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Looking For Some Advise And Thoughts


Melkor

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Hello All,

 

I have a '72 240z in pretty rough shape.  It desperatly needs to be restored.  I have had the car for over 10 years, and have kept it undercover untill very recently. 

 

But unfortunalty before i got the car it was left out in the weather and has some rust which is getting worse and worse.  I would really like to get it media blasted, body work fixed and then undecoated, so stop the rust for progressing.

 

i know this is a very open question but does anyone have any idea what that would cost?  (in Melbourne) Obviously it is dependant on how much rust needs to be cut and repaired.

 

While I desperately want to keep and build this car and hand it onto my kids (my 3 year old has already claimed it as his car) I don't want to let it get beyond the point of repair.  So I am considering selling it so someone else who can afford it fix it.  But i am worried that if I do let this car go, I will not be able to get one ever again as the prices just keep going up and up. 

 

I'm guessing I am looking at over $30K for the full restore, but considering I already have the car that means 'eventually' I will be done for $30K and at the moment a decent 240Z is what, $40K+?

 

I think what I need to weigh up is...

 

What it will cost to get the car to point of stopping the rust from getting worse?

What the car will bring in if I sell it in its current state?

How much rust is too much to repair?

How much would it cost to buy a 240Z in 5, 10,15 years time, if I am even able to find one?

 

I guess I am just putting my thoughts out there in a community that understands my love of Zeds (I've had a 260Z, and 300zx).

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

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I don't think I need pics, there is a very simple answer to this question. You need to buy one in decent condition right now. 

  1. They will continue to go up
  2. You are going to have to spend the time to fully strip the car
  3. If you pull it apart you its going to take up 3x the space (i know this because mine's pulled apart)
  4. You will loose bits while it's apart (i've been actively working on mine since it got back from the panel shop and this has happened).
  5. By the time you get around to working on it, it might have developed more rust issues. You can't fix it permanently!
  6. Your body job will probably run well over $15k
  7. It sounds like this car is going to need to need a lot of other things doing. In short you don't do any sort of decent resto for $30k

As a previous owner of both a 260Z 2+2 and a 300ZX twin turbo the 240Z is the pick and maybe the answer is to sell all 3 and have one good 240Z that you can actually enjoy now. 

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Sand blast approx $1500 

then 2pak epoxy primer straight over the blasted body will stop the rust and provided a better base for repair work. Cost depends if you have spray painting equipment.about $1000 for someone to do it,  

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There is a project section here so one idea is to find a couple there that start off similar to how yours would. Whatever needs doing to yours has been done before by someone here. It's a bit late now but rusty Zeds lying around for years could be partly protected by giving them a good going over with fishoilene or similar.

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It sounds like you would be better off selling this one and buying a fully restored one when you have the space/funds. It is pretty much always cheaper to buy a finished one than restore one yourself. They really need to be garaged too, you don't want to leave it outside or it will start rusting again.

 

Good luck.

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have kept it undercover untill very recently. 

So is the car not under cover now? If it's now outside even with a top end car cover it's going to deteriorate far more & even faster.

And even if you get the body shell repaired to a high standard now, with all the panels on, weatherstripping fitted & glass in, you can't leave it to sit outside or you'll find yourself having to re-do parts of it down the track.

I agree with Brabham's advice above.

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Went to look at a Zed a few years ago, it had been sitting out in a paddock uncovered for several years. The owner had gone overseas intending to return but never did. From a distance it looked hopeless, sunk into the ground surrounded by grass but on close examination it was almost rust free, amazing. Apparently the tradie owner had repainted it and obviously prepared it properly, much better than Mr Nissan ever did.

 

I know that the best procedure is to do a full body restoration ASAP but a good going over with fishoilene or similar will help a lot in the meantime, even if the car is left outside.

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So is the car not under cover now? If it's now outside even with a top end car cover it's going to deteriorate far more & even faster.

 

Correct, it is currently out in the open, but it is moving to a mates farm shed this weekend and will have a permanate spot in the garage once my house is built (due to be finished in the next 6-8 months) so it will be undercover again, soo.

 

one of my concerns was if i get it blasted and does need alot of repair, can i still get it undercoated first? or will that just mean having strip the paint again? but then again i guess if rust is getting cut out then a bit of paint stripping with a wire wheel before welding is not an issue.  

 

So does anyone know a good sand blaster in Melbourne, i spoke to two yesterday, one was saying $1200-$1500, the other was saying closer to $2500 but he said he does a better job cause the plastic blast first then another type of blasting that removes the removes any left over rust but the only do that on the thicker body sections...

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one of my concerns was if i get it blasted and does need alot of repair, can i still get it undercoated first? or will that just mean having strip the paint again? but then again i guess if rust is getting cut out then a bit of paint stripping with a wire wheel before welding is not an issue. 

After the blasting, you would get it coated. The blasting will remove the rust, and you will be left with holes/pitting everywhere there was rust.

 

I would get it blasted and primed, because it is only going to cost a couple thousand as you are finding out. Then you can assess it further, and if you decide to sell the car, it would probably be beneficial to future buyers to have it already stripped so they can see what they are getting themselves into (also, you should be able to raise the price a little and get your money back for the blasting).

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I would suggest you sell it now, invest the money in something safe and DON'T TOUCH IT. When your life circumstances mean you are better placed then buy again with those funds.

 

Don't be so sure prices will always continue to rise for every car. Even those that have been restored in more recent times will need considerable work in 10-15 years and their relative values will decline.

 

These projects are massive for any home based restorer. Even old retired farts (anyone called Peter on this site) spend 3 years minimum and often much much longer. For those with young families and work commitment it's just that much harder.

 

Also, don't be surprised if the 3 year old has a change of heart by their teenage years when they discover other worldly delights

Edited by PeterAllen
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How far will $30K get you?

Maybe ship it to South Africa for Classicman's friends to do the resto on it?
Then you keep your car, its in good shape for you to enjoy with your family and likely still be in good shape for your kids to inherit.
Look at the thread on his car to see their work.

Or potentially sell it and buy someone elses hidden problems.

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Or potentially sell it and buy someone elses hidden problems.

Yep, and 30K doesn't go far in terms of a restoration. I reckon $60K is about what it takes to refresh a 240z properly without too much fancy stuff like engine builds.

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1. What it will cost to get the car to point of stopping the rust from getting worse?

2. What the car will bring in if I sell it in its current state?

3. How much rust is too much to repair?

4. How much would it cost to buy a 240Z in 5, 10,15 years time, if I am even able to find one?

 

 

1. Stored properly in a clean, dry shed the rust shouldn't get drastically worse. I have a number of cars stored in various dry locations, none had developed any rust over the last 10 years or so. Only one to have had issues is one stored in my brother's damp-ish garage - it developed surface rust in a few spots were the original paint was a bit thin and water condensed on the car from the damp in the garage. I have since covered it in a cover and no more surface rust has appeared.

 

2. Hard to say

 

3. Also hard to say. ALL rust is repairable, it comes down to how much the owner is willing to either do themselves or pay someone else to do.

 

4. Also hard to say without a crystal ball. I have been looking at getting a zed for a while, prices are definitely going up drastically at the moment, but there are peaks and troughs in all classic car markets. Currently 70's Jap stuff seems to be the flavor of the month, but who knows what the trend will be over the next 10 years ? If it was possible to look a few years into the future and predict what was going to take off pricewise, I would currently have a shed full of 240K's that I bought 5 years ago for the cost of scrap......

Edited by 1600dave
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Yep, and 30K doesn't go far in terms of a restoration. I reckon $60K is about what it takes to refresh a 240z properly without too much fancy stuff like engine builds.

really?  $60k?

 

I was thinking 20-25K for body work and paint, then 5K in missing parts and wot not.  The car is supposedly complete.  But i'm not looking for concourse, just a good looking clean car when i'm done, so if have to use some aftermarket or reproduction, or even home made parts (inner door skins for example) then i'm not worried.

 

Ultimately i would love to put a RB26 twin turbo from a GTR (with a modified 2wd sump of course) in it, (keep it a kinda datsun motor...)  but that may be a project for one of my sons to take on.  I do have an L28 i bought from Costa... (cannot remember his surname) that will need a bit of work as it has also been sitting for 10, maybe even 15 years , but when i bought it he assured me it was an really good powerful motor.  It gets some engine oil on it when it looks dry and the crank gets turned every 3-6 months (when i remember) 

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really?  $60k?

 

I was thinking 20-25K for body work and paint, then 5K in missing parts and wot not.  The car is supposedly complete.  But i'm not looking for concourse, just a good looking clean car when i'm done, so if have to use some aftermarket or reproduction, or even home made parts (inner door skins for example) then i'm not worried.

 

Ultimately i would love to put a RB26 twin turbo from a GTR (with a modified 2wd sump of course) in it, (keep it a kinda datsun motor...)  but that may be a project for one of my sons to take on.

$60k to do it right and refresh things and make the car look as new again. If you're just doing a refresh you can get away with less I'm sure...

 

Once you start doing engine conversions etc.. costs add up fast.

 

I do have an L28 i bought from Costa... (cannot remember his surname) that will need a bit of work as it has also been sitting for 10, maybe even 15 years , but when i bought it he assured me it was an really good powerful motor.  It gets some engine oil on it when it looks dry and the crank gets turned every 3-6 months (when i remember)

Costa Kiskiras?

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Costa Kiskiras?

 

dunno, he used to work for Lindsay at ZShop years and years ago, that's how i met him, and have a feeling he actually put me onto this site, i brought the motor from him, just after, just before the site got launched.  He told me back then that he built it the same as the one in his car, and with a p90 head... blah blah blah, 280HP blah blah blah...  

 

I have a e88 head waiting for it, but like most of my part/projects, it need a rebuild.  Want to get it done properly hi-flowed and what not, but again, not important at the moment, stopping the rust on the 240 is my main concern...

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Yep that's Mr Kiskiras alright.

 

But point taken re: body work. I would post photos, what you think is bad might not be so bad to others. Let's see what you have and if it's worth looking for another.

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Well i'm getting some boxes from a mate tonight, then its empty the car of all the spare parts, panels, dash, disc brake conversion and other bits and pieces i have accumulated over the years.  Then i'll get all snap happy and take some photos... I know i will need a hatch panel, for instance, but i will post photos soon...

 

Has anyone had experience with the rust repair panels from Rare spares?  for example http://www.rarespares.net.au/rarespares/SearchPage.aspx?type=partsfinder&pno=0&brand=NISSAN&model=DATSUN+240Z+260Z&car=34A&productgroup=PANELS+%26+RUST+PANELS

 

They really at not as expensive as i would thought which worries me... Although i am probably getting ahead of myself again

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I've bought a couple of rare spares panels, they are reasonably priced. The steel is slightly thicker gauge than standard (which is very thin).

 

The labour component is where the money goes, you have to fettle around a bit to get a good finish with the door skins, I may need to mig weld the top of my door where the fender / door gap is (at the top front end of the door) to get the gaps 100%.

 

That stuff can be time consuming. Also they don't have some other panels like roof skins (which would be immensely helpful) rear beaver panels / lower valance area or rear hatch skins would I would have bought given how long it took me to restore my vented hatch.

 

You should read through the project section of this forum, lots of this stuff has been covered already. Likewise check out the body work section I've created a couple of threads on hatch repair and added to the door re-skin for dummies thread also.

 

I think a fair chunk of change goes into the small items people forget about like rubber trims, fasteners, hard to find interior pieces, NLA stuff like rear license plate lights. Most of the mechanical stuff is still relatively speaking cheap. It's all the bits and pieces that are NLA that add up because those are the bits everyone else needs for their restoration. So prices go up accordingly.

 

I'm trying to make my cars original again and that can get expensive when NOS AM radio's are $1,500 AUD +, D Hubcaps are $3,000 + and TOPY Steel Wheels cost $1,500 +, Ash Trays are $600 USD etc...

 

Early cars demand a Premium and so do the parts needed to restore them. Later 72+ cars are a bit cheaper to restore.

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Melkor my two cents worth.

If you need to ask how much with most restorations then you probably should not start and may not be ably to afford it. But in saying that if you do your homework look at prices and dig through this and other forums to get a better understanding you will be able to answer the question yourself. The search function is your friend.

Have a big through the build threads and get a feel for what others have encountered. If you still feel it's for you and it's financially achievable then go for it. But get ready to spend time and money.

Good luck.

Jeff.

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