Convert a 2+2 to a 2 seater - discuss.

[MaygZ]

Can someone please clarify for me?  Whilst I've always been told that firewall forward they are the same, it appears from these pictures that the rear of the front guards are wider on the 2+2.  Is this illusion or fact?

[benny]

Can someone please clarify for me?  Whilst I've always been told that firewall forward they are the same, it appears from these pictures that the rear of the front guards are wider on the 2+2.  Is this illusion or fact?

 

 

illusion

[Sirpent]

So if the 2-seat vs 2+2 windscreen posts lean back at differing angles, are the windscreens themselves (the glass) still the same? ie interchangeable?

 

In the words of the legend Murray Walker

 

"Unless I am very much mistaken"

 

There is no difference in rake period

[Patch]

John if you check the photo of the 2 chrome strips together you can see the difference in the angle of the roof line and the window posts. also check the photo of my T-top 240z  it has the 2+2 chrome strip clipped on to show the different angles, looking again  the roof line is higher.

[Retro Z]

But wont the chrome strip just dictate the curve of the rain channel itself not necessarly the roof slope?

[gav240z]

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/22031-chopped-240z-for-sale/

http://www.datsunclassifieds.com/showproduct.php/product/6088/title/chopped-240z/cat/1

 

Looks kind of wrong on this 240z hence definitely needs some kind of planning and measuring to make sure the aspect ratio is correct.

 

 

[Sirpent]

This is so wrong in more ways than one.

 

If you look closely the cut has been done at the bottom end of the window pillars, hence bringing the A pillar back and inwards, how you are supposed to get a door gap to the pillar is incomprehensible and that can be seen by how the window frame on the door has been manipulated to try and achieve just that, I doubt you would ever get the windows to operate again.

 

Bar this the fact that the pillars would now be some 40 mm inwards and back would mean that the dash would need to be reworked.

 

When doing a chop like this, the turret must be sectioned diagonally along the length and width therefore maintaining the pillar positions, as the turret therefore goes down to the new pillar height each sectioned corner moves outward, finally fillet sections are laid into the voids.

 

Only this way can the window pillars and door symmetry be maintained. 

[Mr Camouflage]

But wont the chrome strip just dictate the curve of the rain channel itself not necessarly the roof slope?

 

Exactly. Anything that happens after the bend in the gutter trim is not a valid reference point of the rake of the front pillars.

 

Now if you had 2 door window frames and could compare the angle from the vertical part inside the door to the angle of the bit along side the front pillar... That would give you a more accurate gauge of rake differences, if there are any.

[Sirpent]

Guys lets take this theme viral

 

Instead of chopping the top, lets crop the rear, extend the front, get a better weight distribution and stick a dirty quad turbo Peter Mc built V12 in the front  then dress it up with flared guards and a deep front airdam.

[PeterAllen]

Getting a bit off the topic but some of the GTOs in the US do extend the 2 seater wheelbase via repositioning the front cross-member so that the rearward mounting holes in the cross-member are fitted to the front chassis holes and new front holes created. The front shock towers are unpicked (spotweld remover) and the tower moved 100mm forward to match the new position of the crossmember. There are some rollbar mounting and steering shaft mods to be done and inner guard touchups required, but basically it seems to work quite well. I have an instruction manual on how it's all done.

 

Here is a Canadian example.

[zzzzed]

how about this one

[Patch]

Peter Allan asked if I could line the cars up with the front wheels as they were only lined up with the front bumpers, someone else may be interested as well.

[chartoo]

This last chop looks like a 350z

[RBZ 260]

interesting discussion.

 

Peter to make an exact replica of a 2 seater like most guys said it ain't worth it. but i believe it is possible to improve the profile of the 2+2.

 

Just before i wrote of my 2+2, I was planing on making the 260z nicer on profile.

 

As I had issue with my sunroof and wanted to remove it i was planing in removing the hump and modifying the rear 1/4 glass to suit so it looks more sleek like a 240z does.

 

I spent lot of time thinking,measuring and photoshoping this idea. Even had all the parts ready to do the update. (photoshoping was done using same size pic of a 240z profile and matching as it was on my window mock up in real so pretty close to what it will look like).

 

Stage 1.

 

The gutter line is somewhat following the line of the 240z just longer. If you look carefully on the 240z the rear section the roof height is similar height  from gutter line from windscreen all the way to the rear hatch.

 

On the 260z 2+2 the front section is similar to 240z in height but drastically increases 5cm or so into the roof. at the back u got almost 1.5" of extra height for the back seats.

 

To do this i would have carefully cut the roof line with a dremel tool (or equivalent small cut off disk. you don't want heat to distort the roof ) take the hump part out. Lower the rear tailgate subframe (the inner panel) accordingly. if cut properly and  on correct angle the roof line should follow the new contour of the gutter lip. the lips will be need to extend as well to take into account the new 1/4 glass.

Trim the top part of the rear 1/4 panels to suit the new roof line.

(seen this done on one of the hot rod doco's in USA which gave me the initial idea) basically just lowering the roof skin.

 

Stage 2.

 

Tailgate will have to be slightly modified as well to follow the new roofline. Few hrs with hammer and dolly would get it into shape.

 

Stage 3.

 

using 2 seater rear 1/4 glass and 2+2.

Replace the rear end of the 2+2 with the 2 seater version to get that unique notched rear.

To do this:

Place the 240z glass over the 2+2 one till the both top and bottom part of the 240z glass aligns up with the 2+2. Mark it and cut and shut the two pieces. You will notice the glass is slightly longer. hence the reason for extending the gutter slightly more to accommodate it.

since its straight glass no rear curve to it. make a template out of correct thickness plywood and take it to glass people to cut u a new one.. i was quoted approx $50each.

 

Stage 4.

 

Modifying the rear 1/4 panels to suit the new 1/4 glass.

 

this could be done few different ways.

 

easiest would be to get the same section of a 2 seater. cut and shut it in. and  your done.

 

alternatively is to cut the 1/4 panel and make a new lip following the new 1/4 glass.  bit more for the skilled.

 

 

On the end should look like this

 

Before

 

 

After

 

Its not for the faint hearted or people with low panel beating skills. It would be fairly involved but in my opinion very "dooable" for an average panel beater (a breeze for an old school panel beater) .

 

It be very unique without actually touching any structural part of the car. What I didn't mention is the mods required to inside trimming as well  but if you got through the first 4 stages that will be easy. 

 

Pitty I never got to do it. Both of my cars now are 2 seaters so no need.

 

Maybe one day when all my project are finished is to do up another 2+2 with this in mind and few other crazy ideas I have bouncing in my silly head. (got to stop watching hot rod shows give me bad ideas  )

 

If anyone is serious about this I will gladly share more info.

 

PS: Mick that photochop wouldnt work 2+2 door glass is lot higher at the back than the 2 seater. plus looks erm ........ yeah. stay away from photo chopping please

 

[Lukas]

Thought i'd jump on this. I've often wondered how a modified/chopped 280zx 2+2 would look (Makes me sad the 2-seater wasn't sold here...). In the end i think it would make more sense to just import a 2 seater.

 

I did have a go at photoshopping a 260 2+2 though . I haven't put the extensive thought that RBZ 260 has in to his, but I'm sure with enough time & money you could manage it .

 

Mod List:

 

- Modified roofline

- Lowered

- Deleted rear bumper

- Custom front spoiler

- Tinted windows

- Awesome lense flare

 

Thanks to RBZ for the source image.

[Sirpent]

Then shorten it, and delete the 1/4 glass and we have a Mustang contender

[RBZ 260]

John that actualy looks damn good.Never thought of deleting the 1/4 window or shortening just the rear 1/4 panels all possible.

 

hmmmmm any cheap rough 2+2 around?

(gets slapped by the missus) finish the stuff u got going allready! Lol

 

 

 

[Sirpent]

LOL Johnny,

 

You and I always agree.

 

With all love and respect to the 2+2 boys, if I had a TRAGIC bus, I reckon this would be an interesting alternative, it takes JAP and gives it some American Muscle looks.

 

I was surprised also.

[Six_Shooter]

I'm not a fan of deleting windows, in any car, especially the 240Z.

[Zedback]

10 years ago there was some discussion of streamlining the 2+2 roof line.  Don’t know if anyone else has, but I finally got around to making it work.  Have to finish the rest of the rust repairs before the certifier will sign it off.

[260DET]

Brilliant! Great to see someone doing something outside the box for a change and making it work too.

[Cozza]

wow, impressive.

I bet that was a lot of work, would you mind posting some more pics and info to show what you have done.
 

[Zedback]

Thank, yes it’s a fair bit of work but if you’re hatch hinge panel and/or rear of the roof is rusted out anyway then it’s not much extra at all.  Just don’t forget to brace the opening and record lots of measurements.

You’re aiming to tilt the entire hatch opening by about 2 degrees and lower the rear of the roof by about 50mm.  Virtually all the work is on the inner c-pillar to get the frame and hatch hinge panel to lower.  The roof ends up about 50mm shorter too.  

I’ve done it two ways now:

1st without separating the rear quarters from the hatch frame (hard work) and a c-pillar chop (below) 

2nd time I cut them free along the top rim and rolled, trimmed and welded them back on after drilling out all the c-pillar to hatch frame spot welds and bending and trimming the c-pillar top edge until the frame was low enough (white car).

 

[gilltech]

So, just out of interest, how did you deal with the side window, smaller presumably and fixed glass like the 2-seater?

[Zedback]

Side/quarter windows are unchanged, everything fits and works normally. The roof rails, inner c-pillar forward of the hatch hinge panel is unchanged. 

On the rust/grey Z the quarter panels are slightly modified where they meet the roof - where they were rusted out anyway.

On the white car the rear quarters were slit along their entire upper edge to allow the frame to drop, pulled in to fit and trimmed 10-15mm before welding back on.