Datsun's not so tough anymore

[CroS13]

In my opinion the people who are bagging out 350 and 370Zs, have not driven or spent time with them and have a totally inflated idea of how fast stock 240Zs were at the time.

 

I know this was also directed at my comments. Firstly, i said that i personally don't think much of the 350z and 370z, just my humble opinion with my experiences with them.

 

I raced a few 350z's at WSID back in the day when i had a SR20 Turbo S13 (about 8 years ago) and i beat them. I just had 150kw at the wheels too ( boost, fuel pump, intercooler.)

 

I also raced a few at marulan, at oran park and at Eastern creek, and i was faster than them too (once again, around 6-8 years ago)

 

I understand that this is no real measure to compare performance, and im well aware that there are  ALOT of other variables regarding this (modifications, driver experience etc etc) but these were just MY experiences racing against 350z's.

 

And in my head i would think (a new 40-60k car cant keep up with my lightly modded 16 year old car with 160 thousand on the clock). Once again, not a fair comparison i know, but that opinion has kind of stuck with me since then, even though Ive never driven or raced a 370z, i guess for me, mentally its guilt by association due my my experiences with the 350z.

 

Standard 240Zs back in the day did not blow everything off the road and like any modern car.

 

Even modern cars aren't like that. I bought my S15 200sx stock standard 7-8 years ago, and im the first to admit it was quite pathetic in the performance department straight off the showroom floor.

 

As for people that are bagging out R35s, sure the styling might not be to your liking and as an all out circuit racer there might be better things, but as a STANDARD off the show room performance car they are nuts for their price tag! Do Nissan really car about the few people turning them into race cars? I'm thinking not really. Rudolf and 260DET have you been for a ride in one?

 

Ill admit im wrong in thinking here, but its just how i am. No ive never been in one, however, i never said it was crap. I acknowledge the car for what it is, and the performance it has.

 

I just dont like how it was built to cater to the US market, i understand that it must be done, as they are a HUGE market for them, and rightly so, they made a killing.

 

Its just stupid me being me, in my head thinking that Nissan is a sell out. I know its wrong to think like that, and i don't know what would have made the R35 acceptable in my eyes, It might be because they went to a larger displacement engine and made it a V instead of inline, makes me feel its all to cater to the US. That they should have stayed true to honor their heritage, and kept i dont know, maybe a 4th generation RB26, who knows, just how i think, i cant help it.

 

Actually i know with emissions rules and regs it probably would have been impossible to re- engineer the RB26...

 

Rudolf.

 

 

 

[d3c0y]

 

Firstly I like 280ZX 2 seaters so I guess i'm already odd haha.

 

 

The comments didn't really stir me up and I had the same negative opinion of them until I owned one. Deus Ex drove mine, going into it with the same opinion and ended up buying a S3 with the VQ35HR. I think there are a lot of people on the Internet that throw opinions out there based on nothing more then what they have read or watched. I also feel it's easy to loose the writer's context, when regurgitating other people's opinions and this was more my point.

 

 

Talking about racing opens up such a mine field too; allowed modifications, classes, rules etc. A big one is that the Zed chassis is not the international flagship anymore and Nissan is pushing their GT-R, logically. There are so many peripheral factors here that I don't care to go into as to why, but a lot has to do with factory backing and as Yo-Yo mentioned Nissan's racing budget.

 

 

I've seen quite a lot of early 911s kicking ass in group Sc against zeds locally too, which of course comes back to the rules. I'm not denying they didn't win back in the day, but again you have to know what the context was of these wins. Everyone is going to love an under dog and make headlines about it.

 

 

Rudolf, I honestly wasn't singling you out, but that kind of guilt by association is what i'm talking about. Having done a couple of track days myself, I think club level racing can be a poor judge of a cars performance. If we are counting that, I have beaten a 996 Carrera, E92 M3, 1M and with a new set of tyres, would be around 1 second off a 996 GT3 clubsport in my Z33. I agree the S13 is not a fair comparison either because it doesn't take into account so many factors that it's pretty much irrelevant again without the context.

 

 

The RB26 isn't that much of an amazing motor, again its just Hype. Nissan ditched the RB in favor of racing with V's years ago, like back in the 90s.

The whole receipt for the R35's success, pretty much meant they had to use a V-motor in my opinion. It would have no hope of keeping up with turbo 3.8L Porsches with a smaller motor either. All modern sports cars are well into the 3.0L capacities now. The fact of the matter is the RB26 would have just been too slow.

 

What is so american about the R35?

[260DET]

All good points, cars can be a very personal thing so most comments about them are going to be subjective. On the 370Z, Lee Falkner had a race only one which I understand took a fair bit of work to get the handling right, he used to run it at the Morgan Park sprints. It was pretty fast, he used to mix it with the slower Cobras quite effectively.

 

On the subject of engines, where Nissan lost an opportunity was with their first V6, the VG30E. A pretty hopeless engine without NISMO heads which transformed them but none of the Z31's had those heads as standard which they should have had or at least they should have been an option of some sort. The V6 in the Z32 was a good engine but just too heavy, particularly in NA form. I had a VG30DET in my 280ZX, the replacement 6 litre LS NA engine is lighter, a lot simpler, has a lower C of G and will produce more power with a few modest mods than the turbo.

 

So it's from that perspective that I am disappointed in what Nissan have done post S30, even placing the GTR above the 370Z as the Nissan flagship makes little sense to me. Porsche have several versions of their 911 thing, Nissan could have done the same with the 370Z including a GTR spec one. And forget about the GTR altogether.

[d3c0y]

The GTR has always been the flagship model in Japan though and their "race inspired" offering. Due to it becoming such a cult car from Gran Tursimo, racing and Japanese pop culture, it became popular world wide and a no brainer for Nissan to sell the latest one world wide ecconomics of Nissan itself aside. 

 

 

Again with the VG30DETT, from what i gather the registration rules in Japan made large capacity V8s uneconomical. 2JZ, 20B, twin turbo magna motor in the 3000GT etc. No large capacity alloy V8s among them until the early 2000s with VKs etc.

 

 

It all comes back to the parameters these cars had to be designed in.

 

 

I regard to the different versions, sure you could have a 370Z GT3, but will people pay $100k+ for a Zed? It was what everyone complained about the 300ZX, too expensive too complex and you run into the 911/Cayman issue of giving the lower model too much performance. Would you yourself even buy one of these track honed GT3 Zs if they built one to what you think it should be?

 

 

 

I just saw this in my facebook feed and had to laugh. GTR haters read this please: http://jalopnik.com/i-tracked-a-nissan-gt-r-and-i-get-it-now-1657159001

 

[PB260Z]

Could always be worse, could have a super tough tree

 

[260DET]

"I just saw this in my facebook feed and had to laugh. GTR haters read this please: http://jalopnik.com/i-tracked-a-nissan-gt-r-and-i-get-it-now-1657159001"

 

Let's be clear, I'm not a GTR hater, have not even driven one. But I can't see the point of it when Nissan have a perfectly good sports car already, the 370Z. Which, as already mentioned, could be developed much further to include several different versions, at least one of which should be damn quick by any standards.

 

As to that Jalopnik road test, it's a bit surprising to see that the GTR is not very daily driver friendly. One of the criteria for a top modern high performance car is that it should not only be daily driver friendly but also fun, just being suitable for a race track no matter how good a car is for that purpose is simply not acceptable these days. In fact one of the qualities that such a car should have is a dual personality, just like the most popular high performance cars do.

 

I've driven a race orientated car on the road, just like the GTR seems to be it's no fun, it's tiring and it's race track performance is irrelevant. Sorry, the GTR in that test does not seem to be up there with the others that should be it's peers.