Neuby's red rota'd 240Z

[gav240z]

I wonder if it's the petronix unit itself that is causing you grief?

 

[krizza]

Gav, from what I understand the pertronix will not be an issue in this type of setup as it is only being used as a CAS. The Megasquirt will be controlling timing and dwell etc.

I did think about going with an MSD CDI setup and using the Pertronix as the trigger, but in the end I decided I didn't need the CDI for my relatively stock setup (stock motor with 40DCOEs) and wanting to keep my stock tacho working I went with the XR700 instead.

[gav240z]

Thanks Krizza, I'm a newbie with all this ignition stuff, so really just watching to learn and throwing out ideas..

[Aaron Neubauer]

Thanks guys.

There could be hundred reasons why the car is behaving the way it is.  Sometimes with the right (or wrong) culmination of parameters an anomaly occurs.  I’m not overly fussed as long as come dyno time the engine makes more power not less.

I have considered a distributorless wasted spark COP ignition before embarking on this project.  I wonder if there is value in a comparison series between distributor and COP?

[Aaron Neubauer]

Off the back of pre-tuning experience I thought I’d combine the LM2 WBO2 into the Megasquirt so I could log all my data in Tunerstudio.  Why have two screens to look at while tuning right?

It was a pretty simply process simply wiring the analog output 1 from the LM2 to the DB37 harness.

I did have to calibrate the Megasquirt to match the LM2 AFR outputs which I pulled form the LM2 using Logworks.  The prefilled Innovate Motorsport WBO2 sensors in Tunerstudio did not match the LM2.  I think it was 7.32 @ 0v and 22.39 @ 5v.

So ready for some tuning.  But first I want to make a digital det-can beforehand just to check the strange ignition behaviour of the motor.  Stay tuned.

[Aaron Neubauer]

Following on from the strange ignition behaviour I thought it worth making up a cheap digital det can / engine stethoscope to aid in determining if something more serious was happening.  I drew inspiration for an old Autospeed.com article I read probably around 2001.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0353

The basis was the Jaycar ‘bionic ear’ Short Circuits kit aimed at junior electronics.  This kit had all I needed only requiring a few little bits and pieces to customise. The kit was assembled as per instructions and recommendations in the Short Circuits 2 guide.  I simply lengthen the single core screened microphone cable and fixed it to a battery clamp.

I tested it on my TD5 Defender daily and I could hear plenty of extra noises in that motor that’s for sure!  As the kit uses a electret microphone it picked up all the noise.  I think I will find it hard to isolate specific sounds, detonation being a primary one.  For a first round its not bad though and I think I will gradually improve it over time such as switch to a piezo transducer and perhaps an alternate amplifier board.

As soon as I can get some Penrite Super DOT 4 brake fluid to replace my stock and bleed the brakes, which is proving difficult in my ‘regional’ area, it’ll be road tuning time!

[gav240z]

Just wondering why you built a knock sensor rather than just bought an OEM 1 designed to pick up knock frequencies. I would have thought with the megasquirt you could easily wire it up and be able to see knock show up pretty easily that way?

Or is half the fun building the electronic stuff yourself? (Which I understand). I'm actually worried that I'd struggle with the junior electronics kits lol.

[Aaron Neubauer]

I put it down to if I can cheaply make it (or something like it...), why buy it?  And I *might* be a little too frugal.

If the DIY det can proves unsuccessful I’ll probably end up getting one of these:

http://theknockbox.com.au/

[Aaron Neubauer]

What started as a bleed of the brakes has evolved into a brake system rebuild.

As long as I can remember the right drum brake cylinder bleed nipple has been sheared off at the base.  It’s one of those things that I’ve know about but never actioned fobbing off to do it next time.  No excuses now.  Time to fix it.

The end game brake goal for this car is a set of Sumitomo MK63 font calipers to retain the standard master cylinder.  Not sure if vented or solid rotor.  I guess this will be dependant on what’s available.  I’m not in a rush to get a pair and considering it is likely to come from Japan I’ll wait until a good deal surfaces.

I’ve have a spare pair of Sumitomo S16 cailpers and rebuild kits plus brake pads to cover off on the fronts.  The rear drum brake cylinders look new so I’ll get some rebuild kits for those.

The master cylinder I will remove and send away to be stainless steel sleeve which should make it good for life.

I am bummed that tuning is on hold but it is important to have road worthy car.

[Aaron Neubauer]

So, I came across some RB30 optical dizzies in my spares and I thought “I wonder if this will fit the 240?”.  I’ve seen at least one photo of an RB30 distributor on an L series before and I think it’s doable.

While the locked standard distributor works well enough, and optical cam angle sensor can allow me to use COP ignition.  I have a 12-1 chopper disc that replaces the 360+6 standard disc made by DIYAutoTune.  Depending on the ECU, this chopper disc can be used for 4 cylinder COP applications as well.

I’m not sure if I should be shamed, I onced owned and modified a two tone gold VL Calais Turbo which was a beast when it ran and I found the optical distributor to be very realisable.

Anyways, see the video below for the initial checks before I get too carried away with the idea...

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Back to rebuilding the brake system this week.

I decided to stick with drums on the rear.  Having made that decision both the rear brake cylinders and brake MC will be sleeved to last longer than I will.

So the rear brake cylinders and MC came out easy enough.  The left side brake cylinder is properly frozen, not even the adjuster nut came out with ‘hammer time’ persuasion.  

I thought that I’d need to get new rear cylinders but after a chat with chap (after the youtube video was made) who will be handling the sleeving, the sleeving workshop can get anything apart.  So rear brakes and MC have been posted away.  I’m looking forward to the results!

[Aaron Neubauer]

Its been a while since my last post about this car.

The brakes have been rebuilt.  You can see those videos on the channel.  In summary for the brakes:

•    Rear drum cylinders and MC were sent to South Coast Brake Resleevers
•    The MC was stuffed but the resleevers had a NOS MC lying around so I got that which I’m chuffed about!
•    Rear drum cylinders were resleeved to a high quality cause they were shagged
•    I rebuilt the front calipers myself
So the brakes are on and bleed but I have not go little red off the blocks just yet.

I really want to use the optical dizzy that Gav gifted me.  I had one big cost hang up that ultimately determine if I used the optical dizzy or used a CAS from One Six Industries and wastes spark and that was the turbo oil pump drive.  

Nissan dealerships and Nissan Australia parts had not had one in stock for over 20 years.  Getting one from somewhere the US was pushing upwards of $200USD.  I was getting sad.  Lucky enough I came across a new product post from Kameari who had decided to make there own when the genuine item price increased.

The Kameari unit cost ¥11,000 which was heaps cheaper than any other pump drive. I put my order in and it turned up pretty quickly.  So project optical distributor has commenced in full!

See the video here:

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Its always frustrating when things don’t go to plan.  All the parts arrived to rebuild the distributor much faster than what I was advised and I had the dizzy housing PBM blasted and scrubbed to a raw appearance.  I really like to look of the housing.

 

I’m still hesitant to commmit to swapping the oil pump drive shaft to the turbo shaft until I know for certain that this dizzy works.  So the dizzy was put back together and mock wired to the Megasquirt for an RPM signal simulation.  No dice. Didn’t work. Nothing.  I suspect the new crank angle sensor is not a functioning unit but will require more investigation.

 

So looks like another few weeks without tuning the ignition for the car unless I put the old Pertronix L24 distributor back in.  All I want to see is if I can crack 200rwhp on SU carbs....

 

 

[gav240z]

Sorry mate, that's why I gave you the distributor for free. I couldn't charge you for it knowing it was going to need quite a bit of work to make it function. I hope you get it to work though.

[Aaron Neubauer]

18 hours ago, gav240z said:

Sorry mate, that's why I gave you the distributor for free. I couldn't charge you for it knowing it was going to need quite a bit of work to make it function. I hope you get it to work though.

Not a worry Gav!  I’ve tested the CAS in isolation and it’s not working properly.  The megasquirt board functions properly when tested on the JimStim.  It would not be the first time a new CAS doesn’t work.  Over the decades of having VL turbos and distributor based SR20s, I’ve found literal 50% of all new CAS for optical nissan distributors seem to be faulty.

[260DET]

Great thread, surprised that there is not more interest coming from the L heads.

[gav240z]

Yes I agree. Clapped out 40+ year old ignition systems vs programmable ignition curves whilst still running carbs etc.. sounds good to me.

[Aaron Neubauer]

I bit of perseverance (and a new CAS haha) has paid off!

 

I have a functioning L20ET distributor that my Megasquirt MS1 can read.  I fiddled with a few mods to the board taken from a few sites that have V3.0 board info.  Ultimately I could have left the mods at removal of C12, C30, D1 and D2 but I left one of the diodes in as backflow protection.  I didn’t need a pull up resistor but I left the one I had installed from the S12c pad.

 

The Fuelmiser crank angle sensor Sparebox first sent was faulty through bench testing.  Sparebox quickly replaced it which was great.  I slapped the dizzy back together with the DYIAutoTune 12-1 trigger wheel which means I can run COP later if I choose.

 

The next step for me is to swap in the turbo oil pump drive with the engine in the car.  It’s the one item of work I have been putting off for obvious reasons haha!

 

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

So I tackled the one task to do with the optical dizzy swap that I had procrastinated.  I swapped the turbo oil pump drive spindle with the engine still in the car.

 

The swap itself isn’t hard just a little awkward.  I threw the process into a tutorial style vid ‘cause I thought it might help someone....one day....

 

I got in contact with Mori-san from Kameari Race Works about a substitute for the missing splined collar on the dizzy and a newly manufacturer collar is on its way.  Once the collar is here there is no excuse stopping the final ignition tune!

 

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Its been a long time between drinks!

 

So the L20ET dizzy is back together and the car runs.  I've been working on a safe ignition map good enough to run on the dyno as part of the 200rwhp experiment.

 

I'm pretty chuffed with the map.  It feels torque when the cam kicks in.  Total advance is 36degrees.  If I had some dyno time and a proper knock sensor I reckon I could get 40 degrees to work.

Anyway, heres the update video!

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by gav240z
Fixed video display

[jeff43]

g'day Aaron, I'm enjoying watching your videos. I'm keen to see how the car goes when it is next on the dyno and glad that you were pleased with the feel of the engine on the road. I'm following a similar path with a stock L24 in my car but I'm a little behind you. I have shoe horned an RB30 CAS into a 240Z distributor and using a Haltech PS500 ECU. Just waiting for the rotor button mount to be machined up before I can fit and begin tuning. Keep at it, I'm looking forward to the next step as that is where I plan to go also. Cheers Jeff.

[Aaron Neubauer]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:49 AM, jeff43 said:

g'day Aaron, I'm enjoying watching your videos. I'm keen to see how the car goes when it is next on the dyno and glad that you were pleased with the feel of the engine on the road. I'm following a similar path with a stock L24 in my car but I'm a little behind you. I have shoe horned an RB30 CAS into a 240Z distributor and using a Haltech PS500 ECU. Just waiting for the rotor button mount to be machined up before I can fit and begin tuning. Keep at it, I'm looking forward to the next step as that is where I plan to go also. Cheers Jeff.

I've heard of an RB30 CAS fitting an L series distributor but seeing it is finally proof.  How much modification did you need to do to fit?

[Aaron Neubauer]

Hey all.

 

Not a lot has progressed on the 240Z.  Only a bit more refinement with the ignition map on the Megasquirt really.  I’m almost happy enough to hit the same dyno to see if my tweaks pay off.  I have had the suggestion of swapping out the SB needles to TF needles which I am contemplating but I want more logged data to inform my choice.

With the time away from working on the car it has given me time to think.  I’ve decided to convert to EFI.  I’m excited to be working with Whitley Tune as a guinea pig for a future ‘Sports Injection’ kit for the L6.

I’ve got a 3D printed test runner, throttle body and trumpet to clearance in the car.  End to end it’s 410mm based on a third harmonic of approximately 5500 rpm.  It is suitable for a second harmonic of approximately 7700rpm but I doubt building a head for that is in my capability but I might swap cam and work a head to be as efficient as possible for the third harmonic.  Throttle bodies are Ø50mm straight bore butterfly.  Have a look at the video below to get a feel for the runners, they’re a lot bigger in real life.

The Megasquirt MS1 is pretty underpowered and can manage two banks of batch fire injectors at best.  I will wire a bank of injectors corresponding with the banks of primary runners from my Zstory exhaust manifold using dual WBO2 to run closed loop target AFR maps.

Ignition will remain as the 12-1 trigger disc L20ET distributor with MSD 6AL.  I may change to COP at a later stage as an experiment but for now, if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.

I am at a cross road for fuel supply.  I have a Bosch 050 I had planned to use in conjunction with a surge tank and existing Holley Red as a lift pump.  I have seen a few in tank EFI pump options.  Has anyone used an aftermarket in tank pump?  I’m interested in any experiences.  The tank will come out for rehabilitation anyway.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Neuby
YT link didn't embed

[Aaron Neubauer]

I hope you are all well considering the state of things.

Time to see if the ITB setup will fit!  Whitley Tune has sent me a 3D printed runner, ITB and trumpet of cylinder 6 to test in the engine.  Cylinder 6 was identified as the critical runner in a RHD drive car and it turned out to be.

I use the stock battery and I’ll either relocate the battery or change to a smaller more efficient battery.  There is about 10mm between the bottom lip of the trumpet and the battery.  That’ll affect the performance of cylinder 6.

I’m not sure that I will be able dyno the twin SU setup without holding up the EFI build with everything going on.  We will have to see.

Link to Whitley Tune’s information doc: https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5bad6feacfdca44aacb6ee99/5e76ba431ede366a96b6d8ae_WT Sports Injection.pdf

[Aaron Neubauer]