Position of chasis number on a late 260Z.

[Bobby]

Everything I have read says the chasis number should be on the firewall above the brake master cylinder.

My car does not have any number there and the firewall does look original.

It does have a number stamped into the top of the drivers side strut tower  V782105P

This number has no relation to the engine number or the car number.(taken from the small tag located just near the battery).

I did a revs check before buying the car and all was okay.

Any ideas?

 

[C.A.R.]

I have seen another couple of S30 chassis cars missing the chassis number on the firewall - no idea why this is, though.

The V number stamped into the strut tower is a Police issue chassis number why would have been stamped to identify the vehicle - and that would go towards explaining the missing factory chassis number.

Edited July 17, 2019 by C.A.F.

[Bobby]

Thanks for your time C.A.F.

The drivers side all look original but I feel the left side may have been replaced from the firewall forward.

I bought the car in NSW in 2016.

[gav240z]

It could have been a stolen / recovered car?

Only difference on late 260z's I've seen is that the ID plate doesn't have the engine no. So no such thing as matching no's on those.

On LHD cars the VIN is on the opposite side (guessing your car is not a LHD car originally?).

[gav240z]

 

[Bobby]

Thanks very much for your time.

I haven't been loosing sleep about it but was just wondering why.

Gav240Z I have just read the article you had put together and I feel mine is different again.

I don't know the build date of my car because a rivet had been put through the number after 197 but back in March I went to the historics at Phillip island (for my 40th wedding anniversary) and was talking to some fellows running in regularity with 240/260's and they said because of my door latch type, the style of the door jamb  and not having the interior air holes in the inner guard just behind the radiator support panel then it must be 1976 or later.

My identification tag(from near battery) list the engine number and car number (RS30-015008) and the compliance plate has this car number as well.

So from these tags it is possible to confirm I have a matching engine number to the original car number.

Very interesting but still no explanation why they didn't stamp a chasis number on the firewall.

[gav240z]

4 hours ago, Bobby said:

because of my door latch type, the style of the door jamb  and not having the interior air holes in the inner guard just behind the radiator support panel then it must be 1976 or later.

Yes the later style latch and the lack of inner guard ducts for the air vents means 76/77 build date.

Unfortunately I don't have a collection of data on GRS30s and RS30s, I've been busy enough trying to compile data for HS30s, so if it was an HS30 I'd be able to confirm if Engine No. / VIN # are in the correct ranges etc.. but alas with RS30s unless we start collecting data it's a bit difficult.

 I'm attaching a page from the Australian market parts manual.  The manual is available to donating members (nudge nudge *wink* *wink*) here.

From the chart it shows 

RS30-015008 would fall in the July/August 76 build date range.

July 76 = 15000
Aug 76 = 15001

Aug 77 = 021000
Sep 77 = 021001

It seems weird to me that the range only indicates 1 car built in the months of July/August 76 and Aug / Sep 77... but maybe there was a tooling change over and focus on other markets during those periods of time? I know RS30 production was low compared with HS30s, since 2+2s were out selling the 2 seaters at the time.

@HS30-H do you have any idea why they would bother to list a range for 1 car in the manual like this? 

[gav240z]

Actually perhaps I'm over thinking it or looking at it wrong.

 Aug 75 010001 - Jul 76 15000 so anything between those ranges was built between August 75 and July 76 and specification wise should be the same.

In August 76 there was a set of changes beginning with 0150001.

So that would make your car part of those August 76+ changes and built probably in August 76 - given it's the 8th car after those changes. Those changes are the things noted like the door latch being different, the fresh air ducts being moved in the front radiator support area and other subtle differences like the typeface on the gauges (was slightly thicker) etc..

@HS30-H Alan can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these changes are around the time the S31 was introduced in Japan, which was a 2ltr L20A powered car but many of the design changes etc.. will be similar across markets (280z in US, late 260z in Australia and later Fairlady Z in Japan).

[HS30-H]

6 hours ago, gav240z said:

July 76 = 15000
Aug 76 = 15001

Aug 77 = 021000
Sep 77 = 021001

It seems weird to me that the range only indicates 1 car built in the months of July/August 76 and Aug / Sep 77... but maybe there was a tooling change over and focus on other markets during those periods of time? I know RS30 production was low compared with HS30s, since 2+2s were out selling the 2 seaters at the time.

@HS30-H do you have any idea why they would bother to list a range for 1 car in the manual like this?

Don't overthink this kind of thing. They don't mention days of the month, so it could easily mean 31st July 1976, and 31st August 1977 respectively. It's not a whole month's worth of production in either case, and production wasn't necessarily linear or 'On/Off' switch with either maximum capacity or nothing.  

The car in question WILL have left the factory with a full production number engraved (they were not stamped) in the usual place - on the firewall, above the master cylinders. No exceptions for standard production road cars in the S30/S31 series to be sold to the general public, so something has happened to the car and it has lost its original firewall-engraved number.

I can't imagine what kind of situation would require the replacement of the firewall or a large number-bearing section of it, but - having seen all sorts of beastliness in the past - I'd be suspicious and want to investigate further. The stamped V number on the strut tower must relate to something that you can look into (via NSW Police?) and I guess it must have been checked out, but I'd want to get to the bottom of it. First thing I'd do would be to take off the cowl panel and look at the inside of the firewall above the master cylinders. I'd be curious to see what it reveals... 

 

[Andrew_L26]

Hey mate, I would suspect that this is a "police issued number" due to body parts being replaced, stolen and recovered or something similar.

Bit more info here:

http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/25502-police-chassis-numbers/

http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/43484-police-isued-chassis-numbers/

 

"My SLR5000 has a VP number, but Police and VicRoads records don't indicate that it has ever been stolen. The first two numbers after the"V" are the year that the new number was allocated. V03####P is 2003. Mine is V76####P, so 1976. "

 

Hope this helps!

[Bobby]

Thanks very much for all of the thoughts/advice.

The firewall looks to be original to me so when the car goes back to the panel beater I will ask his opinion.

Also when we strip the paint off in the engine bay it may reveal something.

From what Andrew-L26 is saying my new number was issued in 1978 when the car was built in 1976 from what gav240z is saying.

Anyway I was just wondering. At least it is legal.

[gav240z]

I'm glad you're not stressed about it, these cars have plenty of history, good and bad.

Just wondering if you've spoken to the previous owner? Or owners?

Is there any documentation / registration papers that show the VP number?

I would speak to the RMS about it too, ask them if the VP number can tell you anything etc.. although when it comes to older cars I think records are sketchy.

I'd love to know someone who works for our motor registration authorities. In the UK you can look up aggregated data on how many specific cars are left on the road etc.. but our orgs don't give us access to that and I don't think we have a national database. Seems they are all gated between the states.

I'd love to look up who the previous owners of a couple of my cars were.. but again all that data is simply not available 

[Bobby]

Hello Gavin. The previous owner had this car on club plates but mainly used the car as a club level race car at Wakefield.

I don't think he would have any previous knowledge as I asked him about an issue I discovered after buying the car and he claimed to have no knowledge of it.

Also from what Andrew-L26 is saying the new number was stamped in 1978 when the car was only two years old.

I have just had a look in the area where HS30-H said to look and can't see anything.

I also tried shining a torch at an angle across the area where the original stamping should be to see if it highlighted anything. It didn't.

My club rego is due for renewal in the next month so I will ask at the RTA if they have any knowledge of history.

Currently the car is a bare shell and as I said previously the firewall welds all look factory to me.