Bilstein Shock Inserts

[Post-Ironic]

Hey guys,

I've been in the process of chasing up shock inserts for my struts and came across a few potentially interesting things, as well as some questions.

According to the guys at HybridZ Bilstein inserts to suit a VW Rabbit Cabriolet (P30-0032) work on standard 51mm 240Z struts both front and rear when sectioned correctly. According to the fellow I spoke to at Bilstein Aus, the P30-0032 was some sort of a strange race homoligation insert that they haven't produced for years - he told me that they have a near identical insert available off the shelf in the form of the P30-0137 (quoted $560 per pair). The only difference between them is apparently valving?

However, upon further digging it seems the P30-0137 is a HD shock rather than a Sport shock. I've seen a bunch of claimed differences between the two types, with pretty much everything being hearsay. This has ranged from different travel rates to different sized internal bump stops.

I was wondering if any of you have had experience with Bilsteins in general; HD vs Sport or a difference between these two particular part #'s.

I'm certainly not the most well-versed in this sort of stuff, though I have read through pretty much all of the S30 related stuff I could find on the forums. Have considered the MCA option, however, I already have the Otomoto HSD adjustable kit and access to a skilled welder - can't really justify the $3500 I was quoted for MCA blues. Any insight appreciated.

Cheers,

Jamie

Edited January 2, 2019 by Post-Ironic

[C.A.R.]

I can't comment on Bilsteins (I've only ever used Koni), but you haven't stated what you are trying to achieve...?
Ride height?
Purpose? (street or track or both?)

If you are serious about using Bilsteins, I suggest you contact Heasmans Suspension in NSW - they are a Bilstein agent: http://heasmans.com.au/
Tell them your specifics and what you want to achieve with your Z, then let them guide you to the correct insert for your application.

Footnote: Never believe anything a American says.

[Post-Ironic]

10 minutes ago, Léon said:

I can't comment on Bilsteins (I've only ever used Koni), but you haven't stated what you are trying to achieve...?
Ride height?
Purpose? (street or track or both?)

If you are serious about using Bilsteins, I suggest you contact Heasmans Suspension in NSW - they are a Bilstein agent: http://heasmans.com.au/
Tell them your specifics and what you want to achieve with your Z, then let them guide you to the correct insert for your application.

Footnote: Never believe anything a American says.

Cheers for the reply Leon, I really did fail to mention what I was going for!

I'm aiming for something thing that'd be solid around a track whilst still being street-driveable without any major issues (have no problem with a firm ride); definitely looking to have the car sit considerably lower than factory height. 

I had considered Koni Yellows but the cheapest I could find were almost 2x the price of equivalent Bilsteins. Just didn't seem worth the price difference. 

I'll give Heasmans a call tomorrow.

[GregTas]

15 hours ago, Post-Ironic said:

I had considered Koni Yellows but the cheapest I could find were almost 2x the price of equivalent Bilsteins. Just didn't seem worth the price difference. 

I bought Koni Yellows from S W Motorpsort and they were $550 a pair.

I section my struts about 30 mm and put shorter MR2 inserts in the front (very tight fit in the tube, but they do fit). In the rear I put 240Z front struts.

[Bonkers]

Being  from Brisbane. I would head over to Accurate Suspension at Woodridge - Underwood and talk to Ken.

He has looked after a lot of the ZCCQ boys for more than 25 years now . He has seen  it all when it comes to Zeds.  

[Mike260LW]

18 hours ago, Bonkers said:

Being  from Brisbane. I would head over to Accurate Suspension at Woodridge - Underwood and talk to Ken.

He has looked after a lot of the ZCCQ boys for more than 25 years now . He has seen  it all when it comes to Zeds.  

Agree with Bonkers. Ken Graham at Accurate Suspension did the Bilsteins setup in my Group S Zed, although I know there are more insert options available to you if you go to  the later, larger diameter 260z strut.                      

[csp-311]

Post-ironic,

The original Bilsteins, P30-0061 (front) and P30-0062 (rear) is the route I went down. I managed to source a used pair of both (my friend source a NOS pair). I was lucky to have them re-valved in the US, where I got them with the help of a friendly Hybridz member. I can't remember which way, but one pair was re-valved, while the other set was too far gone. they could be re-built at a un-economical cost, but they found another shock that would fit and close valving. And it wasn't the VW ones. I will have to dig them out for what they are. The good thing is the Bilsteins can be re-built.

I had them re-valved by giving them the spring rate I am using, and the car weight. The key to good suspension is getting these to work in unison. Most just throw some springs/shocks expecting brilliance.

It wasn't a cheap route, but for me, better than the cutting shock towers and adding some modern stuff in. Keep it looking original.

FYI, The old Bilsteins are clour coded for front (green) and rear (yellow- I can't quite recall, or the other way round) , but I this doesn't always be true, as I have a set with the colour on the "wrong" shock. The stamped numbers are the key.

The "wrong" coloured shock could be for sale....but would need re-valved/serviced.

[Post-Ironic]

Update!

Went down to Accurate and spoke with Ken today - super helpful and exceptionally knowledgeable.

Bilstein P30's will work in standard 240Z struts, however, you end up with an smaller shock vs Koni Yellows due to the Bilstein design (inverted monotube). Overall Ken put it down to availability - Koni's will be a tighter fit as most of you guys have found out, however, you get a fair bit more shock for the effort + that element of adjustability with the Yellows. Ken highly recommended the guys down at MCA - testament to their work that I've not heard a single bad thing!

Mike was bang on with the 260 strut comment - more options and overall better shock performance due to larger size potential. However, Ken said you can get the 240 struts to work to a level very close to them (in regards to a street / occasional track car).

MCA seems to be the easiest / best option if you have the money to splash, but Ken said sectioned struts using weld-on kits will still perform quite well provided the insert is valved correctly.

Hearing what he had to say I'll likely be looking towards a Koni set-up.

A side note; the alternate Bilstein part number (P30-0137) appears to be a B6 (OEM+) as opposed to a B8 (Lowered OEM+) - probably not the best to use with sectioned struts and lowering springs.

If you can pick up either the part numbers mentioned by csp-311 or the P30-0032s they'll do quite a decent job nonetheless - just very annoying to source. There's an Ebay store based out of Miami in the US that has 7 of the 0032s available at $200~ USD each, post-tax and shipping it ends up at about $1050. Have gotten quotes for Koni Yellows at $1150-$1300 a set (locally sourced).

Have done my best to relay what I was told / have found out; if any of you see any glaring problems please give me a shout and I'll correct it. Big thanks to Ken for his time, hope this helps someone in some way.

 

[csp-311]

Good work Post Ironic,

6 hours ago, Post-Ironic said:

P30's will work in standard 240Z struts, however, you end up with an smaller shock vs Koni Yellows due to the Bilstein design

The Rabbit shocks are shorter, but the original Bilsteins, P30-0061 (front) and P30-0062 (rear) are the correct length for direct fitment to a s30/240/260z.

I presume the Koni Yellows, like the Koni reds, have either a knob on the top to adjust, or a adjustment on the bottom of the shock (which you can't adjust once in the strut). Being soft, medium and hard? How do the Koni Yellows match to a varying choice of spring rate, or are they just quite generic offering a narrow band of damping/spring rate?

[Post-Ironic]

Absolutely no clue where I found this article, but there seems to be a decent bit to read through regarding shock comparisons: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html

Figured this may interest some of you out there or at the very least generate some discussion.

On a side note I'd like to confirm that it is indeed the AW11 MR2 rear inserts that are used for the 240Z front struts r.e. Koni Yellows?

@csp-311 the Yellows do have an adjuster knob at the top of the strut; proper adjustable shock.

[Mike260LW]

We have been running the Koni yellows in our Tarmac rally 260Z since 2007 with no issues. Rebound adjustment on top and bump on the bottom. Correct you can't get to the bottom adjusters once installed but we drilled an access hole in the bottom of the rear struts and its not that difficult to undo the two bolts and drop the steering  knuckles on the front to adjust. To be honest they are a bit " set and forget" and we have settled on wet and dry settings for rally and race. We pulled them out after 10 years and had Ken Graham give them the once-over and all still good with no perceptible performance drop off. 

[Cozza]

I think there’s a couple Koni Yellow alternatives. Either the 8641--1060 SPT from the front of a 300zx or the 8641-1142 from the rear of the mr2.

For the front of a 240z, the 1060’s are a shorter shock body than the standard and will require about a 20mm spacer or shorten the strut tube. These are better for a close to standard height car. Whereas the 1142’s are shorter again and require a larger spacer or more sectioning of the struts. These are better for a lower ride height.

Koni has a website describing their shocks and the vehicle they suit.

http://www.koni.com/en-US/Cars/Products/Catalog/

if you input the part number into the article box, you will get a basic description 

hope this helps a little 

mick