Suspension Bushes - Prothane Kit

[Scottz]

After considerable effort I managed to remove the bushes from the diff rear mount, only to find the Prothane bushes I bought are smaller in diameter. And the center sleeve has M16 hole. But bolt is M12, so that's just going to rattle around. I hate buying stuff that does not fit !

However the radius rod bushes are just about the right diameter with the correct center sleeve bolt hole. Only length is a tad short which can be fixed by reusing original rear diff mount bush top and bottom plates.

Since material and density is the same, I'm thinking of using the rod bushes for the diff rear mount.

Anyone else find the Prothane kit rear diff mount bushes are too small in diameter? Or any other strange fits.

 

 

[Scottz]

Gave up on that idea. Heights were ever so slightly different and the M12 bolt is stepped. It is actually M15 up against the floor, so the M12 sleeve couldn't fit all the way without tappering it.

Local AutoPro were the only place that could get some 80DuraA 50mm OD bushes for the rear diff mount.  OMG - $88.

Beats me why the Prothane bushes are 46mm OD - Bad batch, or are they all like that?

Also noticed there are a few more unuseable bits in the kit. Like 3 different size bushes for sway bars, none of which fit the bars on my zed.

[Scottz]

Not much viewing on this thread, but it's developing.

Rear diff mount bushes are now turned down to use as spacers to fit the short stroke inserts and strut tubes, for the low-lowering experiment.

The 2nd set of rear diff mount bushes I bought from AutoPro were actually Fulcrum bushes (hence ripped off). Bush size is correct but sleeves are not. Getting prittty sick of this wrong size shite.  I am so (ph)aaarrrkkkkiinn over buying shite that don't fit. 

Solution - go to oldest suspension shop in town on day before Good Friday (when no one else wants to talk to you) and ask for help.

Result - Owner, manager, mechanic and all round good old school mate, finds sleeeves that (ph)aaaarrrrrkkkiiin fit, and doesn't charge a penny. Gold gold gold.

NEXT:- Cut'N'shuT, but that will be after I fix the coilover kit and Tokico inserts that also came in kits with parts that don't (ph)aaarrrrkiiin bloody fit. Not gold not gold not gold.

Scottz

ps: Anyone else bought shite that don't fit? Even after the vendor swears balck and blue it's all good, no worries, perfect and kiss my ass..........

[Vindicare]

 

I bought a full kit off ebay usa and all the bushings fit perfect after removing the old rubber bushings and their shells. Havent fitted the steering rack ones yet, but i doubt they'd be an issue

[Lynton]

 

i am looking at buying energy suspension as well from the states, although mine is a 260z 2+2 good to hear you had no problems fitting it all, does it come with instructions? I am not really suspension savvy but would certainly give it a go fiiting it all. Does it include a diff mount bush?

This is what I am looking at:-http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ENERGY-SUSPENSION-HYPERFLEX-BUSHING-KIT-280Z-74-78-BLK-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3a260Q5AQ7cSubmodelQ3a2Q2b2QQhashZitem2eb466d869QQitemZ200595134569QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Lynton

[Vindicare]

Only mustache bushings if that's what u mean. No instructions, purchase a haynes manual or something, personally i just dived in and disassembled stuff then looked at the manual for the torque settings on reassembly. FYI, it is not a small job replacing all bushings.

[Scottz]

Darn, another suspension bush the wrong size - strut top bush.

Yep, inside the strut top there is a bush that can be replaced. See photo - Replacement bush. That's the one in the left hand and old one still in the strut top. (last pic).

This is what the top hat (top spring perch) is actually loaded against inside the strut top.

It can be popped out and replaced. But my replacements were wrong diameter.

So, since I'm putting in the HSD coilovers, I don't need the old top hat. The new top plates drilled out to the diameter of strut rod will be loaded against the strut top.

Therefore the top plates need to make contact with the bush and not the excess ring of rubber that normally surrounds the top hat.

Pic 1 - Original rear setup.

Pic 2 - Original rear strut top with old bush in the center.

Pic 3 - Cut the protruding outside rubber off, and a bit of the steel ring, then pop out the old bush. You can get the bush out before cutting if you choose.

Pic 4 - Remove the excess and square it up. Remove any dags and burrs from the steel. Trim and remove extruded edges from old bush. Get it flat and squared off.

Pic 5 - Flip over the old bush and put it back in the strut top.

Pic 6 - Finished mod, where the top spring holder (top plate) is now pressing against the same bush that the old top hat was loaded against.

Pic 7 - Moc-up assembly with pipe clamp holding it all in position before welding the threaded sleeve to the strut tube.

 

Note: I have not yet installed it all on the car, so don't race out there and cut n shut just yet. It's a work in progress.

This mod takes out a few more mm's that would normally be taken up with the old top hat and excess rubber. I had purchased after market lower strut tops, but wasn't happy with their design and fabrication, so I did this mod instead.

[Scottz]

Cont'

[Scottz]

Back to those wrong size Prothane rear diff mount bushes.

They were 46.5mm OD for the part that fits in the bar, with larger diameter shoulders at upper and lower, inside steel sleeve, and fastened by top and bottom steel plates (big steel washers)+ nut.

I needed 50.5mm OD RDM bushes not 46.5mm. Also the steel sleeve slips over the bolt which is stepped from 15.5mm at upper to 12mm at lower. See pic 1.

Sleeves provided were 16mm inside diameter. See pic 2, center sleeve in picture with larger diameter Fulcrum sleeves L&R. For my thinking that's got potential to rattle around.

 

Next - Height of original Nissan rear diff mount bushes are 75mm from upper to lower plate (big steel washers). See pic 3.

Prothane Radius Rod bush (left), Prothane Rear Diff Mount bush (center), Nissan RDM bush (right).

Now height is important if you want the diff center line to be back at original position. And you can see in the photo, not only was the RDM bush wrong diameter, but longer with steel plate top & bottom. I lined up the Radius Rod bush on the left with old and new plates for comparison, but it's length was also not going to be 75mm.

 

So, I bought some Fulcrum bushes instead. OD was correct but steel sleeve was 17mm inside diameter. Pic 2, L&R sleeves.

I guess both manufacturers thought that if the sleeve fits over the bolt and is fastened freakin tight, it won't rattle around.

 

Modification idea - Take the steel sleeves from the radius rod bushes and machine a step (counter bore) in one end to slide over the upper bolt diameter. Insert it into the Fulcrum rear diff mount sleeves and bushes. Its a perfect fit. Use old upper plate with new upper plate to keep same center line height, and fasten at lower with new plate and nut. See pic 4.

 

Now what do I do with those darn wrong size RDM bushes?  :-\- Continue to next mod.

[Scottz]

Suspension Bush Mods continued: -

 

Machine (re-size) Prothane Rear Diff Mount Bushes to use as top spacers in strut tubes.

WTFF - New Tokico inserts are 85mm shorter than old inserts. Rod stroke length is same, but overall length is shorter by 85mm. See pic 1.

Why? - Because I want to lower the car with the HSD coilovers and shorter inserts suits the shorter coils, and keeps them captive. (Rally guys know what I mean). How many guys have lowered the car with short coils but kept same insert stroke length and did not change height of spring perch. Get air bourne over a hill/hump and the spring comes free of the spring perches, car comes back down and bad sound followed by bad ride. Spring is sideways and rubbing the insert rod. One old trick was to wire it all together so the top and bottom of the spring couldn't get free of their perches.

 

Original springs are about 250lb/in (4.5kg/mm). New springs are 335lb/in (6kg/mm). Simply a 33% increase in spring rate.

If each corner of the car weighs 300kg then spring coil will move from its free length by 2.64 inch for the old springs and 1.97 inch for the new springs.

Difference = 0.67 inch (17mm). So, move spring perch down 17mm - Nope.  :-\ That would work if new coils are same length as old coils, and you wanted same ride height. But they are much shorter and I want a lower ride height. And with shorter coils I don't need all the stroke length of the insert rod, 'cause they ain't going to be moving up and down the same distance anymore with those 33% stiffer springs.

Remember I have 85mm to remove or pack or combination of both. Alternatively cut 85mm out of the strut tube, but that's OTT and might cause a problem fitting the threaded sleeves. Like, take too much out and there's nothing left for the threaded sleeves to hang onto.

 

First step - fit spacer to top of new strut insert. That's between top of cartridge and gland nut, inside the strut tube.

Second step - How much spacer do I need. (a) Trial and error, (b) Maths, © Ask the vendor who has done hundreds of the mod for other users.

I'll go with © first and fine tune it from there. So I need about 32mm +/-

Beauty - 1/2 of a Prothane RDM bush is 34mm long and inside diameter is a neat sliding fit over the strut rod. That'll do for starts. Note - No sleeves required, just the plastic.

Third step - Take bushes to lathe and turn down (reduce diameter) of upper and lower shoulders to slide inside the gland nut. See pic 2,3&4.

 

 

 

 

[Scottz]

Cont':-

 

Since inside diameter of the spacer is a very neat fit around the strut rod, it can press against the cartridge/rod seal. This is a no-no.

So a small steel ring with larger inside diameter is fitted between the cartridge and the spacer. See pic 5 & 6.

 

More later...........

[Scottz]

I ran out of steam a bit with this mod last year.

After 5 years with the same company my contract was terminated. That's life for a contractor.

Unemployed I was happy staying at home and working on the zed. But one day while out in the shed working on the car, my wife strolls over and asks me if I have got something else to do rather than hanging around home all day and suggests that I actually spend some time looking for a job. 2 weeks later I'm working on a construction site out west and now only get home for 6 days each month. Well 7 months later the wife is telling me to find a job that lets me stay home more often. You just can't win. Either your home too much, or too little.

Here is a photo of the rear after the mod was finished.

I'll dig out the other photos and give a bit more detail later. Simply I did a combination of cutting the strut tube & using a spacer above and below the insert, to allow for the new inserts being 85mm shorter.

Front suspension has also been done and disc brake upgrade all 4 corners. Next is the engine transplant.

Now to fix the wife's moaning I thought I would teach her a little lesson, and I bought this a few weeks ago. She doesn't dare say a word now. Any more complaints and the shed will really start filling up..

[RB30X]

Nice work Scott.

 

When am I taking you fishing/crabbing to show me some spots???

[Scottz]

Tim,

I'll be home for 5 days from 3rd to 7th May.

Last time I was home I got my boat ready, but I have to look up the new life vest classification (apparently some changes have been made).

It's getting close to time for upgrading the boat. Imagine what the wife will be thinking if I towed a new boat home!

If the weather is good, I'll show you some close reefs that you can get to in your tinney.

[RB30X]

5th to the 7th is good for me.

I haven't heard about any life vest changes.

 

When are you picking up the Stang?

[MaygZ]

......now only get home for 6 days each month. Well 7 months later the wife is telling me to find a job that lets me stay home more often. You just can't win. Either your home too much, or too little.

 

I am soooo hearing you brother!!  Then the 6 days seems too long for them!  I've been doing it for 18 months.  It sucks HARD!

[Scottz]

Tim,

The Stang is already home and resting quietly in the shed.

RHD and very original. I'm working on a build spec for the 302w to stroke up to 331cid.

You have my mobile and email so text or email a message and we can sort out a fishing day.

I'm talking to a shop in Brisy to help finish the zed project. Not enough time at home to do it all myself.

Only thing I'm still looking for is a LSD. Every other part I have.

Here are some pics of the front suspension and brakes, which I was working on when you dropped by last.