Converting a Fast 260 into a daily driver

[stevo_gj]

Hey all,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster. Usual story, young driver infatuated with Zs since early high school now halfway through uni (mechanical engineering) and actually on the market for one. I know your probably thinking mate put this in the WTB section but I have a couple questions that are very relevant to fuel systems (or so i think). Sorry mods if I have put this in the wrong place

 

I have been looking at the red 260 for sale in brisbane by Dues Ex, heres a link to his thread if you haven't already seen it. Beautiful car and from the sounds of it very well priced. http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2018.0.html 

 

Now here is my question: What options are there for converting the engine on that car, or another like it, to make it a better 'daily driver', and what kind of costs would I be looking at?  

 

Better 'daily driver' would be: Less smell inside cabin, better fuel efficiency, greater ease of driving in peak hour traffic.

 

70% of my driving is me going to uni and if you live in Brisbane then you know the nightmare that is coronation drive. I have considered having two cars with the second as my daily driver but I simply don't have the garage space for it. Now don't get me wrong, I straight out love Zs but I just can't see myself being able to drive a Z with triple carbs every day. I know that it is very fuel inefficient and probably hard to drive in stop start conditions, and the smell inside the cabin is apparently pretty bad.

 

I don't want to get any other car, and if there was a way I could convert the engine that would go some way towards fixing these problems then I would be very satisfied. I'm not particularly concerned with power, losing some to fix the other things wouldn't bother me at all.

 

I know its probably not going to be feasible to do this, but damn it, since when has that stopped any Z enthusiast before! 

 

I appreciate any advice you guys want to give, and I look forward to reading your replies 

 

Steve

 

 

[sco_aus]

The fume problem is one that has been pondered for generations.  Whilst driving, it is caused by the aerodynamics of the car swirling the exhaust fumes around at the tailight are and it leaks its way in from there.  Its very hard to seal off, however, I have heard that putting on a front spoiler not only increases high speed stability and thats never a bad thing, it also dramatically reduces the amount of air going under the car, therefore decreasing the amount of air swirling at the rear and the other one is to add a BRE style spoiler or similar tot he boot.  According to ZD44TT who did both of these said it pretty much eliminated the entire problem.  However if it is still happening at idle, then I can't help on that topic.

Some others may have different methods etc

[Scoota G]

Yes the fume problem. I noticed a couple of weeks ago that the passenger side of the Car was getting Dirtier than the drivers side. It's not dirt it is just the deposits from the Exhaust traveling back up the car, around the wheels (as they turn Anti-clockwise on that side Facing out and generate a fair bit of wind speed) and then into the car via the passenger door.

Don't always look for the obvious answer to this problem. I have a smoke machine from my acting days in Fringe Festivals that i will bring to the next Club Meeting. It's a great way to test you car for leaks and it looks really cool too. 

[stevo_gj]

Great, thanks very much for that input, I'll have to look into the aerodynamics of the car to solve the fume problem. I'm afraid however that the smell the car is producing is less worrying to me than the fuel efficiency, which ultimately will leave me way more out of pocket =x.

 

Today I went to a motorkhana event with a few of the brisbane Z car club members, all very friendly and welcoming guys.  Had a good long chat with them about what possible things I could do to the Zed to fix the other problems.

 

According to them, the best thing I can do within my means is to convert the triple carbs to EFI, and replace the current cam with a standard one. They believe that doing so will greatly improve fuel efficiency and driveability. There was also some talk about lowering the compression, as I am not really keen on buying high octane fuel for a daily driver. What are the thoughts of this forum on this solution? Remember that lowering the power doesn't concern me. 

 

Thanks again guys

[Glen]

Hi steve, i think your best option would be to dyno that current setup and then take that motor out and sell it complete with the tripples. Then your best bet would be to buy a L28 with efi and get it freshened up. I would think you would probably fetch around $2-$2500 depending on dyno figures for the current motor. By the time you buy and freshen up a EFI L28 you should still have lots of change.

[modular9]

funny this thread coming up.

 

Ok i have run dual su's and triple carbs. on a l24 . I also daily drive my zed from indooropilly to kelvin grove in brisbane  and back . About 17 km all up and it takes during rush hour about 1 hour  - 1  1/4 hours. Triple dellortos fluffed and chuffed up quite a bit. However i think some of that was due to the engine.

When i got my triples tuned, the guy down at brisbane turbo and tuning ( woolongabba for you brisbane people ) said that the triples should be fine in traffic though exxy on the fuel. There is a really good thread on here with some of the settings for dellortos that toecutter has done. He also is running dellortos . I was also running lower jets than what was on there after a few days tweaking. SU's back on now. I think webers are around the same sort of settings.

 

What i am going to do ( once I've built the l28 and installed it ) is run the su's for 500 k or so and then drop the dellortos on it. Then if they arent right, and I need daily driver sensibility but with a little tunability,  going Megasquirt/Haltech  + efi and/maybe/possibly decompressing the engine and turbo. Or ITB's N/A...

 

Not really helpful for you but buy deusex's car. Tis a mighty fine car.

[stevo_gj]

Hi steve, i think your best option would be to dyno that current setup and then take that motor out and sell it complete with the tripples. Then your best bet would be to buy a L28 with efi and get it freshened up. I would think you would probably fetch around $2-$2500 depending on dyno figures for the current motor. By the time you buy and freshen up a EFI L28 you should still have lots of change.

 

That sounds like a good option, I will have to look into that. However I am no engine expert, and I will be paying for labor on all these things which will probably cost a fair amount. But getting a different engine is certainly an option, thanks

 

What do you think about replacing the cam with a stock one and replacing the carbys with EFI as a solution? Do you see any benefits or problems with doing so, compared to replacing the engine?

 

Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it 

[yellazed]

stevo_gj:

 

Does it HAVE to be that particular Z?  I know it was probably 'love at first sight' but it sounds like a lot of trouble and expense to go to when you might find a well preserved/restored stockie that will be just as nice and be the daily driver you seek.

 

Hang in there, I'm sure there is at least one other for sale out there, even interstate.

 

My 2c.

 

 

 

[Lynton]

There is a very simple answer to your dilemma of a daily driver.

 

Go out and buy a really good 280ZX, space, good ride, power steering, windows, detachable targa roof for queensland sun, electric mirrors, electronic ignition, fuel injected L28 makes driving in Brissy simple, disc brakes front and rear, back seat for the laptop and the dog, airconditioning, a truly understated sibling of the Zed family, look out for rust though but absolutely  unbeatable value for money, then later when your ready, pull it all down and transplant into your 260Z or because the car will grow on you from day one you will wonder why they are so cheap.........fantastic bang for your buck and I reckon you will be converted to a 280zx driver!!

Lynton

[Glen]

Hi steve, i think your best option would be to dyno that current setup and then take that motor out and sell it complete with the tripples. Then your best bet would be to buy a L28 with efi and get it freshened up. I would think you would probably fetch around $2-$2500 depending on dyno figures for the current motor. By the time you buy and freshen up a EFI L28 you should still have lots of change.

 

That sounds like a good option, I will have to look into that. However I am no engine expert, and I will be paying for labor on all these things which will probably cost a fair amount. But getting a different engine is certainly an option, thanks

 

What do you think about replacing the cam with a stock one and replacing the carbys with EFI as a solution? Do you see any benefits or problems with doing so, compared to replacing the engine?

 

Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it 

I think at the end of the day you might find yourself with more problems trying to strip the motor back. Lets say the you drop the carbies off and drop in a stock cam. You still have a high compression motor with head work that a stock ecu might not know how to manage it fuel wise. 280 ecu is old compared to todays stock ecu's. This is just in theory but when you start paying some one in labour to do the efi, cam and de-compress the motor thats going to cost you a pretty penny. I would say more than paying some one to do a engine swap. The swap is very simple for someone with experience in Z's. look to pay around $500 to do the swap, I wouldnt pay anymore for a 1-2 days work. Dont be afraid of swapping motors it isnt a big job and is a lot less work than pulling a motor apart. Again if you cant do it yourself source a realible mechanic through your Z club that can be trusted. If you went with plan A the tripple's you would get some money for but the cam i personally would not buy it but thats just me. I cant see why you couldnt fetch $2000 or $2500  for the complete motor but you might have to wait a little. What ever you decide it is going to be a really nice Z thats for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

[stevo_gj]

 

I think at the end of the day you might find yourself with more problems trying to strip the motor back. Lets say the you drop the carbies off and drop in a stock cam. You still have a high compression motor with head work that a stock ecu might not know how to manage it fuel wise. 280 ecu is old compared to todays stock ecu's. This is just in theory but when you start paying some one in labour to do the efi, cam and de-compress the motor thats going to cost you a pretty penny. I would say more than paying some one to do a engine swap. The swap is very simple for someone with experience in Z's. look to pay around $500 to do the swap, I wouldnt pay anymore for a 1-2 days work. Dont be afraid of swapping motors it isnt a big job and is a lot less work than pulling a motor apart. Again if you cant do it yourself source a realible mechanic through your Z club that can be trusted. If you went with plan A the tripple's you would get some money for but the cam i personally would not buy it but thats just me. I cant see why you couldnt fetch $2000 or $2500  for the complete motor but you might have to wait a little. What ever you decide it is going to be a really nice Z thats for sure

 

 

Excellent, thanks very much moonstone that is very helpful! I have gotten off the phone to my mechanic and one of the guys in the club and the club member got an auto electrician to wire up his EFI for about 1000 after he installed all the other parts like ECU harness injectors himself. I didn't talk to him about the ECU though, so I'll have to have a chat to him about that. My car mechanic, not a huge Z fan, suggested buying a Nissan Patrol engine, the single carby L28, dropping that one in and selling off the old engine. (or not and keep in the shed for a future conversion when i can afford it ) He said he would charge 200-300 for that job so I would end up paying that plus the cost of the engine, (1-2K?).

 

So my options are:

 

Attempt to convert the 2.9L L28 back to EFI keeping high compression and putting a standard cam back on: Dues Ex just replied to my email and said that the conversion was absolutely possible I just need to buy the wiring harness, surge tank, fuel pump, ECU, manifold etc. Probably looking at 1000 for auto electrician, approx 400 on the parts (car club member said he could sell me almost all of them). I would install almost all of it with help from that club member and then send it off to be wired up. Risk is that I'm not sure the conversion will sit well with all the parts, like the ECU. Cost : $1500-2000

 

-or-

 

Buy an L28 (apparently between 300 for a 2nd hand one and a LOT for a reconditioned one) from a club member off a 280zx, buy all parts and get mechanic to install then auto electrician to wire up. Probably end up spending a bit over 2K (1000 for wiring, cost of engine + parts, cost of mechanic) Cost: $ 1700-2400

 

-or-

 

Buy an L28 from a nissan patrol, drop it in and dont worry about having to modify much. Cost would be 1000-2000 for engine, 200-300 for mechanic to put together. Cost : $1200-2200

 

I'm just guesstimating these numbers, but at least I now know what my options are and have an idea what its going to cost me when I go look at the car.

[Glen]

You r mechanics option one sounds the best and also the  most simple, you will still get good fuel economy out of that and is a simple swap. He sounds like a good honest mechanic. I would not use that same auto elec either considering what was already done..... Also if you are serious buy a old l28 $300 and for $1000 get your mechanic to freshen it up, gives you satisfaction that $1000 has actually gone into the motor and has been done buy someone that knows there stuff. Buying secondhand efi gear can also lead to more problems aswell because after all it is secondhand. Just so you know go and price some l28 injectors because theres a good chance you might need some.

[620Z]

The way I see it Stevo is that you are going to spend around 2,000- or more to get fuel injection mainly to save money on petrol. (Instalation, parts, wiring, tuning and problems) Whilst I am all for injection and driveability I reckon it would be cheaper to get a Zed with twin carby's make sure it is tuned correctly. It will take you 4-5 years of filling your tank to recoup the 2K (additional fuel used due to poor economy) and by that time you will be working have plenty of cash and really know what you want from your Zed. In the mean time you will have saved a lot of mucking around and money. I only say this because it sounds like you are on a tight budget and not looking for heaps of power from the Zed at this point.

[ZD44TT]

demoding?..........dam.............L28 on triples so not fun in traffic but for those moments your out for a fang you'd be in heaven. : )

[tbscobraZ]

Best idea problaby the EFI route maybe do what moonstone said with this, it's only a 2.4L and with EFI you would probably get the most effientcy.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DATSUN-Z-240Z-280Z-L24-E31-REBUILT-ENGINE-MOTOR-HEAD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em14Q2el1318QQhashZitem160265110790QQitemZ160265110790

[tbscobraZ]

This would be a bit cheaper keep in mind its american dollars and in america so shipping might be a fair bit. [ Did anyone see the 2.9L and 3.1L he has for sale WOW]

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-240Z-Engine-and-transmission-E31-Series-1-Clean_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em14Q2el1318QQhashZitem380048926537QQitemZ380048926537

[C.A.R.]

ZOMG Holy Tread resurrection Batman!

 

Why are you bringing up an old post when stevo_gj' has bought a different Zed?

 

[tbscobraZ]

Sorry didn't see the date. I usually look at and post in all the unread ones and I get though all of the so when this came up then i thought it was new my bad.