New dampers and now the rear springs aren't captive

[DAZDA]

Fellow Zed enthusiasts,

 

I fitted some Tokico Illuminas to my 240Z recently and while reassembling the rear struts I discovered that the rear springs are no longer captive.    Has anyone else had this issue with the Tokico Illuminas?

 

The rear springs were captive with the previous dampers (some old Pedders Comfort Gas apparently)...

[zedrally]

First thought is whether the springs have been shortened?

Possibly lowered when the old Gas shocks had been fitted.

Count the turns and check against the Factory manual.

[chris240]

Bede, what do you mean by captive ? (dumb question of the week  ) Ive got some standard springs lying about if you get stuck..

[dat2kman]

bit of a hassle, but dissasemble, at least the spring wont go BOING and fly away, drill a couple small 4 or 5 mm holes on inside of spring perches/seats top and bottom, and then reassemble, and use some smallish diam wire wrap around a half dozen times to hold spring in place.

Common trick when lowereing old Datos by the finesse of gas torch and angle grinder!

 

This will stop them possibly flopping out when you either jack it up, or go flying over really bumpy roads, or hitting curbs on race tracks!

[dazzed]

that still didnt define what u meant by captive , does it mean that u have a loose spring on full droop ??

[Whittie]

bit of a hassle, but dissasemble, drill a couple small 4 or 5 mm holes on inside of spring perches/seats top and bottom, and then reassemble, and use some smallish diam wire wrap around a half dozen times to hold spring in place.

 

Working a treat for me

 

Can be a pain to do, but saves a LOT of hassle with the possibility of a spring coming loose and is by far the cheapest option around.

[zedrally]

Your other solution would be rubber doughnuts between the purchase and cap.

Did similar with the 240 so I could get a higher ride height when out in the forest.

[DAZDA]

Bede, what do you mean by captive ? (dumb question of the week  ) Ive got some standard springs lying about if you get stuck..

Chris, as Dazzed alluded to, it means the spring is loose at full droop (full shock extension).  Normally there is still some tension on the spring (which is why you usually use spring clamps to remove them) even at full droop.  Thanks for the offer of standard springs, but I have a set.  I might do some measuring tonight.

 

Thanks for the suggestion Dat2kman, I was thinking something along those lines.  My question then is, usually the first half a coil or so ends up coil bound, does that mean the spring is clamping/riding/hitting on the wire you used to hold the springs in?  Whittie?  Dat2kman?

 

 

All this talk of 'full droop', maybe we need some Viagra for this thread... 

 

[PZG302]

The tie wire causing dramas with the coils is not an issue. My race car has had the spring seats dropped and re-welded to get the static height I want and I can pull the springs put by hand if I want, after cutting the tie wire.

 

I have had this set up for many years of circuit racing with never a problem, including being launched into and over other cars and across some big holes in track infields.

[Whittie]

My question then is, usually the first half a coil or so ends up coil bound, does that mean the spring is clamping/riding/hitting on the wire you used to hold the springs in?  Whittie?  Dat2kman?

 

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to describe here...

 

When you put the wire on, make sure you wrap it around 4-5 times and this will make the wire strong enough to keep the spring from falling out. Do the wrap around the lowest part of the 'seat' where the spring is resting against the metal end plates, in its little channel, you don't want to tie down parts of the spring that aren't in full contact with the caps as this will put a lot of force on the tie-wire. Really, the only time the wire should be under stress is full droop, to make sure the spring doesn't come loose and fall out.

 

I only just had my suspension out the other day, I wish I took photos now!!

[DAZDA]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to describe here...

Fair enough.  Probably not my finest literary work.

 

The first coil (either the top or bottom) sits in the spring seat and is generally an inactive coil, yeah?  Right, so at ride height (when the spring is under compression by the vehicles mass) some part of the second coil usually ends up in contact with the first coil (coil bound).  This continues the more the spring is compressed.  Ultimately the spring would become fully coil bound, if the spring was in isolation and comprssed to its limit.  My question was whether the tie-wire holding the first coil in place (for non-captive springs), gets squashed (and therefore damaged) by the second coil under large amounts of spring compression?  Does that make more sense?

 

 

Having said all that, you guys all seem pretty convinced that this works and that you have been doing it for years.  So I’ll give it a go...

 

[Whittie]

Fair enough.  Probably not my finest literary work.

 

The first coil (either the top or bottom) sits in the spring seat and is generally an inactive coil, yeah?  Right, so at ride height (when the spring is under compression by the vehicles mass) some part of the second coil usually ends up in contact with the first coil (coil bound).  This continues the more the spring is compressed.

 

Just put the tie-wire around to a point where the spring is captured and the second coil is the furthest away possible. I have not had any issues with damage to the tie-wire and given that it's not very thick, I would think that if you are getting to the point where the tie-wire is being compressed then you're likely to be having coil-binding issues, which means you've got more of an issue than damaging some tie-wire!

 

The whole point of the wire is to make sure that inactive coil, doesn't move from the spring perch, that's all, so just put the wire where it's the least intrusive to spring spacing and you'll be fine

 

Indeed, 7 years of racing and not one issue. Well, cept smashing up my knuckles trying to cut the tie-wire off the other day

[chris240]

for great feats of wire tying refer to Scotts 260z pics under Thredbo postings....it deserved an academy award 

[RB30X]

for great feats of wire tying refer to Scotts 260z pics under Thredbo postings....it deserved an academy award 

Do you have a link for that?