboard constructs for the instrument housing and stereo opening. If you use waxed cardboard, the foam comes away quite well. Dont use a 240/260 grille, make one from scratch. It can be very similar, but you'll probably find if you try to use the earlier part, it'll look like a tacky add on. the angles will probably be 'just' off. When you do your mounting points in the glasswork, encapsulate some metal tabs into it with a large footprint. One of the big issues with fibreglass parts mounted on cars is vibration elongating holes. If you use a metal insert, you'll eliminate any damage to the glass, give a good strong mount point and you wont have fasteners that loosen over time. Quote
nizm0zed Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Oh handy tip. WEAR A FACE MASK!!!!! yes, shouted for a reason, the dust that you'll whip up is nasty stuff. Learn from my mistakes, dont inhale it, it hurts Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 12, 2011 Author Posted February 12, 2011 Do plan on having a s30 style grill but will most likely end up making it from scratch just to get the curves right, nizm0zed your spot on. Will definitely use metal tabs that's a brilliant idea!! Thank you. How did the project turn out? symmetry is the biggest problem we're having at the moment (sure there will be more to come) Have you got any other tips for the later stages? There is basically no info on the net about what we're doing. face mask noted, for glassing will wear a mask+gloves. For the foam atm its just glasses+ear plugs and a vacuum to catch a small portion of the dust before it coats everything lol Quote
Sirpent Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Hi Buddy, Been following this with interest, you are on the right track and the suggestins posted so far by other members are all valid ones you can use. As far as symmetry what you need is a profile gauge, this will allow you to accurately check the profile of the object you are creating so as to check an entire face and create a uniform shape, I saw these available at Bunnings in the tool section, here is a googled image of one http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10838 As far as ducts, the simplest way would be as follows. Take a 2.5Lt plastic coke bottle, fill it with water so it holds shape, then wrap it in 1 layer of masking tape evenly so as you don't create any over lap ridges, fibreglass does not like sticking to it when cured, then work your glass over it a few layers thick, once cured empty the bottle and slowly work away the plastic, you should be left with a FG tube, position this tube on the face where you want your duct then mark the area and cut away the face, insert the tube and FG from the rear of the bar, once cured trim and sand the surface and round off the edges, presto incorporated duct. Hope this helps. Cheers john Quote
nizm0zed Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 To maintain symmetry on my mates project, we made up several templates out of some stiff cardboard. We measured and marked several reference points on surrounding areas, then held the templates against it to see where it touched or needed shaping. For the oppisite side, we would invert the template for horizontal planes, so they'd follow the right curves. Most of the time though, it was just mk1 eyeball from several angles. Quote
Sirpent Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I remembered seeing this some months ago, its a multi part series but should give you a lot of idea's. They basically created symmetrical bulkheads that once filled guided their finishing of the panel shapes, you may still be able to do this where you have to join the lower section to the buckets and so as to create the chin line along the outer parameter Cheers John EDIT forgot to paste the link ! Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 jesus christ that car is amazing.. was going to make a post a hour ago but got distracted, Think i'll be needing a profile guage and some coke for tomorrow lol. Cardboard template saved the whole bottom piece of foam yesterday, without it we (me and elliot) would have made some big mistakes. Cheers for the advice Didn't get to much done today, Had a bit of a scare when the z refused to start. 6 new spark plugs, petrol filter and she feels much more powerful. repco has a 20% discount for racq members for this month Middle sections boxed off, Favourite picture by far. Shaved back the headlight bucket foam to be more even, took a template off the bottom and lined it up with the bottom section. Surprised that the taper actually met up with what was drawn up the other day. Still need to do alittle carving to get: / \ effect The bottom section can't quiet slide far enough back atm (the metal that holds the bumper/towing hook is in the way, will sort that out later with the glass) But other then that it all lines up And thats as far as we got until the sun disappeared.. more to come Quote
stevofoxono Posted February 26, 2011 Author Posted February 26, 2011 Alil more progress (been distracted by work/new speakers/changing gaskets and all) The middle section of foam done ^^ The next boxed off section (will round it out a bit but rather have more then less to work with) Ended up cutting the bottom piece of foam into 4 pieces, Was a struggle putting a knife to it.. (emotionally not physically lol) Found out after it was cut that the original measurements were now wrong so changed the angle of the level just above the lip. Its now like And end of day Just need to do some carving now and then its time for plaster Quote
Stivva Posted February 27, 2011 Posted February 27, 2011 looks like it is really coming along now! Quote
Whittie Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 /@ \ \ ____> \ (__O) \ (____@) \ (____@) \ (__o)_ \ \ \ Looking good mate! Quote
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