Intercooler on NA L28

[nizm0zed]

 

You can buy Nos bottles and refills quite legally, trouble is putting/hiding it somewhere!

 

cant paint it red and say its a fire extinguisher???

 

If you are going the nos route on your car, check your local laws.

some states say no bottle or associated plumbing is allowed on a registered street car at all, and i 'think' in qld, you can have the bottle mounted, but not connected.

there are a lot of rumours and misinformation on the legalities of it, best to hear it direct from the horses mouth.

[Scando]

Yes people do use it on the racetrack but just because they use it doesn't mean they are wining.

If you find a race team thats wining on avgas please let me know. I have some free hp for them

 

I use it and I won my class last year and I'm winning again this year    Also won races using it in karts for years before they banned leaded fuels.

 

I must admit I haven't used C16 before.  What's the cost?  The guy that has the lap record in my class for both Tassie tracks used to run Elf 107 and switched to avgas because he got better results.  He runs a 200SX and at Symmons Plains his lap record is the same as what the Gibson GTR's did and we have to run on DOT approved tyres.

[RBZ 260]

Scando looks like you be getting some free HP in your mail 

[waxhead]

I suggest you get try some 98 and toluene running at 25%

Put it on the dyno and do a back to back , i think you will be happy

Personally i dont wish to use a fuel that is designed to be used in very large displacement, low RPM engines at very high altitudes

We also used to run avgas in our karts as well, however you will find that will make a bigger difference in a two stroke than it does on 4 stroke

Im not going to get into an argument on here with you, Clearly you have your views from your experience I have mine own from my own experience

I have tried avagas as a race fuel and found it was not as good as the other blends avaliable to you

 

How is your friend with his 200sx getting past the issue with the leaded fuel stuffing his o2 sensor or are they running a stand alone system that doesnt run one

[RBZ 260]

wax

 

we not going into arguments LOL its just a discussion  obviously we all had bit of play with different jungle juices with same or similar experiences.

 

i got to agree with you with 98+ 20% toluene. its better than avgas. so as c16. but 98 +20% toluene is prob most cost effective out of all the fuels expecialy these days. avgas being a pain to get hold off and wasnt cheap back when u can get it fairly easy. 

 

the short period i used avgas vs BP98, avgas was better but yeah my oxy sensor died shortly after. tried c16 and wow, but wow on the pocket too. last time i bought some was almost 12per liter and that was few years ago.

98+20%tol was lot more cost effective and wont kill oxy sensors.

 

but todays prices of 98 + add the cost of Toluene it adds up quite a bit for a street car used daily. so I detuned and stays on 98...

 

experimentation in fuel gave me that bit more advantage vs cars with more hp than me.

 

same car similar mods but i had stock turbo runing 15psi my mates hks gt3540 runing at 12psi. with pump fuel he would clean me up. once i "cheated" with c16 and tables turned around he was pissed as he though something was wrong with his car but couldnt figure what. it was worth the $$$ seeing his disapointed face.

 

so no arguments. i think discussion was more that avgas was better than 98 but there are alternatives which are better than avgas.

 

all cool 

 

(some say he will lock threads just becuse its raining outside. all we know him by is Lurch) 

 

[waxhead]

Yeah your findings are pretty much the same as mine

I use tolly all the time now when I race anything , or methyl benzine as some companies call it

 

[garvice]

cant paint it red and say its a fire extinguisher???

HA! That would be an interesting event if someone ever needed to use the extinguisher.

[Scando]

I suggest you get try some 98 and toluene running at 25%

Put it on the dyno and do a back to back , i think you will be happy

 

Can't do.  Our fuel has to comply with the definition of commercial fuel or race fuel under schedule G of the CAMS manual.  What motorsport do you do where you're allowed to run blends?  I thought it was banned across pretty much everything controlled by CAMS?

 

I'm not saying avgas is the be all and end all of fuels.  If you can find me something better for $3 a litre that is legal for me to run then I'd be keen to hear more about it.

 

How is your friend with his 200sx getting past the issue with the leaded fuel stuffing his o2 sensor or are they running a stand alone system that doesnt run one

 

I don't know that much about the car but I know the standard management is long gone.  I believe he's running a Motec.

[waxhead]

Just because the rules say you cant do something doesnt actually mean it never happens

 

But if you take a sniff of the modern race fuels you can smell the touelene

 

I also have a friend that works for marsden point refinery in New Zealand , we got the chemists there to break down "trick" brand racing fuel that was allowed, once we knew what was in it we could make it and it passed all tests

 

[bluerat]

Wax and RbZ, would you say that 98 and 20-25% Toluene would be close to a straight replacement for avgas, that is, would you run the same compression ratio and dist advance? I'm not far of dynoing a new motor (L20 not 28) and am pretty keen to try both? what do you pay for 20 ltrs of toluene?

 

It's strange, the guy Scando's talking about is very switched on, very, very experienced and conected. He is not short of resourses, if you get my drift, he owns his own engine and chassis dyno's! nine bucks a litre would'nt faze him at all, must be something in it?

 

I better make sure I'm the scrutineer with the fuel test kit, LOL....

 

[bluerat]

Talking about painting your blue bottles red.....did you know the works Lancia Delta's in group A WRC rallying used to change there fire exting's after every stage, only when the Celica's were getting close though....and have you heard of a 'Sneaky Pete' NOS bottle, same diameter as the inside of roll cage tube or air (gas) tight roll cages??

[waxhead]

I think its need to be made clear we are all talking in own experiences here

What some person may find is different to what some one else finds , so it would seem

I used to use avgas then tried mixing it with normal fuel.

It showed up as reduced lap times and so i went down a different tract and got 98 and mixed it with toulene it showed up as better lap times and a cooler running engine.

It made more torque in the mid range over the avgas. This was while we were racing karts , from there i went and started racing jetskis and also started building race engine for other people

Alot of these people were using avgas as well while i was running toluene blend and i was beating them out of the gate every time.

I then started work as a automotive tutor back in new zealand. We had a dyno there so i took the time to dyno the test mule car we had. using all three combos as well as normal fuel.

The toluene showed up as stronger in the midrange, it makes sense as this is what the f1 cars were running in the turbo days at up to 85%.

I have used it ever since in all forms of motorsport i have been involved in except for the small time > used c16 that nearly sent me broke.

 

 

The price i pay for it is $60 for 20 litres but bear in mind I am mixing it and so 20 litres goes alot further

[RBZ 260]

Blurat on my car sr20det with avgas left evrythign as it was. the ecu will readjust itself after few kms. so runs crapish for a while than it improves.so on older type cars and carbs im assuming u need to check the timing, plugs and improve compression to get most advantage out of it.

 

 

with c16 i adjusted bit more timing 1deg from memory and slightly more boost. still max 16psi. my norm was 1bar at 14.7psi.

 

after that experiment i ran 98 with 20% tol mix till price of petrol started going through the roof. so boost was reduced from 16psi down to 14.7 and ran 98 from than on. also few changes were made afterwards like bigger intercooler so it was safe to run the higher boost. but never felt the way it did with 98/20%tol mix nor the C16.

 

C16 i only used it once and at back than at 12 PL was steep but lets say 10L of it for a drag nite to improve the times would be worth the money. pitty the time i experimented with it. wasnt on the track. bastards closed it. so never got any numbers to back it up. all i know that my mates s14 did 12.9 @ 108mph and he beet me about a 1/2 car lenght maybe 1 car dependign how well he hooks up.

when i experrimented with c16 was the other way around 1car maybe tad more me being ahead so definetly worked.

 

saying that it will be expensive to run your car daily on it.

 

for street use 98+20%Tol is cheaper alternative for sure. even i think with avgas. avgas i was paying 2.30per liter thats when 98 was around  87c i think. also was pain to fill the avgas as pump had the bigger nozle wouldnt fit in the unleaded tank hole. made plastic attachment but the guy was bit worried due to insurance so than had use petrol cans so became a pain.

 

once the track reopens im definetly taking the Z .first run on street spec and 98 than with jungle juice brew .than after that removing all the unnecessary weight ie seats spare wheel etc. no exhaust, deflated tyres or realy stiky street tyres (more grip) ... and run with 98+20% to see the improvments.

 

 

[mtopxsecret6]

so.. What conclusion can we come to about front mounted air cleaners then?

 

minus the price of egg's in china please.

[Zeddophile]

so.. What conclusion can we come to about front mounted air cleaners then?

 

minus the price of egg's in china please.

 

see my post on page 2 for my experiences on that.

[RBZ 260]

Greg should change the title to

 

Re: Intercooler on NA L28 and other Fuels.