whats the most rear wheel hp you can get out of the L series

[plytme]

Hi all,

 

        I'm a newbie at posting but have been reading and learning for a while now, i am interested to know what kind of rear wheel horsepower is achievable with the L28 N/A, L28 Turbo, stroker 3.1, or if it has been done turbo stroker, I am very interested to know as i have an original 240z at home in need of a restoration and in the meen time am considering buying another zed that is already a good driver that i can start to play around with and enjoy any help would be appreciated thanks.

[PZG302]

Hi plytme, welcome to the site.

 

I'll throw my 2 bob's worth in along with plenty of others.

 

I have a 240Z that has been built for Marque Sports and runs a NA L28 that I believe is a stroker. I know who built the motor, but am unsure of the exact one it is so I believe it is a stroker but won't know until the head comes off and my P90 head goes on.

 

The spec is 76 degree cam, FI using standard manifold, throttle body and injectors plus Haltech F9 fuel only computer with 280ZX electronic dizzy. I get a comfortable and reliable 120-140 rwhp, depending on the dyno, the higher figure is in shoot out mode on a dyno dynamics dyno. This is reached at about 6800. The big advantage to my motor is the torque, unbelievably flat from 3500 to 6000.

 

This motor is quite happy to run on 98 octane fuel and doesn't cost me a cent other than regular oil, filter and plug changes.

 

The previous motor I used in the car, and still have though the block is cracked, was a L28 bored to 2.9 with N42 block and P90 head with the ports cleaned up, same manifolds as on the current motor. Again horsepower was at around 120 at the wheels with plenty of torque, and the same flat curve, though not quite as much as the stroker.

 

These motors cost very little to build, but get their power, and more importantly for me, torque from good preparation and being screwed together by guys who know what they are doing with not a lot.

 

If I was chasing big power, over 200 at the wheels, you really need to spend some dollars, though the basics are pretty affordable. Yesterday I picked up the basis for my new spare motor, L28, F54 block and N42 head for $230. The build will be a slow one, but it will have around 120-150hp at the wheels and be very affordable and able to pull tree stumps out of the ground.

 

In my opinion a well built L28 can put out a useable 120-150rwhp very easily and affordably, be a good streetable motor and is the way to go. Standard 280ZX injection is relatively easy to fit and splice in the engine harness and computer, though aftermarket computer will probably work out a little cheaper in the long run, and I'd recommend Haltechor Motech to handle the fuel and spark.

 

If you want to play on the road build a grunter, torque is much more usefula than top end power, and is generally easier to build a torquey motor that behaves itself on pump fuel and in a road car.

 

I hope this is of some assistance to you.

 

Matt

[Vindicare]

I think it's a good time to give oyu this link. www.hybridz.org . Look around, pretty sure there's guys getting 500+ rwhp on turbo motors.

[plytme]

Thanks for the info PZG302, i had heard of N/A motors getting over 200 at the wheels in l28 form but didn't know just how far they can go comfortabley so thanks again for all the info, it's a hard choice when deciding what motor to build or convert when  you still want to keep the originality of the car. It's pretty easy to do an rb conversion and get the power, so i was very interested to hear how people have gone with the L series .I will have to look up the hybridz.org website thanks vindicare, appreciate all the help,hope theres more to come CHEERS!!

[Zedman240®]

Here are my two cents worth too... hehe.. With my NA L28 with ITB's and 76' cam and some minor porting, if my conversions are right, I've managed around 190 rwHp. (153 rwKw) at about 6300 rpm. I never give it a hard time at club events and it seems to be holding up well. Its not a pig to drive around the street either amazingly! I'm trying to keep with the original engine layout, been tempted to go the RB way. If something does let go, rather rebuild the L28 I would go down the RB route..I think I've gone as far as I can go without spending megabucks...Hope it helps ya

[modular9]

PZG302 : How much do you think the EFI setup was contributing to your power output ?  I mean if you were to set it up with a triple carb setup instead would you get the same figures ?

 

Cheers and beers

 

 

[PZG302]

I find that triples, depending on set up, would more than likely give a better peak power rating, however the injection gives a more linear power delivery throughout the rev range, and is a lot easier to set up and doesn't go out of tune unless something either breaks, or someone fiddles. Having said that if you get a good set of triples set up well and leave them alone they will also run reliably with no need to constantly tune them.

 

I had a Stanza with twin 40mm Webers that once set we didn't trouch for about two years and it ran just as well as when first going.

 

I could also get a lot more power out of the injection set up going to individual throttle bodies, playing with injector locations, getting a better computer etc, etc. but it all comes down to dollars.

 

Personally, I do favour injection over triples, especially for a road car, even though you don't get the induction noise that is pretty good  The cost to set up injection or triples will be around the same without going overboard.

 

As an example I am looking at about $3200 for a set of new in box Webers, manifold and linkages for my 265 Charger. I also have to get a set of filters and get them set up to suit the motor, so probably another few hundred dollars in bits and tune time.

 

At the moment there is a complete second injection system for a 280ZX on ebay for under $100. There are a few tweaks that can be done to the standard computer to get a bit more, or look at second manifold, easy enough to get, some injectors, an aftermarket computer, I would prefer Motech or Haltech, and wiring to suit you would probably come out in front of a new set of triples.

 

To quote the sign at the wreckers in Mad Max - "Speed is just a question of money. How fast can you afford to go!!"  ;D

 

 

[plytme]

Cheers guys, i was talking to my labourer today and he is into rallying, they have an rx2 that does quite well, he was talking to one of there tuners and apparently they tune another rally or circuit 240z that has a L28 stroker making 230rwhp, but there is more in it. I'd think that with that amount of horsepower in a zed she would have to be quite good fun!!

 

Has anyone gone the stroker route or stroker turbo or is it not possible?

[PZG302]

The stroker is a pretty big dollar investment to do right and will give you a real grunty torquey motor. For the street it would be brilliant, and the track for that matter, as most driving is not done at 6800 or above no matter where you run

 

A good strong well built L28 will be plenty fun on the street, and will suprise you as to how good it feels. My first Z was a ex rally 260 with L28 and injection. On rally tyres was real fun, could power slide through any corner at will, pity the body had seen better days, a few seasons of rally work does break them.

 

Also a word of warning on dyno figures, some less than reputable people are known manipulate dynos to give higher figures. For me the best dyno is the stop watch. The operators of the three dynos I have had the Z on for tuning have all said that they could basically give me what ever figure I wanted. Probably the most consistent would be a dyno dynamics dyno in shoot out mode, but you can still fudge power figures.

[gav240z]

Thought I might join in here since I'm a 1/4 of a way through a stroker build .

I started a blog on what I was up to here: http://datsun-240z-blog.viczcar.com/

 

As mentioned above to build a stroker right takes a lot of money and patience. You are right in that it keeps with the originality of the car and one of the things I love so much about the Z is the L-series engine, there just so fun to work with and look fantastic all polished up in the engine bay with triples hanging off the side. Not to mention how lovely a well sorted one will sound. Yep they do have lots of torque and its a great feeling when you launch a well sorted one.

 

The biggest obstacle for me is the money it takes. I bought a LD28 crank for $700 + shipping and that's before any machine work such as balancing / shot peening or heat treatment. Then you want to get yourself a set of L20 rods or L14 rods (even rarer - read expensive). L14 rods are rare because they never came out here and they were found in a 4 banger which means getting 6 is hard. Not to mention everyone wants them for their ideal rod / stroke ratio. You can also use L20 rods but they are getting harder to source.

 

You can stick with standard L28 rods but you will loose a bit of power and it will make for a bit of a pig IMHO. Then there's custom pistons (you can go cheap - but after investing so much already why?) You need to get block work done, cylinder head work, valves, cams, rockers, lash pads.

 

The list builds and the more you do the more it feels like you should do. You could easily pump 10 - 15k in a motor. That's before even considering turbo chargers. A guy in SA has built a stroker turbo Ben is his name. He's floating about somewhere - not sure if he's a member here now. I think you can find him on the Zgarage (I always forget the link - look in our links section).

 

Of course if you want NA you can get a set of Triples or F.I of course more money there too .

 

Lately the idea of an RB26 in my Z has been rattling around in my mind. Its a good thing I'm overseas at the moment because I might do something silly . Different horses for different courses it all depends on what you want at the end of the day.

 

You can also check out Eiji's cool Z which runs an L28 http://www.viczcar.com/Featured-Rides/Eiji-Hosomi-s-Datsun-240z.html

 

He's pushing close to 350HP at the flywheel or at least I believe.

[gav240z]

As also hinted above if I were to build a sensible L28, I would probably build a combo with the following components:

 

- L28 N42 Block (more solid block over F54 - other opinions may vary).

- N42 Head (Ported Polished and Prepped for High Compression - welded head).

- 280zx Distributor (Re mapped to improve advance)

- Twin SU (Hitachi 240z style) Carbs with SM performance needles - Port matched manifold & bored throats

- 76 Degree Camshaft

- Decent set of headers (most headers you get in Aus are pretty standard but better than stock).

 

Add all that to a 4.11 diff and you get a decently quick Z on a relatively low budget. Pretty streetable and sounds fantastic. I'd guess maybe 220 RWHP? perhaps more? It really depends on port work and cam profile.

[Zedman240®]

I remember a 240Z a while ago running a stroker engine with just 240Z carbies. It seemed to hit a wall at around 5500 - 6000rpm. The carbies didn't let the engine breathe enough at those revs. Any healthy L28 with a lumpy cam, and installing 240 carbs I think is a waste of time. Might be ok for the street but for any more....You're better off selling them and at the very least install a set of triple 40mm dellorto's. I think Dave Robertson in the NDSOC is running that Zed now. You would have to port the living daylights out of those 240 carbs until they were paper thin!

[Zeddophile]

I remember a 240Z a while ago running a stroker engine with just 240Z carbies. It seemed to hit a wall at around 5500 - 6000rpm. The carbies didn't let the engine breathe enough at those revs. Any healthy L28 with a lumpy cam, and installing 240 carbs I think is a waste of time. Might be ok for the street but for any more....You're better off selling them and at the very least install a set of triple 40mm dellorto's. I think Dave Robertson in the NDSOC is running that Zed now. You would have to port the living daylights out of those 240 carbs until they were paper thin!

 

I'd mostly agree, although you have to remember that carbies neck down quite considerably in the middle to a smaller diameter than the rest, to increase the airflow (IE. 40mm dellortos generally have a 36mm ID?).  As such, there is probably quite a lot of meat there for the taking, but the flipside is that every bit you take out surely has to vastly decrease the effectiveness of the carby due to loss of air velocity to draw in fuel....

 

Triples would be a much better option for a higher revving cam - 40mm is a little smaller than the usual, yes?  But this could be actually quite good for a street car - the slightly smaller butterflies would give a bit better response, and the point at which the motor outbreathes the carbies is high enough not to matter on the street.

 

That said, I think if you had a stump pulling cam in your L28, the 240 carbs with a jetting change could be pretty good in that situation.

[plytme]

Thanks for all the info guys, its been very helpful, and also gav240z thanks for the link to eiji hosomi's zed, that 240 is awesome, orange has always been a bit of a favourite of mine. It's good to hear that there are so many zeds out there with such good horsepower whether it's an L or RB. With running say over150- 200rwhp in L28 form does the gearbox become an issue or are they fairly strong.

[modular9]

PZG302  : Thanks for the info. I have the triple 40 dellortos already so it looks like I'll try that out for a while and see what the power is like ( i was impressed with the quick squirt around the block ! ) then look at a 280 injections idea. I would prefer torque over peak power so it might happen earlier than later.

[Scando]

With running say over150- 200rwhp in L28 form does the gearbox become an issue or are they fairly strong.

 

I've busted 2 now running a 174rwkw L28 turbo but it's used for racing so it cops a fair bit of stress.  If you look after it then I think a standard box would do the job for street use with the power range you're talking about.