Metalic paint colour difference

[peter t]

What to do when you paint in metalic and the panels are a different colour when not painted the same time. Painted the body some time back and now have painted the guards from the same tin but the colour is totally different. Preped the same and everything but the colour is noticeably different. Quite pis@@@ off. Will have to repaint the whole car as some stage but not now. Will never paint metalic again. Something to be said for plain colour.

[reverendzed]

I'm sorry to hear that Pete.  There could be a variety of reason and could be any one or combo of things. A) (please don't flame me) often we don't make sure that we have stirred the paitn throughly either first time or second time around which causes improper distribution of fleck. B) Your spray gun set up inc air delivery C) humidity and temperature, causing paint to dry/not dry at same rates. D) improper thinning technique or air having gotten to the paint in tin which can cause color concentration  E) application, in other words you applied it in a different pattern. F) different color primer underneath.

 

It could be any or none of the above just rying to provide some thoughts out of my limited experience.

Rev.

[maddos]

I've had dramas with my metallic but have way more variables than that.

My car was painted in a 2 pac and i recently painted my spoiler with acrylic and didn't go any where near matching.

Of course I had the problem of two different places mixing the paint to the formula specified.

Was asking a guy who does touch up repairs for a living about it and he said he had problems matching

when you were painting fibre glass to match colour on metal. Can't see how it make any difference as I used

same undercoat on both types of paint.

I know what you mean it's bloody annoying and I'm thinking of giving mine another coat this weekend with the

small amount I have left from my original tin of paint and hope I get a better match.

 

[herrods]

matching paint,regardless of the colour/type is  the bane of our existence.

 

it could even be down to fade in the originally laid paint, sitting inthe sun or inder lightx or in a bit of heat etc etcand the colour being changed because of that, different type of thinner, or different amnount (down to +/_/- 5ml ish could have made the difference.

 

even when matching, the body shops will blend the paint up into the next set of panels,o that the eye cannot pick up differences, and even this is a sketchy way of getting things to match up correctly.

 

it could even be the amount of time it took the clear to go off,or the amout of tack in the paint between clear coats, whether you shook the gun 3 times or 2 timee atr the beginning

 

its a dark art painting.

[Zedman240®]

A well experienced spray painter once told me when painting metallics, even small differences in air pressure can vary the shade; that's why when painting a metallic, do the whole car at once! I learned that with my first 260Z when we painted that in that Datsun light blue metallic 903?

[peter t]

Thanks for the info. I have figured it out. I will paint the bonnet red then no one will notice the guards.  Have also penciled  in my diary {2020} to repaint  the whole car.

[Six_Shooter]

So there will be a 3rd colour?

 

This is why I won't be going metallic again with any of my vehicles, at least none with more than a few square feet of body area.

[peter t]

We have now named our Z "Joseph" I bought a eye patch today and it works wonders. Put on the left eye until you get to the door than put it on the right eye. Bingo the car looks great. At least I can joke about it. I can now see it in a plain BRG with silver stripes but for now the aim is to get it on the road and go for a drive, the repaint can wait until I retire or really get the shits with it.

[maddos]

Gave my spoiler a coat this arvo with original paint and looks much closer.

Thinking descrepancies in paint mix from different shops probably my problem.

Only problem now is spoiler looks way shinier than rest of car

[peter t]

I may have figured it out. After painting the body I found the pick up in the spray gun was pointing to the rear. I turned it around to face the front which may be picking up more metalic when painting the guards. I am going to turn it back and try again. I don't know if this makes sense but due to the angle of the gun when spraying I assume more metalic would be in that area. Let you know how I go. :-\

[Ledge]

Hi

The only way you will get a metallic paint job to look the same over the entire car is to bolt it all together

and paint it all at the same time, Go the whole way along the side of the car in one go , Don't paint rear 1/4 then door then front guard.

The main problem with the colour being different when you paint the car separately is the thickness of the paint. I hear you say but i put 3

coats on everything but even a few microns different depth of paint will make the metallic particles sit differently. Then there is the angle of the gun to panel,

It goes on and on.  You must paint the car as a whole.

Paint all the openings and under the boot bonnet etc assemble the car then colour the outside, Then clear.

 

You should try matching paint these days with 3 layer pearls etc etc. Not fun

 

Regards

Paul

[Sirpent]

Hi all,

 

The simple answer to this thread (Having read all the differing opinions) is as follows.

 

Metalic paints for the better part are a composite of tints which create the color, and actual metalic particals, most of these particals are aluminium based, in some instances other metal types are used.

 

In matching a base metalic color therefore, a number of problems arise, as follows.

 

#1 Paint formula, a production line vehicle, particularly older cars dating back pre 95, have up to 7+ variations out of the factory, ordering paint straight off the formala or color code will in most instances deliver a variance to the original, fords snow white for instance has no less than 6 variations and they are as different as black and white.

 

Solution, you must take a sample of your vehicles actual finish, such as a fuel door to first determine what variance you are looking at against the paint manufacturers color chips and have the color mixed to the closest actual matching chip.

 

#2 Due to the metalic component within the paint, even having a near perfect match to you vehicles color mixed up will not and never will garauntee that the sprayed finish will match an adjacent panel in what is called an "Edge to edge" application. depending on the flow rate of material, how wet i is applied and the applicators actual stroke of the gun ( yes I can see that last line being pasted in replies so have fun) the actual metalic particals will either lay of be suspended in an un-uniform manner to the original finish.

 

Imagine looking at these particals under a microscope, they actually look like rectangular sheets of glass, so depending on how they eventually lay down in the application is the way they will reflect light, sound stupid I know, but this is physics and your eyes at work when looking at the final product, its all about your eyes interpretation of light refractions, simplae as that.

 

If you look at some of the metalic HSV commodores that come out of the HSV skunk works in Clayton, you will sometime notice that the bumper bars look lighter and darker in sunlight from the guards, this is because they are additions to the vehicle and the bars are painted face up on a panel horse rather than face forward as on the vehicle, the result is what I described above, the metalic particles have been layed in an un-natural application process by which the rest of the car had it's paint applied in and therefore the grain of the metalic partlicles runs in an oppossing manner thus causing the light refraction to be different.

 

The only way to actually obtain a uniform color finish if (A) You have obtained the correct color variance and (B) are painting under the correct environmental conditions with regard to humidity and temputure is to do a blend out of the base color.

 

Painting the entire side of a car is a total waste of time and materials.

 

For instance, you have a repair at the rear end of a guard which for some reason was damaged but the door wasnt (Sometimes a misaligned guard can be caved in by a door opening as an example)

 

First, Complete the repair, lets say the repair reaches the lip of the wheel arch, now the color to the bonnet is perfect, the color to the light bucket is perfect, does this mean the entire guard needs to be painted?, of course not, the entire guard needs to be knocked back with 800 grit wet and dry, this should only knock back the clear coat and not mean rubbing through to the base metalic coat, the same should be done to the door from edge to edge.

 

Thereafter application of color should be slow but progressive only over the primed repaired area, this should be done with low pressure mist coats to the point that the primer is no longer visible.

 

After this, the application of paint should be done from an approximate distance of twice the normal distance usually used to paint panels, by holding a posion that is directly diagonal to the repair area, your should be able to pan from left to right with your wrist and allow a mist coat to blend paint across the original finish and the repair area, you DO NOT NEED TO COVER THE ENTIRE GUARD IN COLOR, this process is known as a flick application.

 

Once you have achieved this, then the door and guard have a complete recoat of clear coat applied, this is known as locking up the color.

 

Once unmasked, even a metalic a few shades off the original should leave an almost undetectable finish.

 

If anyone in Metro Melbourne is having problems with something like this and would like a demo and be willing to post pics I would be happy to come around and show the process.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Ledge]

Hi

Sirpent , He isn't talking about a crash repair, He has painted his entire car separately and none of the panels are the same as you would be

well aware will never look right.

As he is more than likely painting this car in a shed not a million dollar booth getting atmospheric conditions correct is extremely hard.

Yes for a crash shop painting the whole side of a car is a waste of paint and when i say paint i mean BASE COAT because either way you need to do every panel that has

had fresh base coat on it  in clear coat again, So if you want to take a punt on not seeing blends then save yourself a couple of litres of colour, Me i would flick the whole side to

guarantee the colour match.

 

Its funny when i see and add on TV and when you buy a new car it only costs an extra $300 for metallic paint, Man when we have to do a metallic car it costs thousands extra, The extra

work involved to do it propally is staggering.

Regards

Paul

[peter t]

Thanks for the input guys. I know where I went wrong by not painting the whole car at once and this is a back yard job but nothing that can not be fixed when funds are available so at the moment it will do. Thanks again.