Is this a 240Z or 260Z?

[Brabham]

Hi guys,

 

just wanted to confirm this was a 240Z. Are the taillights the way to tell from the rear ie, there is no seperate reversing light. Cheers

[Retro Z]

Quite hard to see but going from the pic of the dash id say its a 240z. 260z dash are not as curvy and centre gauges aren't as pronounced

[dat240z]

Its a 240z. The tailights are a little narrower and the dash guages dont "pop up and out" like the 260z...

 

 

[Zedman240®]

I think that was the 240Z that crashed at Le Mans and killed its driver.. sad story.

[gav240z]

Definitely a 240z from the rear lights - they pop out a bit, 260z ones are recessed. Of course it could also be a Fairlady Z in which case it would be neither a 240z or 260z.

 

Great photo - where did you find it? Notice those wheels and the Gnose!

[Brabham]

Cheers guys

 

Gav found it online a while ago while researching zeds that ran at Le Mans - it ran in 75 and 76, and sadly Dimitri is right.

 

It is my favorite zed - love the color scheme, the works Le Mans bodykit and the wheels - I am chasing a set although incredibly rare. They were works wheels with the fronts being 15" x 10" and the rears 15" x 12.5"!!! This necessitated the super wide flares.

 

Thinking of building a sports sedan zed with similar bodykit and wheels although RB30/26 powered. Now know that I am looking out for a decent 240Z shell (as opposed to 260Z) as a base. Also hoping that I may be able to run the same car in marque sports and possibly time attack. I am sure it would qualify for time attack, only question is whether it would comply with both sports sedans and marque sports - otherwise would prob just go for sports sedans.

 

Cheers.  

[gav240z]

You could also use a 260z 2 seater shell and retro fit 240z rear lights. That's what Sulio did with his 260z featured here:

http://www.viczcar.com/member-rides/sulios-1974-datsun-260z

 

Sulio preferred the 240z rear lights but was too cheap to buy a 240z , nah I actually prefer the 240z rear lights myself just a bit nicer in my opinion the way they stick out a bit and the reverse light is in the cluster itself as opposed to separate.

[PZG302]

 

Thinking of building a sports sedan zed with similar bodykit and wheels although RB30/26 powered. Now know that I am looking out for a decent 240Z shell (as opposed to 260Z) as a base. Also hoping that I may be able to run the same car in marque sports and possibly time attack. I am sure it would qualify for time attack, only question is whether it would comply with both sports sedans and marque sports - otherwise would prob just go for sports sedans.

 

Cheers.

 

Can't run a 240Z as a sports sedan as it is not a touring car. The only Z's eligible to run as sports sedans are:

260 2+2

280ZX 2+2

Z32 300ZX with chev engine only

 

All the rest must run as sports cars in racing.

The planned mods you have will make the car ineligible for Marque or Prod sports cars, CAMS Groups 2B and 2F, but again for sprints anything goes.

 

Before you spend dollars, read the rules for what you want to run in. The CAMS manual is available free on online with all the racing categories laid out.

[Brabham]

Thanks PZG. I have had a look at the rules, how can people run a Corvette in sports sedans then as it is only a 2-seater sports car? Are you aware of any category I could circuit race a 240Z with the RB in it? Will take another look at the sports sedan rules as the Corvette seems to be an exception.

 

Cheers.

[PZG302]

Brabham,

 

The Corvettes that are running in Sports Sedans are built to Transam rules. The category was opened up a few years ago to let New Zealand Transam cars come over here and play to bolster numbers in the National Sports Sedan Chamionship, and our cars to head over to the East Islands to play in their championship to help their numbers. The Transam cars are similar in performance, but built differently, no space frames like sport sedans and are more resticted with what they can do in terms of mechanicals. They are also cheaper to buy from the States as competetive cars than buid a new sports sedan here.

 

If you are serious about getting into door to door racing with the Zed, your best bet is to get the specs from CAMS for Group SC and build the car for historics. An RB engined Zed is only eligible for Group 2A sports cars at the moment, and then you will up against prototypes. This avenue may also be shut down so that only true prototype cars will be able to be raced in 2A, ie radicals and so on. Then you have the problem of finding somewhere to race. You may, and it is a very big may, get a run in a 2B Marque sports race as an invited car, but you still be at the back of the field with the old GT Chamionship cars that are no longer eligible for their national series stepping down to state level. Also if things go wrong, and I am a great believer that if you aren't prepared to write your car off you shouldn't have it on  the track, a Zed is a pain in the arse to rebuilld with bits getting harder to find and also the expense of the reapair work. My new S14 from scratch will be cheaper than fixing my old Zed.

 

If you want to play in Marque Sports or Prod sports, get a Group 2F MX5, a front running car can be bought for around $15k and if you can drive you go very close to winning the championship. It will be cheap to run as well, just tyres and a freshen up for the motor each year, or less if yoou play mid pack for even cheaper. And if you bin it a complete car can be bought for around $3k. it will teach you a hell of a lot about car set up, driving and racecraft, plus the racing is good and generally clean and as well as sprint type races as per usual at state rounds they have a one hour enduro series run in the three eastern states over four rounds.

 

Another category to look at would be Under 2 litre in IPRA. A 1200 coupw with na SR20 would be a good car, or for real cheap a well sorted Suzuki GTI is a ball to race.

Matt

[Brabham]

Cheers Matt for the info. The Rb engined zed has been a dream of mine for a while now, so I will build it regardless, I will look at categories 2A and 2B, I don't mind being at the back of the field as I just want to build a nice looking zed with an RB in it, and I have accepted that it may get written off in the process if I race it. If I can't put it in any categories, I may end up building it as a road car and just take it to track days, or if it gets a full cage which it will prob need, I will just take it out for private practice. Will read up on the 2A and 2B rules (are there any restrictions on boost?).

 

Thinking about getting either a go-kart or a historic formula vee as the relatively cheap entry level cars at the moment to get some experience up, the zed is a long term project which I want to build regardless If I can't run it in a class, I will sit there and look at it because that zed with the works Le Mans bodykit is one of the best looking cars I have seen.

 

Good luck with your new project car too:)

 

Cheers

[PZG302]

Notwithstanding having a RB engine, the car won't comply with 2B if you turbo it. For Groups 2B and 2F any turbo cars must be as they left the factory in terms of turbo, inlet and exhaust manifolds. Boost may be monitored.

 

Realistically, if are going to build an RB powered Zed you will only be able to run it at sprint events. The closest you will get to door to door racing in it would be the six hour regularity relay at PI.

 

Personally, if an RB powered Zed is going to happen no matter what, build it into a nice road car and buy either the go-kart or historic formula Vee to go racing in. You could even fit the Zed with a tow bar and use it to tow either as the Formula Vee will fit in a box trailer. Doing this will save you monney and heartache in the short, medium and long term.

 

[Brabham]

Hi Matt,

 

so the 240Z with turbo RB may fit into group 2A sports cars as you said? Are there any restrictions on boost etc here? I think that I may have to end up putting a full cage into it due to the amount of power I want from the RB, as well as seam welding it and reinforcing the chassis with gussets etc so the thing doesn't twist itself. The full cage would hopefully stop this and I would have to put a lot of additional bracing into it.

 

Are they proposing to change the rules for 2A so it is only radicals etc? If it doesn't fit into any remaining classes then I could well put it in regularity 6 hour runs and so on, although would be faced with the problem of a large speed differential there which can lead to accidents. Sounds like I may just have to build the thing aiming to get into 2A and if that doesn't work just take it to private practice days or regularity as I am determined to build the thing no matter what. In the meantime will prob get either a kart or a vee to play around in.

 

Is there any chance it could run as an invited car in sports sedans? Will familiarise myself with the 2A rules as well. Do the rules for CAMS certified full roll cages change between these categories or will it comply to all categories? The cage will obviously be pretty extensive.

 

Cheers.

[PZG302]

Brabham,

The cheapest way to build the car you want is to build the Zed for sprints and as a weekender. If you want to go door to door racing, buy a ready built car for that, Historic Formula Vee would be a great choice, cheap car, cheap running costs and little risk in binning the car. They are driven flat out just about everywhere at any track and plenty of meetings.

 

The biggest problem in building the Zed for 2A racing is that state events are not common, you will be running with cars that will do EC in low 1'30"s and that's the slow cars. and you wont see them. And that's if your entry is accepted. At the usual events they run at you are looking at National meetings and entry fees are steep, last time I looked at running anational meeting it was over a grand for a couple of races. State rounds are dear enough at around $400 for two races and qually, all up about 50km of driving.

 

I'm not trying to put you off racing, but trying to steer you in the best bang for your buck. Before you really commit to building a race car go to a few state meetings and see who is running what and find the category that will match your budget. Talk to the guys who are running, at state meetinngs everytinng is open and you get anywhere and all the guuys are very approachable.

 

If you want some names to talk to in different categories, eg Historics, Prod Sports, IPRA and so on I can let you know who would be good to talk to. Do your sums and work out what you can afford and from there it is easy to progress.

 

In my case, I am building the S14 to Prodsport because I have run in Pordsports for a while and looking at the rules, an S14 also qualifies for IPRA as it was not FIA homologated, prodsports allows me to builld the car cheaper as I have more freedoms in body work and suspension, eg IPRA all steel panels, 2B hanging panels free material and flares allowed. IPRA have to run a set wheel size with a control tyre, Prodsports depending on weight, and for what I am aiming for I will be limited to 40" of wheels, so 10"s all round or staggered fitment and diameter free so I will be runing 2nd hand Porsche cup tyres or GT3 tyres on either 18" or 19" rims and wets will mot likely be 18"s.

 

In my opinion the cheapest racing car will either be a Formula Vee or MX5 buillt to 2F rules for door to door racing. The other advantage of building a car to suit the rules is that other events are open to you like the state and national hill climb championships or other feature events, up here in queensland that would include the Historic Noosa Hillclimb or the Cootha Classic if it gets up again. With the historic car you get thhe opportunity to race at some of the best events in the country if you want to do interstate meetings like Phillip Island and the Tasman meeting with the F5000's.

 

Have a good hard look at your budget to race after you have built the car before you commit to buildinng it. As an example I look at about $1000 for a local meeting and that is with nothing going bang and at leaat double that for an enduro round or an interstate round plus a freshen up of the motor every one to two seasons depending on the number of events and also getting a full complement of spares and also the throw away components like brakes, shock and tyres to consider.

 

To do what I want to do I am looking at about $15k to get the S14 built, another $15k to get all the other bits, extra wheels spare motor and gearbox plus body parts like panels and lights, basically a second car in bits in my garage shelving plus $5k to do the sprint series and then for the Qld round of the Enduro series about $1.5k and about $2k for an interstate round. And that is cheap racinng and I will be mid pack in the enduros, and depending on the cars running on the day for the sprint series I would expect to get into the top 5 if I'm lucky and drive well.

 

Hope this is of somme help. If you want any more info PM me for a phone number for a chat.

[dat2kman]

Just buy a ready built frint running car.

Simple easy no fuss.

Develop it a little more, maybe get a Peter/Les engine done.

They will not allow a rb turbo engined Z into group 2/ marque sports.

 

The only pissible one would be the USA spec 280ZXT that was L28 with old school technology turbo, and that is the problem.

 

Why not give Historic Group S or T a go. I have two cars for sale ready to race, and can supply a standard unprepoed car fully elegible for Sb, that will, once finished, have the ptential to win Sb class, in the right hands.

 

Or if you are very set on all out Sports Sedans, i have one of those for sale too.

It won the Qld Sports Sedan Championship, and is fully sorted comes with plenty spare fairly fresh rubber, fresh engine, and about to be rekitted brakes.

 

What budget are you allowing to fully prep a RB engined Z that can only be used in lap dashes and club level supersprints?

18

25

40

80 k

I could have what you can use at each of these price points, but they are/would be full circuit race cars, all in the genteel Historic discipline.

 

[Brabham]

Cheers Matt and Jason, thanks for the info.

 

I am a regular visitor at the historics (albeit spectator) have come down to PI too and have chatted to you a few times too Jason, I like your 280 and the sports 2000 . I have considered running in historics (am still considering it in the case of the vee) as well as in a 125cc Rotax cart, and I will more than likely get into a vee or the kart in the near future and work my way up from there. I agree that historic zeds (240-260Z) are great value, especially if you buy a running car where someone else has done all the work, am pretty familiar with Sc zeds and the rules they run under as well as all historic classes. Love the F5000s too, those are awesome, saw them at the Tasman and PI last year, and will come down to PI again next year for the historics.

 

Now know a fair few people who run in historics so can chat to them about what is required, however thanks for the kind offer of a chat on the phone. I intend to build the RB powered zed in the background and probably get something cheap to run around in - either the kart or the vee. A complete and sorted Sc zed is out of the budget sadly and will have to build up the 240 as I go along and complete it in stages as I save up for each part (can do most of the panel and paint myself fortunately). I accept that it is unlikely to fit into any common category, so club level sprints, trackdays and private practice will be the only place where I get to use it.

 

I have had a look at some vees and 125cc carts ready to run, so will try to get into one of these categories as they are not overly expensive. Will work on the 240 as a background project.

 

I will more than likely be down at PI and the F1 in March, so will catch up with all the zed people down there (Jason were you going to make it this year?) Will keep you updated on the status of the zed project.

 

Cheers for all the info guys, it really is a shame that there is no category that such a zed would fit into though, not to worry though.

 

Thanks guys.