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Lots of panel beating to get it back into shape and some time spent readjusting the panel gaps to make them nice, followed by a fresh coat of Epoxy. It's now back with Les Collins Racing for them to organize painting it - I'll update this thread once it has colour on it.

So has the used Japanese car market.

So as a few of you would know, I made the decision to sell my 2+2 (https://www.viczcar.com/forums/topic/16813-neds-z-76-22/) early 2020, as I felt that I would need to spend too much money to get it to the stage that I would be some what happy with, and with a little one on the way and the wife buying a new car, it just made sense to me to make way in our single car garage. This finally sold in April 2020 just after we got out of Melbourne's first lockdown. Now for those who like long stories: As most people with the Z bug, I never actually stopped looking for another Z, preferably 2-seater (most have always been out of my budget), or if the right 2+2 appeared, I would still be happy, but this was not at the front of my mind during 2020. We all know prices started to creep up, and then we got of lockdown for the summer, I started paying more attention! April 2021 came around, an orange 260z appeared on Facebook for $40k I believe, but sold the same day. It was that day the wife and I discussed a budget should something like that appear on the market again. The seller also had a white 2+2 for sale as well, so I thought I'd go have a look. Not my thing, but he had another 2-seater, but as I umm'd & ahhh'd, it sold later that day. DOH! After chatting with Gavin, I decided to put a wanted ad on facebook and gumtree with a budget of $40k for a Z I could essentially hop in and drive. A couple of projects, some rust buckets and a couple of Zs for $70-90k. Then one guy just NW of Melbourne, messaged me and said lets talk. I have a white 260z (originally silver) with a 4.4L V8 from a Leyland P76, he sent me some pictures and had a decent price range around my budget. I was a bit snobbish about the idea of the motor, and we also just went into yet another lockdown, so I kept the conversation open and said we will organise inspection after lockdown. He said no worries, I am not in a rush, and I am not going to list it. He wasnt even looking to sell it, but saw my wanted ad, I guess they work. I message him early December to see if he still wanted to sell, and he said he will let me know in a couple of weeks, so I reached out again and he gave me a non-negotioable price under my budget. Sweet! Organised to go have a look at it with the Z Godfather, and to both our surprise, the body was in very good condition and barely modified to fit the motor, and currently on club permit with the motor. We agreed on price, and said he will hold it until I am ready to collect it. January came around, picked up the car and took it to a mechanic, who said it wouldnt be an issue with the motor regarding the RWC, he would give me a list of things I needed to fix, and he also got the carbie sorted, so she starts up first time. Then the fun started, he did some work on the motor and the carbie, got it running, then tells me he wont give me a RWC without an engineers cert. (Car has previously been registered and on CPS with this motor, so not really his concern). Off to another mechanic, and the list of things to fix was relatively small compared to what I was expecting. - drivers side seatbelt freyed - door rubbers - tires cracked - bonnet safety catch missing - gearbox mount hitting metal - engine mounts to be replaced (standard 260z mounts) - exhaust too close to the steering arm (less than 15mm, could cause binding) - headlights not working (headlight switch and also loose connection at drivers side headlight) (The Japanese Torana)

I was fortunate to obtain a 2+2 front cut from one of my contacts that was straight with only minor rust. They also had some good front guards, headlight buckets / sugar scoops & bonnet hinges. So Michael went and collected them on ANZAC day & brought it back to our shop. That week we removed the skirt & rails from the donor firewall and did the same thing to the Z: The clip was prepped, then clamped into position where all the dimensions were carefully measured and the clip adjusted so that was in correct alignment. Following this the guards & bonnet were bolted onto check gaps:

I see $ signs, as this sort of poor workmanship keeps us in business!

Talk about post revival 8 years later I am still building this car but it is getting closer to completion.

So this Michael fella posts up on one of the FB groups last year, asking for parts and panels to repair his bent Z that he's just bought. Like an idiot I pipe up and comment he needs to have it pulled straight by a shop first, before anything can be replaced. Next thing I know, he's PM'd me asking more questions... And this is how I ended up with another job and a it's bloody Bus! Turns out he had bought it off a friend who's SON had driven it into a tree... The Dad apparently didn't want any more to do with it and so he sold it to this bloke Michael. It looked like an OK thing before the accident: But now... oof... It's your typical Z hotrod with flares, big wheels, shitty coilovers & triple carbs. It was apparently been built buy a shop for the farther & son, but as you'll soon see, you wouldn't get them to service your lawnmower... Michael had removed the engine and gearbox before bringing it down to me. In mid April this POS arrives in my shop; it goes straight up on the chassis bench where we give it a good look over and measure. Miraculously the damage hasn't twisted or bent the shell behind the firewall, so we can get away with just front chassis repairs. However in the accident, the LH rear copped a hit along with the LH dogleg - and this is where the project snowballed...

I tend to agree. Two different markets. one market is chasing a hobby/project, nostalgia, novelty and a form of time travel in a classic z. the other market is after mod cons, outright performance, a warranty and a somewhat analog but modern sports car experience. Something a classic z does not provide. The percentage of buyers who will buy a Nissan z and either lock it away or put limited kms on to maintain “collectibility” will be minute. Most will daily them or keep as the fun weekend car to be driven.

With the panel gaps checked & the front clip adjusted slightly, the clip with welded into position. We then stripped the shell of the remaining parts and installed it onto the rotisserie: Blasting is scheduled for the 24th, so stay tuned...

The upcoming Shannons auction will be revealing - there are some nice cars up for grabs that might give an overall vibe of the strength of the market. My 2c - Some of the zeds that have dropped in price are not particularly nice examples from a value standpoint - non-original motors, heaps of non factory mods and hard to find parts missing or race prepped or similar (ie not where the value lies). It's very easy for an owner of a zed who has no appreciation of why cars are worth XXX to expect theirs to be worth the same and attempt a cash grab that was never realistic.

Not unexpected if it has. Two schools of economic thought: 1) Interest rates are set to rise sharply which means people sell off toys and holiday homes to reduce and consolidate increasingly hard to service debt. That coupled with the fact that money (for toys) will be more expensive to borrow means that there is not the same number of players looking to enter/stay in the classic car market thus pushing prices down. 2) Alternatively, as property gets more expensive to debt service their relative values either plateau or decline which means that people look to assets, other than property, to invest in such as shares or classic cars etc. This may in turn cause inflation of the classic car market. it does appear that we are on the verge of experiencing situation one though. But if you don’t have to sell in the oncoming period then don’t. Situation 2 will roll around soon enough and inflation will move your car values north by default.

Good summary vosadrian, I think youve got it pretty right! Original restoration vs. tastefull restomod? I can see value in both and it comes down to the market and what the buyer wants. I love the classic modified JDM look and wanted to keep that, so from the outside and even the interior you wouldn't know that my car is so extensively modified until you open the bonnet. I did want to stay with the heritage of a N/A inline six but wanted a more modern and capable feel to the driving experience. I did hedge my bets both ways so everything I've done is bolt in and easily reversible and I've got the original parts, including matching numbers engine and gearbox and everything needed to revet back to standard.....if a buyer wanted to do so. What its worth doesnt really bother me and I wouldnt change a thing if I had my time over again.

I must say the new Z has appeal in a market with limited options. But it will never be as legendary as the original. I recall people "trading up" from 240z's to buy 350z's in the early 2000s. How did that work out?

I would think of it like this: Will somebody who currently wants a 1970s sports car with timeless design, simple and effective mechanics, big noises (including some rattles), no creature comforts and something that turns heads and stirs up nostalgia - also be considering the new Nissan Z? My bet is no.

The Leyland V8 is not the controversy. Who's the Z Godfather is: Gav or Lurch?

Best part is, being a late 260z the engine number is not on the ID plate in the engine bay. It just says type "L26" so you could swap an L-series back in and it would be "original" again. But the V8 is kind of fun, if you plan to tow a small boat in future.

I wish Lurch would tell us what he really thinks….

Tacho is back from the instrument maker today. Apparently had a faulty board. This is the last restored piece to go into the car. Now we have a couple of adjustments, final operations test and checks of all components/functions, professional detail, professional photos…then transport to me in Canberra.

Locky is a glutton for punishment. Seriously though, it goes to show that there are ‘restorations’ and restorations. Lots of people just end up putting makeup on a pig. im glad this zed has found a place to get restored at to give it maximum life.

The LH dogleg had copped a hit, so I started to remove the paint in anticipation of replacing the panel (as pulling the dent out probably wouldn't work). Only to find this bodge-job: So I set about cutting the dogleg off and found this underneath - the shop who 'restored' the Z in 2018 didn't even bother to repair the rotten sill underneath... I knew the RH side would be the same so rinse and repeat: It was at this stage that I called the owner to discuss options as, this was no longer a straightforward job of straightening the body & giving it a new coat of paint. He agreed that it needed to be restored correctly, so it was now going to get the whole CAR enchilada... ...on a feckin Bus

Hi guys, I've split these posts into a new topic to keep the for sale thread, a for sale thread. Otherwise feel free to continue. FWIW, I found the RB26 feels very similar to the L-series motor in terms of being a straight 6 and the overall sound/feel. So I think it's a good swap option. I personally think an RB25NEO (w/26 covers let's be honest 25 covers look crap), and a high flow OP6 turbo and Nistune ECU would be really a really economical option that would easily make 350-400hp and in a Z would be plenty fast. If there is 1 thing I think is required in a an S30Z these days it's aircon and most 240z's didn't come equipped with that originally (some home market cars had it) but many are later dealer options, but I want to drive my classic and be comfortable too. With the way our summers are these days I think although aircon adds to the clutter of an engine bay it's worth having.

I think this is why I have 4 240z's to be honest. I like originality, but I also like period correct modifications and some improvements to make the cars a bit more fun. The older I get, the more I appreciate them the way they are or were made. I do like an RB swap (26) in concept, but I feel the chassis isn't really up to the task and to me it's a bit of a mismatch when you consider the Rb26 was AWD in a GTR. I feel like 250hp in a Z is plenty of fun and can be achieved via the L-series engine. Engine swaps always date the car to an era and the RB motors are old hat now. The only engine swap in an S30Z that really appeals to me is the S20 motor, but they are now worth an absolute fortune and out of reach. I almost think I'd be better off doing a tribute 432-R with an O.S Giken Twin Cam head on an L-block W/Triple 50mm Solex on it. Price would probably come in, under what an S20 build would cost these days and has nearly equal allure (specialness about it) The other build that appeals to me is an L28 with HKS surge tank and turbo charged for that 80s era Wangan racer vibe, but fuel injected (and aesthetic wise, using throttle bodies that give the blow thru carb turbo look). But if I was to do a swap I'd try to ensure everything could be reversed later should I wish to revert to standard. Finding good original cars is really getting difficult and as time goes by the OEM parts are actually becoming increasingly expensive. AM radios, early ash trays, antennas, hub caps, steel wheels, early style valve covers etc.. all drug money now. I really do think if you're looking long term original is the way to go. But that doesn't mean you can't make the car fun also. For example I love Triple carbs on these cars and find SUs a bit pedestrian. But swapping between them isn't a big deal. On my 71 which runs an auto box, I'll keep the SUs and I'm thinking I'll keep the original points distributor but swap the points for a pickup style ignition (like Pertronix) and keep the vacuum advance set up. Where as on my 72 with Triples I haven't got vacuum advance, run an electronic dizzy and will probably add in a CDI box at some point, that car will also get things like LSD, 4.1 ratio rear end, MK63 calipers, Watanabe wheels (or MSpeed Work Rally Mag Replicas) and has Ikeda Bussan Seats, Rally Clock and Datsun Compe wheel. All period correct mods and updates and I find that car a lot more fun and lively to drive, but also less civil, fumey and noisy. Each car has its own personality and character, but that's what's fun about them. Regarding the value of old L engines, I think you'll be surprised in future, I'm seeing less and less available these days and already in Japan I'm seeing pretty high prices for basic blocks. What used to be $200 long motors is now $5k-$6k engines. I think that will eventually ripple through here and in other markets. Nissan used the L-engine for years and in many cars which is good, but try find them now. Only a handful for sale at any given time (if lucky).

I prefer to think of it differently.... we will be like the bikey gang... with those loud obnoxious vehicles. The cool rebels!! But will be more embarrassed when it breaks down the EV with a flat battery? But that is probably just my wishful thinking! I do think EVs have a place in transport of the future. I think a lot of hurdles need to be cleared first... like how to actually make the electricity much cleaner than ICE... and Australia is far from good in this regard. But if we sort it all out and the price is right, I would be happy to use an EV for daily commuting etc. Just not for a recreational weekend fun car. But I am the wrong demographic. I own several nice ICE cars that are far from econoboxs. I typically buy a car based on how much fun I can have in it rather than how practical it is.

Getting close. big reveal with colour photos not far off…Tacho was not functioning to scratch after coming back from having new internals from the instrument maker. It goes back to the instrument maker this week.

This one needs to be saved from its "Cocoon of Doom" https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1973-datsun-240z-manual/SSE-AD-12240726/?Cr=4

This is why I would personally never buy a classic without the view of restoring it. At least he has C.A.R on the job. A lot of other shops would just end up putting makeup on a pig, whereas Locky does it to last.

Hello Queenslanders...... Im looking at buying a car and was hoping there was someone close by who could check out a car (not a Dastun) in Hervey Bay area? Just want a quick eye run over it for obvious rust issues and general condition. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/torquay/cars-vans-utes/volvo-240-wagon/1295741686 Cheers. David

Haha great minds…I was thinking exactly that but just didn’t want to say it.

Decided the "kangaroo damage" to the LH guard was not in my skill set to repair properly and the as new aftermarket one had an indicator cut out which would have to be deleted anyway, so took the original off the car and dropped it at C.A.R. to be repaired properly after which I can look at getting the car's paint stripped and repainted.

7 years ago. Gonna say probably not.

So I needed to make a proper transportation Pre-rotisserie Jig. No more jackstands! Made from 50x50 Mild steel. Found some schematics online and followed them. Naturally, the measurements were a little wrong, so I did need to adjust as i went. It bolts to the base with 4 brackets. Connects to the front & rear diff mounts, gearbox crossmember mount, and when the front clip it is, there's a provision there for the engine crossmember too. Pretty happy with how it turned out, was a little fiddly but its pretty square all around. (+-2mm). Took me around 12~ hours to make. Its definitely nice to manoeuvre the car around the garage very easily! Now i can get to finishing off the firewall patch and floors. I also dropped off all my running gear to Stewart Wilkins motorsport for a full restoration.

I feel an comment from Voldemort, imminent...

“The emphasis was on selling it in America”

Can you please not yell at me

The Holden craze was fueled by FOMO and greed. Market correction for new holdens is on its way if not already here. A lot of people are going to either lose big (except for the W cars which are as rare as rocking horse sh!t) or have to hold onto the cars for a long time to get what they paid for them back.

Perhaps in 50 years the 400z will see relative values to the 240z…but for now, with EVs well and truly in the mainstream, it will be a playstation4 in a playstation5 world….and no one talks about the last of the playstation4’s. but most importantly, what we are forgetting, is how impactful the 400z will be. Will it storm onto the market and blow everything away like the 240z did or will it be another sports car that does more of the same…that will be the difference as to its value in a few decades time.

It's a W58.

Well this might be the reason: And as you would expect from the fuel tank & filter New sender has since been installed and the fuel tank has been cleaned out, dried and re-installed:

Don't laugh at me, wait until I get you to cut my guards............ I also know you now want a V8 Z to go racing in! You heard it here first folks. Full disclosure, Gavin has since driven the car, and thoroughly enjoyed it's quirkiness compared to an Lseries

I can feel the hatred from here! But one tends to wonder, perhap you actually like working on things you despise..... On another note, will you be cutting the guards for the flares on this one?

Got a second set of front end clip panels from over in NZ. They looked great in photos but upon receiving them, the passenger side piece has been cut and re-welded in many different places which is a shame (Black marker lines on the panels are weld lines). Drivers side has a few strange things too but not overall that bad. Mocked it all up today just because of curiosity. Pity it won't align and weld itself together!

Price is more like $10k - perhaps slightly less with the Yen collapsing at the moment. Very cool thing EDIT: First production run is already sold out also.

Interesting reading what everyone has to say about this subject. I'm old enough to have seen the 240Z released way back when! Throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's nearly all who owned a Z car modified them in some way. It's just what happened unfortunately. If only we knew back then what was to come lol I actually owned a 240ZG replica back in the mid 90's. It had a few mods to say the least. Still wish I had it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a tastefully modified 240/260Z or even a 280ZX. There's something about a brake upgrade, lsd, close ratio gearbox, triple webers or even fuel injection that appeals to me still today. I'll even go as far as saying air con and power steering wouldn't be a bad thing. But you get that already with a 280ZX! As far as engines go, I've always been a fan of the L series in all its configurations.

Some great discussion here. It seems the concensus is: Original is always of higher value Mild reversable mods to customise a car to your taste but can be reverted would not devalue a car and would give you more enjoyment of the car Resto-mod is probably more about the tastefulness of the mods and finding a buyer with similar tastes, but on average is lower value. In the right circumstances it may be equivalent value. As suggested above.... my son and I are not doing this for car value reasons. I was just curious what the market place was like now. We have a 2+2 that is partially restored in the direction of restomod. It makes sense for us to continue that way and it what we want anyway. It seems 2+2s are more plentiful and lower value with OK ones sub $50k. We probably plan to spend close to that to complete our restomod. We don't plan to sell it. My personal opinion is it is about the look/feel/sound to me. I prefer the look of a Z with a lower stance than standard and wheels to better fill the guards (with flares). I like the sound of the L series engine or a similar throaty inline 6 that suits the style of the car. I like the feel of some well sorted suspension and nice LSD with a drivetrain with a nice manual gearshift and enough very responsive power to keep up with a modern family sport wagon (0-100kph in 6-7 seconds). That is what I like. I've been spoiled with many powerful cars, and I just get dissappointed when I drive a sporty feeling car what does not feel to me like I am accelerating "briskly". My other cars do 0-100 in sub 4 seconds (ET in the 11s) and have great handling. I don't need our Z to do that. But I want it to keep up with a Commodore V6!! I realise for many the acceleration of a car like this is not the point, but I just find it frustrating driving a fast looking car that is slow. As much as I like a windy road, a significant proportion of my driving is on straighter roads with accelerations from rest to 80-100. I enjoy the shove in the back and rowing the gears with some nice sound.

Rust in the RH door was repaired: Quite a challenging repair and it required a bit of straightening afterwards.

The problem is not so much in the modifying, but the tasteful way to modify. I think the right modification can actually enhance the value of a classic car, but you need to be deep in that community to really know what is desirable / appreciated. That's why so many TV shows that do Resto mods often make a dog's breakfast of it, they haven't spent enough time with hardcore enthusiasts to really understand what mods are desired and fully appreciated. And I'm afraid, many people (not all) who modify cars tend to have questionable taste more often than not. And I'll say my taste is probably not everyone's taste, but that's the problem we all think we know what's cool, and not everyone agrees. I personally think the 240ZG is a great look on these cars, but many (Philistines I call em') don't like the look. So yeah, original is a safe bet and for those who dare, modified can command good money, so long as you don't stray too far from the overall theme and what makes the original car desirable. Example of modifications, which may enhance desirability of the car. https://jdmlegends.com/products/1973-datsun-240z

Is loud and obnoxious necessarily "cool"? Drag cars are loud, are they cool? You can spend a six-figure amount on a Porsche Macan, various Audi RS models or even an R8, they're all loud but again, are they cool? While I'm with you on the EV for transport idea, I think for the recreational vehicle the 'right' sound is appropriate. Very occasionally, a Mk1 Lotus Cortina travels down our street. It's not loud, but geez it mights the right, gurgly Weber noises. Always brings a smile. Early air-cooled 911s aren't loud but they make the right mechanical, whirring fan noises and again, bring a smile. This (while being loud, after all, it's a race car) makes ALL the right noises: GT-R at Fuji This kind of gets back to the original vs. restomod question, which as we know, is open to personal taste, but my vote for the right noises to come out of a Zed involve a modded L-series, an efficient exhaust and triple Solexes or Webers up front. Good discussion by the way! Jeff

You could probably ask this question about any old car, restomods proliferate nowadays but the value will likely be determined by how many other people share the "tasteful" intentions of the modifier. Whereas, original is universal, that's how they were and you can't argue with that. IMHO restomods hold no historic value, whereas original (or modified in a period style) is representative of the era of the car. So, no hard and fast rules as far as I can tell, it's all up the market Jeff

You could be right, but IMHO I think the current z market merely looks like it has plateaued or slowed up due to some of the examples been offered up for sale not really being in top restored condition. Looking at carsales, the pick for me is the orange 260z for about 95k. It’s a beautiful restoration with lots of LCR work under the hood and a full rebuild all round. It’s the only one that looks as though it’s had a full rotisserie in recent times. The others look perfectly fine but I think the average price we are currently seeing is for cars that have mild/little restoration work done on them. I think if 3 concourse condition 240’s were to hit carsales tomorrow they would exist in the 130-150 bracket and that would alter peoples perceptions of where the market is truly at. OR, I could be totally wrong and have my head up my ar$e.