RB25DET SR20DET into 260z, noob in need

[herrods]

gday all,

 

I am about to buy a 1971 260z 2+2, and before I do so, I want to know what the deal is with swapping in a black top SR20, or a R33 GTST engine and box.

 

But I'm a little lost (even after using the search button) as to what exactly needs to happen for each of these engines to go into my ride and toy.

 

What parts will i need from the donor car? (S15 or a R33 GTST) depending on motor.

What parts will I need to keep from the 260z?

What parts will I need to source from totally different cars?

What parts will have to be made custom?

What driveline will need to be used to fit either the S15 6 speed, of R33 5 speed in?

 

What ballpark figure are we looking at for hours of labour?

What potential headaches am I going to run into?

Is there something a bit better to be putting in there?

What is the the deal with aftermarket things like coilovers like?

what is the av availability/range of period and "modern" bodykits like?

 

I would consider going V8, but I like the nissan engines a bit more.  I want the car as basically a daily driver, for street, track and a little bit of drifting use.

 

if anyone can help me out with this, would really appreciate it.

[zedevan]

2+2's didn't start being made till atleast 74, but thats really a non issue lol

 

you use the engine and gearbox out of the car of your choice, and generally get a custom drive shaft made up to mate up to your diff, although people like to upgrade the rear drive shafts to ones that use cv's, and if you look around on hybridz.org there is info there on putting the s13 or r32 or something...complete rear susspension into 240z's, there is also lots of info on both swaps on there. as far as i know there isn't an sr powered s30 in australia yet?

 

time wise i'd assume the same amount of time as putting in complete after market gauges, exhaust, brakes, fmic, ecu if ur using pre made mounts so there isn't the time spent working out the right side for them. getting it all perfect is sure to take you forever though, and depends if your going to get it engineered as they might be fussy

 

rb26 is obviously better and an ls7 would also be nice...

 

coilovers are generally made by local susspension shops as there are no "off the shelf" type ones cheap, but please tell if you find some

 

you can get the period style body kits easily enough, suppliers in america are possibly the easiest for modern looking side skirts, which i think look quite ugly on 240z's unless done right

 

sleep time

[RBZ 260]

erm i would like to point out that there is several Sr20DET powerd s30. i know of one in adelaide that has a red top SR in his 240z with ABS system from a 300zx. also a guy called nick in woolongong has done a s14 black top in his 240z.visit www.thezgarage.com to contact him.also theres few pic of the setup very impressive.so theres at least two 240z powerd in OZ. but also theres a few with fj20et and lots of rb conversions.

 

ive got a rb20det in my 260z 2+2 with pretty much all the stuff u want plus extras.

 

its taking me all my spare time after my full time job at least 3 years to redoo the whole car. almost done but still a fair bit to go.

 

RB conversions are fairly easy as well as sr20det. though sr20 needs engine brackets fabricated. which could cost.. as zedevan said u need tailshaft made approx $250 to $300. gearbox on rb20 and sr20 fit easily almost align up to factory mount. but rb25 may need the trans bracket moved slightly down depending how far u push the engine towards the firewall. another chap to contact is JP or Also known as James. he has a 260z with rb30DET and rb25DET gbox.

 

on RB sump needs to be turned around with new oil pick up $67 which can be bought from z31 200zr from your local nissan dealer as well as a sump $580+ last time i checked.

 

ive been qoted to fit my rb20det to the 260z $400 for mechanical bolting plus parts. i still ended up doing it myself.

 

wiring is another issue. if u get a complete front cut than everything is almost included to turn the engine over. all u have to do is adapt the ignition switch to factory engine loom. which is fairly easy. aftermarket well u gona spend another 2k for a basic system.

 

other bits like plumbing the cooler and new exhaust system, LSD diff, brake conversion etc.... also adds up.

my rear end LSD diff, cv shaft conversion and disk brakes cost me more than the engine conversion in parts only and for machining done externaly.

 

my 260z so far cost me $10K+ for car and all the mods done to it. but i did 99% of the work myself. if i paid someone to do it it will cost close to 50k

 

though if u dont know how to do it yourself it will cost u a typical engine conversion will set u back $5k to $10k depending what u need done, and a rough ball park maybe another 5k- 7k for the rest of the driveline. so lets hope u got friends that they know what they doing and willing to do it for "fun"

 

 

so to answear u question there are few issues with every engine conversion which is easily overcome when using nissan engines nowa days u can buy kits to install rb engines in s30. time wise if u work full time and have bit of cash it will set u back approx 10k and good 6months at its best. if doing it yourself u may have that cost cut down to half and add about 3x more time wise and few grazed knuckles.

 

another tip if buying engine get it from a wrecked car or 1/2 cut. makes things easier than trying to find what went where and what is missing.if u find cheap engine and box but theres lot of other things that go with it. and u easily blow that budget collecting missing bits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sco_aus]

I will second the close to $50k comment, im there already.

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php?topic=1560.msg11199#msg11199

I hope my build up and its pics might give a little more insight into what needs doing for an RB conversion, but feel free to message if you need any help. I have paid a lot of people to do my work, but I always over see whats being done.

[zedevan]

good info, i remember seeing pictures of nicks car but forgot what motor was in it...its not particually amazing that you can fit a 4 cylinder into a zed engine bay lol

 

on a bit of a side note, one of my mates for some reason thinks that being the first car in australia to do a particular conversion is the best thing ever, i wouldn't have thought it really mattered where it was, besides the fact you might be able to get kits in some places to make things easier

 

...if u want a sexy sr20 powered car stick with ur s15

[RBZ 260]

good info, i remember seeing pictures of nicks car but forgot what motor was in it...its not particually amazing that you can fit a 4 cylinder into a zed engine bay lol

 

 

nobody said its imposible or amazing fitting a sr20det in a 240z u can fit a v12 if u realy want. but the scope of work Nick did and how he went about it is work of art. not you slap together by so called proffesionals.

 

the 240z that was done in SA with sr20det had a l28 turbo prior to it. He is also a track guy and has few race cars so he knows what hes on about.balance of the sr20det vs l28 wasnt even comparable, while still quicker of the line quicker around the track more relaible and lot easier on the fuel. hmm havent seen any disadvatages yet. besides having a huge gap infront of the engine to fit a "v" shaped radiator intercooler setup. hmm another disadvantage dont think so.

 

all i said that theres is a sr20det powered S30 in OZ. 

 

back to the topic.

 

its whatever you looking and expect from the car. every conversion has its gains and setbacks. its not rocket science and any person with will to learn and understand how things work can do it. u dont need an expensive workshop to do the work.

 

i spent 10k on mine with pretty much all things done to it. on the other scale you got SCO_AUS that spent close to 50k. its what you can do your self that saves you lot of $$$.

 

my way of doing a conversion u got to let at least another 1K on top of the engine just to bolt it up. regardless what engine u chose. (though installing a nissan V8 may cost a bit more if u want a manual behind it.)

 

best thing is do your reaserch do a table form spreadsheet and compare side by side. than decide.

 

i can tell you the details to install rb20det and other bits i done to mine but my price is cost of materials and not including work.

 

so a quick check what u need to do a rb conversion

 

1. sump needs to be cut and rotated 180deg or buy an z31 200zr sump

 

2. oil pick up from z31 200zr

 

3. new exhaust fabricated

 

4.intercooler installation and fabrication of pipes.

 

5.if u want the engine close to the firewall rb20det engine brackets need to be redrilled to accomodate this.

  by doing this u need a modified transmission mount or custom mount. If not on 260z rb20det engine brackets will line up to crossmember and trany mount. may need to cut a larger hole in tunnel for the stick to come out. expecialy if auto previously. (though u just remove the extra plate that is spot welded to the gear box hole.

 

6.sloting the crossmember mounts instead of the two small holes. this lowers the engine down as far as possible. i used stock rb20det engine mounts. if want lower need custom or chase a lower profile ones from another car or use L series ones.

 

7.u need a high flow high pressure fuel pump with a surge tank. no surge tank ur high pressure fuel pump will be replaced on regular basis.UNLESS u put a custom fuel tank with inbuilt surge compartement than its fine. also need a high flow low pressure pump to fill the surge tank if using original fuel tank.

 

8. wiring. nissan has one of the best setups when it come to engine wiring. its mostly plug in. and easily seperated from main loom. on the end u only need to hook up 5-6 wires to your ignition barrel and u ready to run. than u can run apexi power fc and other plug in play ecu's

 

9. Tailshaft need to be crafted but depending on original setup and setup of the engine u could get away using a different tail shaft without mods. look outside the s30 square. nissan has very good adaptabilty accross their range.

 

10. all left is wiring the engine to the guages.though to make it legal depending where u are u may need few other things installed like the polution gear and cat converter. but depending on the state u live in.

 

11.cost. doing it myself engine and box $1300 + few new parts (oil and water pump gasket seals etc...) approx $1500. other materials and tailshaft intercooler piping $600, big intercooler $200-350.  labour to do it if i was to do it all prob around $1k if u have a front cut available and original engine box out. time probably 3-5days full time.

 

 

 

 

[herrods]

Thanx for the info.

 

I have been thinking over the many options available, and I was thinking about the L28 motor.

Bear with me while I theorize for a second, and of course feel free to correct me if I start talking crazy.

 

If one was to bore/stroke the fuel injected L28 to a  2.9L, have one with electronic injection, use forged internals and piston sleeves, and fill the block in as a closed deck (assuming it is open or semi open at present) and then set up the appropriate amount of compression for turbo use.  Upgraded crank /cam(s)

 

After this, use a custom exhaust manifold to use twin turbo, or large single turbo, and a RB26 intake manifold, bigger injectors/reg/fuel system to match, and the appropriate computer to manage it.

 

would you then not have a L-RB-29DET(T), and would this creat as much torque or power as a reasonably modified R26DETT?

 

am i Crazy? shooting to high in the sky? is this old news?

[RBZ 260]

i think more sensible aproach would be to have rb30et block and than add rb26de head but even easier is the rb25 head less modifications. . and choice of twin or single turbo. that engine that u just dreamt up will cost most of the 50k to make up. blocks dont realy match to rb heads. even with rb blocks to rb heads are not exact replacement. mods are necessary. not sure exact but there is mods to water and oil jackets from memory etc.

some need welding some need driling etc.. not certain.

 

s30 are fairly light u dont need 1000nm/kg of tourqe to push it around.

if money no object go infinty v8 with twin superchargers or turbos. if u like smoking rubber in every gear.  with good realiabilty. and u can't beat the V8 sound.

[zedevan]

and thanks for the info rbz, as i was asking a question regarding if there was one in aus and i agree that nicks car looks like it will be one awesome beast, but urs aint to bad either

 

two things you mentioned in point 6 i'm not quite following.  what two small holes? and why would u need to replace a high pressure fuel pump on a regular basis if its in a custom fuel tank with inbuilt surge compartement? i feel as if i'm reading something wrong

[RBZ 260]

and thanks for the info rbz, as i was asking a question regarding if there was one in aus and i agree that nicks car looks like it will be one awesome beast, but urs aint to bad either

 

two things you mentioned in point 6 i'm not quite following.  what two small holes? and why would u need to replace a high pressure fuel pump on a regular basis if its in a custom fuel tank with inbuilt surge compartement? i feel as if i'm reading something wrong

 

point 6:  on the crossmember  ur engine brackets where the engine mount bolts up has a round hole. where u bolt the moung and engine. if u hava a look at r32 crossmember engien brackets they have a slot not a hole where ur engine mounts bolt up. i guess they done that to align the motor and give larger tolerance when fitting the engine. or who know for what other reason maybe aligning the box with diff but dont see would they. only nissan knows y. so i basicaly replicated that slot on the s30 crossmember.

 

this allows u to drop the engine lot lower and to square it up. also if u try to use original holes of s30 and r32 engien mounts u find that they wont fit and if they do, they be stressed and fail.

 

i think u can see that on one of my pick where i got my power steer setup. not sure if on viczcar or thezgarage could be on both.

 

 

as for surge tanks and fuel pump. high flow high pressure pumps are mounted in efi cars usualy intank with built in surge tank. its to ensure that u have fuel at all times when cornering. u run a high pressure high flow pump without few even for very short time it will fail. (been there done that, runnin low amounts of fuel and booting the car = 3 x fuel pumps)make sure u got lot of fuel. if engine missing while being pushed around corner could be fuel pump runing out of fuel.

 

so all your internal efi fuel pumps high pressure ones need to have enough fuel so they dont run dry.

 

ur carby pumps are lot more tolerant. so hence cars liek VL commodore  have low pressure boost pump followed by high pressure.

 

this is what i did to mine: have high flow low pressure holley blue pump filling a 2L surge tank. in the surge tank i have a internal walbro  high flow high pressure pump feeding the engine.so i have approx 1.5l of buffer before i run out of fuel in the surge tank. hopefully enough till the fuel level comes back to the first pump and refills it.

 

so far had no issues other option was to have a new fuel tank with internal baffles and surge for internal fuel pump. or do the VL trick. but the VL hasnt got a buffer of fuel so u still run a risk of running the pumps dry.

 

so u dont need to replace a fuel pump if u use custom fuel tank with inbuilt surge tank. im gona check what i wrote before.

 

sorry for the long post. hope it more clear now.

[modular9]

Herrods : check hybridz.org in the l6 engine forum for what you can get out of a L6. I know they are all american but in this internet age there is no reason why you couldnt just buy the parts that they use and get it shipped here.

 

If you find some L28 blocks kicking around in Aus save one for me as all my current searches are coming up with nothing ( i only need the engine , none of the ancillaries or EFI or any of that sort of thing And dont want to buy a wrecked 280 ) .

 

rbz : thanks for a good run down on what is needed for an RB conversion. It is a LOT more than i previously thought.

[zedevan]

thanks for clearing that up for me, and the great explanation on the fuel issue. where abouts did you mount the fuel pumps and surge tank? i'll try to find a build thread of your car

 

The mounting holes make alot more sense, i'm hoping if had an r32 halfcut in front of me i would of been able to work it out!

[RBZ 260]

no problem guys.

 

ive mounted the surge tank and fuel pumps in the same location as the original fuel pump under the car near the fuel tank. surge tank and internal pump is bolted in the same spot as fuel pump while external holley is bolted besides it on the surge tank itself.its a tight fit but its out of the harms way.

 

can post a pic bit later