Subaru R180 - Clutch Plate vs Torsen, same spline count and length ?? And what stub axle ?

[1600dave]

I'm in need of a new diff, looing at Subaru R180's. Going back thru old threads, I haven;t been able to confirm for sure what R180 the stub axle adapters fit ?Do any / all of the readily available stub axles adapters to run standard Datsun halfshafts fit both clutch plate and torsen diffs ? Or just one or the other ?

And what are the current options for the adapters ? Kameari / USA / ????

My old diff was an RX turbo R160, bolts straight in, but sadly I've broken the LSD housing itself. RX turbo diffs are impossible to find nowadays so I'm thinking if I lash out on a pair of the stub axles, next time I break it I can just grab a new R180 and chuck it in.

[1600dave]

To answer my own question - yep, seems that both Subaru R180 clutch and torsen type LSD centres utilise the same output shafts.

Or at least the Torsen style R180 from a 2018 manual WRX works with the Kameari shafts. And a plug for Kameari (and Fedex I guess) - ordered Xmas Eve, arrived on my doorstep this morning, $550 all up including post. Add in the $125 for the diff and the scrooge in me is very happy !

Edited December 29, 2021 by 1600dave

[1600dave]

And done. Ready to hit the track in 2 weeks time.

 

 

[gav240z]

Nice, how hard are the Subaru R180 LSD's to find these days?

Good to see Kameari offering simple hub adaptors.

I'd like to find a Subaru R180 LSD in 4.11 gearing.

[1600dave]

Incredibly easy to find in Torsen 4.44, I haven't seen a 4.11 R180 (other Subaru ratio seems to be 3.9, mostly in clutch pack LSD's).

When I was looking before Xmas I had a choice of half a dozen ranging from $125 up to $600. $250-400 seems about average to buy from a wrecker, from what I can see manual WRX's from 2007 onwards seem to have them, at least the 2.5l engined ones did, not sure about 2.0l ones.

The ones that you need are labelled "HC" - although as always, do your own research...

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 1600dave

[vosadrian]

I come from a Subaru background. I have a GC8 WRX with the drivetrain from a 2.5L 05 STi. This means I have an R180 with a clutch type plated LSD. It is 3.54 as the centre diff has a 1.1:1 output to the rear, so it is effectively 3.9 (this is common in many Subarus). It is fantastic. I do lots of motorports in it with an emphasis on motorkhana, so drifting it around cones. The plated rear diff transformed my car. I actually converted the front and centre diffs first (in the gearbox) and did a few events with the original rear diff (R160 viscous LSD), and it really drove no differently to stock. The I put in the plated rear, and it was chalk and cheese. 

I do not know about these torsen diffs. I have driven many WRXs on the skidpan including late model 2.5s (as I do driver training), and I have never found the later one very different to early Viscous LSD WRXs..... but the cars with plated rears always drive much better. I am curious why you consider the Torsen to be a better option that the plated clutch type LSDs?

My son and I are doing a 260Z 2+2 project car and will want to upgrade the rear diff at some point. It seems natural for me to go to Subaru since I know it. I just wanted to check if my original thoughts of plated were wrong as I know little about these Torsen options.

[1600dave]

I guess I should have said "The ones you need if you want a Torsen are labelled HC" - I don't claim they are "better", but they are way cheaper and more available. I've run a plated R160 in the same ratio for the last 10 years, and would have gone with another one if I could find one, sadly not too many Subie RX turbo's around anymore to raid for the rear diff. 

Even if I did find a plated R180, I'd have to buy the adapters anyway. The diff was $125 so if it works, great, if not I can go on the hunt for something better down the track and still use the adapters I bought. Car is only used on the track, hillclimbs and motorkhana's on the SMSP wet skidpan (when we don't get evicted by V8 Supercars taking over the track like the last two motorkhanas I've been involved in organising  ).

Anyway, it will be a good comparison between Torsen and plated, I'm running the same ratio I always have, only difference will be the type of LSD centre.

Or I just break out the welder.......

Edited February 2, 2022 by 1600dave

[hmd]

A very cost effective way to get LSD r180.

 

the old school 4.4 or 4.1 $600 if you can get them

get a KAAZ LSD $1500

labour to install LSD into diff $300

[1600dave]

Yep, I'm up to $600-odd for diff and adapters. If I break another diff, just go to a Subaru wrecker, grab another one and away I go again. I'm probably going to grab another one anyway just to have "in stock" while they are readily available. Wish I'd bought a few RX turbo diffs when I had the chance.

4.44 is also a perfect ratio for me, I don't have the power to pull a 4.1 or taller gear.

This is what's left of the LSD centre in the old R160, crownwheel flange splitting off nearly half way round after a bolt backed out. Made a few decent bangs, then locked up completely and skidded to a stop, luckily while I was heading back to the pits. 60 seconds previously, I was doing 180 down conrod straight, not sure I want to think about what would have happened if it locked both back wheels then.....

 

[vosadrian]

I got my plated R180 in my WRX as part of a complete package including the entire drivetrain of an 06 Sti (not 05) as in my first post). The package I got was expensive, but it has been an excellent setup for me. I have had it in the car for >10 years and it has done probably >50 skidpans at eastern creek with at least 2 drivers for most events. The only thing I break is rear drive shafts and front outer CV joints. I don't know how much the diff is worth, but probably expensive. I will keep an eye out for one for the Z.

@1600dave, I think you will find the torsen will not drive as well as the plated diff you had previously, but I am interested to see what you think! 

When are you at the SMSP skidpan next? I have a WRX event this saturday evening.

[1600dave]

I was scheduled to do an event on the 6th March but we got kicked out when Supercars took over SMSP for that whole weekend after they moved the opening V8's round from Newcastle. Same thing happened for our last motorkhana back in November. Looks like they've given us a Saturday later in March to make up for it, currently making sure all our officials are available on the alternate date before we lock it in.

I own an MX5 so go with the NSW MX5 club. For the last few years, I've been running their motorkhanas as the Clerk of Course so haven't competed as much as I used to (and as much as I'd like to). We usually do 3 club motorkhanas a year, plus run a round of the state championship. I've also run evening events there with the Sydney Datsun Club, although "motorkhana" isn't exactly the correct term to describe those events.....