Ross Dunkerton and Datsun in Australia

[lampy]

There was a comment recently on Ozdat.com about the Dunkerton 260z returning to Japan.

http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14117&start=30

[DerekMelb]

On 4/11/2015 at 8:38 AM, HS30-H said:

 

Gav,

'TKS 33 SU 4080' was a proper Works car and (originally at least...) it was an HLS30-prefixed LHD '240Z', built in mid 1973 as one of a batch of works cars that were due to take part in the 1973 RAC Rally here in the UK. In fact, '4080' got diverted to your neck of the woods and never made it to Europe.

Tony Fall (navigated by Mike Halloran) used it on the '73 Southern Cross. After a year its carnet would have run out and it should have been repatriated to Japan. If it wasn't, then the (quite large...) deposit paid on the issue of the carnet would have been forfeit and it would have cost Nissan a lot of money in Japan.

In the photo of the Dunkerton car from the '76 Warrana Rally its clear to see that his car is wearing the Japanese 'carnet' license plate of '4080'. I don't know if it was the same (works) car or if it had been re-shelled using most of the original Works parts, but whatever the story was the carnet 'plate had run out by 1976 and it should not have been valid for use in Australia by that time.... A story to be told there I think.

Whatever Dunkerton's feelings about his time working with Nissan were (good or bad, I have no idea) he did at least get to use a proper Works car, and that was more than most.   

Interesting info, Gav. Thanks for filling in some gaps for me. Tony Fall rolled this car (or one looking like it) in the 1973 Southern Cross and it was returned to Japan afterward. The car that returned in 1975, with this rego plate, had no signs of being repaired (that I can remember) so my thought is that the works switched the plates onto another car. I believe it was a Safari spec'd Z and the last unused one on the shelf (the team had switched to 710s by then).

Ross Dunkerton and John Large ran as a Nissan Australia semi-sponsored entry in the 1975 Southern Cross but had a coming together with a spectator vehicle and retired on night one with a damaged rear arm for which we had no spare at that time. I suspect the crash probably had something to do with it being Ross' first event in a LHD car but his version of events is slightly different.

Ross then ran this car with navigator Jeff Beaumont for most of the Australian Championship in 1976, which they won comprehensively – 4 consecutive wins, one 2nd, and one DNF (1st round due to unspecified and not remembered suspension failure, again). Ross also ran it in the Castrol International Rally early that year, coming 3rd to Greg Carr and George Fury.

The car was not entered in the Southern Cross in 1976 and its next event was the Alpine Rally later that year in which Dunkerton had a rollover. It was not considered worth repairing and the wreck was given to Ross to use the running gear in his own RHD 260Z. Dunkerton/Beaumont and the works powered 260Z had good success again in 1977 until he lost oll pressure in the penultimate round and the engine was destroyed. They still managed to come equal 1st in the ARC with George Fury in the works 710.

I began full-time work with the Datsun Rally Team at the beginning of 1976. We prepared and maintained this LHD 240Z for Ross and an early 710 for George Fury that year.

[DerekMelb]

On 4/11/2015 at 12:38 AM, gav240z said:

A nice looking (260z?)

and from here: http://autopics.com.au/76098-ross-dunkerton-datsun-260z-warrana-rally-1976-martin-domeracki-collection/

Appears to have the Kobe Seiko wheels, and I wonder how many other special Nissan parts of the era?

I guess I'm wondering if the car is still out there? If so has anyone seen it and does anybody know much about the parts that were fitted at the time or have more photos to share of it? I'm really interested, would be good to know if Ross is still into the Datsun's although it seems he may be presenting on TV more these days.

I hadn't remembered the name Kobe Seiko for these wheels, so thanks for that factoid. They were a 14" x 6(I think)" dark grey, magnesium wheel that were used by the works at that time as their 14" wheel of choice (before the 14" Gold painted Enkei came on the scene later in 1976) on the 610SSS, HS30 and 710SSS. We broke one on the Z at one stage so decided to see if we could set it alight. It burned very well and oh-so bright!

AutoPics have ID'd this as a 260Z but it was actually a 240Z. HKSZ (above) has also reversed his naming of the Zs Ross drove in that era. His own car he drove in 1975 and 1977 (with works 240Z engine and running gear) was a 260Z and the works car was a 240Z. None have survived to my knowledge.

[gav240z]

Derek, thanks for joining in, but that information above was from Alan @HS30-H.

[HS30-H]

39 minutes ago, DerekMelb said:

Tony Fall rolled this car (or one looking like it) in the 1973 Southern Cross and it was returned to Japan afterward. The car that returned in 1975, with this rego plate, had no signs of being repaired (that I can remember) so my thought is that the works switched the plates onto another car. I believe it was a Safari spec'd Z and the last unused one on the shelf (the team had switched to 710s by then).

 

With all due respect, I think the above is a fundamental misapprehension of what the Japanese temporary-export 'Carnet' license plates represented.

The cars were exported for temporary use, so the import duty in the country of use (in this case, Australia) was suspended. The complete 'Carnet' was a complicated and thorough list of the chattels involved in running one or more of these cars outside Japan, usually several pages long and listing parts by piece-by-piece. As long as the car - and theoretically every single piece listed in the full carnet - left the country in question within the time limit of the carnet (usually one year from date of entry) then there was no penalty to pay.

There was no reason or advantage for the Nissan works team to swap one carnet license plate between two cars when they were going in and out of foreign countries. None. Why would you switch a time-limited plate and supporting paperwork (which listed the chassis number, and that chassis number was often 'tagged' with a unique identifier by the customs authority which stamped the carnet, in order to avoid fraudulent use) from one car to another? Once a car had gone back to Japan - usually shagged or at the very least creaking at the seams - there was simply NO reason to use that same number plate again. It simply wouldn't make any logical sense. They could start again with a fresh car and a fresh carnet plate issued by their local licensing authority (Shinagawa, in this case) giving them a clear year of use.

Plate swapping - along with chassis plates and supporting paperwork - were switched by works teams (especially Ford UK and BMC, who did it with gay abandon) in that period, but I have seen no evidence that Nissan's works rally team did it with their HS30, HLS30, RS30 and RLS30 240Z & 260z rally cars. Some of the plates themselves (just the plate) got 'retained' as souvenirs, or when cars DID stay on past their carnet and - all duties paid - they had to be put onto a local registration. These plates sometimes turned up attached to a car, but it was not the Nissan works team who were doing it. They had no reason to.       

[PeterAllen]

Flicking through a few old magazines today and came across this artwork of Gregg Carr's 180B.

https://postimg.cc/6TkkCh4Z

[DatsunPA11]

2 hours ago, HS30-H said:

With all due respect, I think the above is a fundamental misapprehension of what the Japanese temporary-export 'Carnet' license plates represented.

The cars were exported for temporary use, so the import duty in the country of use (in this case, Australia) was suspended. The complete 'Carnet' was a complicated and thorough list of the chattels involved in running one or more of these cars outside Japan, usually several pages long and listing parts by piece-by-piece. As long as the car - and theoretically every single piece listed in the full carnet - left the country in question within the time limit of the carnet (usually one year from date of entry) then there was no penalty to pay.

There was no reason or advantage for the Nissan works team to swap one carnet license plate between two cars when they were going in and out of foreign countries. None. Why would you switch a time-limited plate and supporting paperwork (which listed the chassis number, and that chassis number was often 'tagged' with a unique identifier by the customs authority which stamped the carnet, in order to avoid fraudulent use) from one car to another? Once a car had gone back to Japan - usually shagged or at the very least creaking at the seams - there was simply NO reason to use that same number plate again. It simply wouldn't make any logical sense. They could start again with a fresh car and a fresh carnet plate issued by their local licensing authority (Shinagawa, in this case) giving them a clear year of use. 

Plate swapping - along with chassis plates and supporting paperwork - were switched by works teams (especially Ford UK and BMC, who did it with gay abandon) in that period, but I have seen no evidence that Nissan's works rally team did it with their HS30, HLS30, RS30 and RLS30 240Z & 260z rally cars. Some of the plates themselves (just the plate) got 'retained' as souvenirs, or when cars DID stay on past their carnet and - all duties paid - they had to be put onto a local registration. These plates sometimes turned up attached to a car, but it was not the Nissan works team who were doing it. They had no reason to.       

I've been reading this thread and enjoying it very much, but thought I would 'chip-in' with my two-bob's worth.

Have to say first-up, the info I'm providing here relates to the later PA10 works cars (160J / Stanza etc) and I fully appreciate Alan's info only relates to the "HS30, HLS30, RS30 and RLS30 240Z & 260z rally cars". For many years now I have studied the works PA10s (and learnt an awful lot from Derek who posted earlier) and collected all the info I can, including a clear example of Nissan in Japan re-using a 'Carnet' export plate.

The first pic is the RHD Group 2 SOHC PA10 (Stanza) provided for Ross Dunkerton / Adrian Mortimer in the 1978 Southern Cross Rally. The Japanese plate on this car is TKS57 TE 8013.

Second pic is taken from the Nissan / Datsun Race and Rally Digest No. 4, showing Timo Salonen / Seppo Harjanne celebrating second place outright at the 1980 Acropolis Rally, which they claimed in their LHD Group 2 SOHC Datsun 160J, with Japanese plate TKS57 TE 8013.

The Dunkerton 1978 Southern Cross car stayed in Australia, forming the basis for his 1979 Australian Rally Championship contender until it was rolled in the 1979 Bega Valley Rally. This was likely within its 12-months carnet period, but beyond that event, its fate is unknown. I doubt Nissan in Japan would have repaired the crunched Dunkerton car then converted it to left hand drive so that it would be re-united with its original plate and shipped off to Greece.

As stated clearly above, this is well beyond the Zed period but I did want to show some evidence that plate-swapping by the Japanese works team did take place.

Jeff

Edited June 26, 2019 by DatsunPA11
Turning on notification of replies

[HS30-H]

25 minutes ago, DatsunPA11 said:

Have to say first-up, the info I'm providing here relates to the later PA10 works cars (160J / Stanza etc) and I fully appreciate Alan's info only relates to the "HS30, HLS30, RS30 and RLS30 240Z & 260z rally cars". For many years now I have studied the works PA10s (and learnt an awful lot from Derek who posted earlier) and collected all the info I can, including a clear example of Nissan in Japan re-using a 'Carnet' export plate.

 

As stated clearly above, this is well beyond the Zed period but I did want to show some evidence that plate-swapping by the Japanese works team did take place.

 

Jeff,

Your post is a very good example of why I try to be scrupulous in restricting my assertions to relate ONLY to the Works 240Z & 260Z rally cars. I've been studying them for many years and I think I have a pretty good handle on them by now. I know a few examples of what we might call 'skullduggery' in period, but any number-swapping wasn't actually Nissan's direct doing. 

All bets are off for me when it comes to the PA10s and later stuff. My impression - looking in from the outside - is that it all starts to get a bit more laissez faire when the locally-built cars started coming into the mix and Nissan were providing parts and comprehensive data on how to build G2 and G4 cars. There were also far more Works cars going into the mix (by contrast, the Works 240Zs and 260Zs were far, far fewer in number and spread out evenly over a good five years). So I don't bring what I call 'later' activities into the mix when I'm researching the Zs. As far as I'm concerned, post '76, Here Be Dragons.

When the likes of Ford and BMC were swapping identities on cars it was usually done for reasons of convenience. 'Log Book', identity papers, insurance, road tax, MOT test certificate and any scrutineering history etc could be switched from one car to another along with the license plate and chassis plate, with obvious logistical advantages. In the case of the Works 240Zs and (few) 260Zs, this was much harder to do. First of all, outside Japan there simply wasn't an available 'stock' of 240Z & 260Z rally cars to switch identities between, and in the case of two Works cars, each would have its own identity (engraved in the firewall sheetmetal for a start...) with which it crossed borders, so there were no Works-spec cars being built-up outside Japan from fresh 'shells. It's also easy to tell the difference between a proper Works car and a privateer-built example.

But the bigger question is motive. Why would they do it? Obviously when a car was crashed or otherwise put out of action it could theoretically be useful to pin its identity on another car but, in the case of the Works 240Zs and 260Zs, the car you were pinning that identity on would already have had its own identity and carnet. Why not use that? The exception was when cars were sent out of country, and ostensibly back to Japan, with the identities of Works cars attached to them (in order to satisfy the Carnet), but that takes particular Works car identities OUT of the mix rather than keeping them in it. It also caused all sorts of trouble back in Japan. Heads rolled.

These things are for me - generally speaking - only clues in what is in fact the much bigger task of following the careers of genuine Works cars, and what happened to them afterwards.

 

[PeterAllen]

Read back a few more issues and found this one of Dunkerton. 

https://postimg.cc/fSXrXg92

[gilltech]

Quote

the much bigger task of following the careers of genuine Works cars, and what happened to them afterwards.

And for me that is the interesting part. And surely a worthy topic in itself.

So what did happen to them all, however many there were, over the 5 years mentioned?

Which few managed to survive? Isn't there a Nissan museum in Japan?

[DatsunPA11]

22 hours ago, HS30-H said:

These things are for me - generally speaking - only clues in what is in fact the much bigger task of following the careers of genuine Works cars, and what happened to them afterwards.

 

This is a truly noble (and challenging) cause, there's plenty of misinformation out there. It's what you might call, 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

It needs to be done though, there's plenty of researched information available on European works cars, it wouldn't take much to fill a bookshelf with titles on Ford Escorts or Lancia Stratos for example. To my mind, Japanese cars (apart from GT-Rs) are under represented in the English speaking world.

Jeff

[DerekMelb]

On 6/26/2019 at 6:08 PM, HS30-H said:

With all due respect, I think the above is a fundamental misapprehension of what the Japanese temporary-export 'Carnet' license plates represented.

The cars were exported for temporary use, so the import duty in the country of use (in this case, Australia) was suspended. The complete 'Carnet' was a complicated and thorough list of the chattels involved in running one or more of these cars outside Japan, usually several pages long and listing parts by piece-by-piece. As long as the car - and theoretically every single piece listed in the full carnet - left the country in question within the time limit of the carnet (usually one year from date of entry) then there was no penalty to pay.

There was no reason or advantage for the Nissan works team to swap one carnet license plate between two cars when they were going in and out of foreign countries. None. Why would you switch a time-limited plate and supporting paperwork (which listed the chassis number, and that chassis number was often 'tagged' with a unique identifier by the customs authority which stamped the carnet, in order to avoid fraudulent use) from one car to another? Once a car had gone back to Japan - usually shagged or at the very least creaking at the seams - there was simply NO reason to use that same number plate again. It simply wouldn't make any logical sense. They could start again with a fresh car and a fresh carnet plate issued by their local licensing authority (Shinagawa, in this case) giving them a clear year of use.

Plate swapping - along with chassis plates and supporting paperwork - were switched by works teams (especially Ford UK and BMC, who did it with gay abandon) in that period, but I have seen no evidence that Nissan's works rally team did it with their HS30, HLS30, RS30 and RLS30 240Z & 260z rally cars. Some of the plates themselves (just the plate) got 'retained' as souvenirs, or when cars DID stay on past their carnet and - all duties paid - they had to be put onto a local registration. These plates sometimes turned up attached to a car, but it was not the Nissan works team who were doing it. They had no reason to.       

For the 1972 Southern Cross Rally, Nissan entered a red, RHD, Safari spec, 240Z carrying rego TKS33 SA 8075 for Rauno Aaltonen. He placed 2^nd. Following the Cross I have photos of this car running in the 1972 Dulux Rally (Hermann/Bonhomme car 3) then the 1973 Experts Trial (Kilfoyle/Osbourne) and the 1973 Alpine Rally (Evans/Mitchell car 9). I’m pretty sure Bill crashed it in the Alpine and it was not seen in an event after that. It was either crushed or left the country.

For the 1973 Southern Cross Nissan entered 3 new, red, Safari spec 240Zs, a LHD for Fall/Halloran, car #1, rego TKS33 SU 4080 (rolled and DNF’d), a RHD car #2 for Mehta/Bonghomme rego TKS33 SU 3444 (rolled in the first division shortly after Fall and DNF’d), and a LHD car #17 for Watson/Beaumont (placed 8^th). I was not yet employed by Nissan but was there spectating and stalking the Datsun service crews. I happened to witness Shekha and Tony Fall chuckling together, at the service point after Shekha retired, over their personal tallies of rolled Zs that year. 

Those 3 cars were not seen in Australia again after the Cross that year and were either returned to Japan or crushed (I have no direct knowledge of cars being pushed off ships at sea so cannot rule it out. Contrary to some comments here the Carnet requirement was that the vehicle left Australian shores or Nissan Australia was required to pay it’s import duty. I saw several of the carnet documents for our Datsun Rally Team cars and I can tell you there was no listing of specific parts/components included.

In the 1974 Southern Cross Nissan entered 2 710s, Kallstrom/Bonhomme #2, Kilfoyle/Richards #3 and a 610SSS for Fury/Suffern #18. I have no record or photo of a works Z in an event in 1974 (other than Stewart McLeod’s Datsun Distribution S.A. supported 260Z)

For the 1975 Southern Cross, Nissan entered 3 710s, car#2 was Aaltinen/Souminen, car #3 was Kallstrom/Bonhomme and car #7 was Fury/Suffern. The team was run out of Bruce Wilkinson Motors for the last time and I was an unpaid, expenses covered volunteer preparing and servicing.

Vice President of Nissan Motor Co. Australia, Mr Sasamoto, was a big rally fan (it was he who gave me the job as first team mechanic in the official team at the beginning of 1976 because he’d seen me on events with the team and knew I was already on the company payroll). He was also a big fan of 240Zs and of Ross Dunkerton who had been having terrific success in his privately run 260Z. 

Mr Sasamoto was disappointed that Ross didn’t have company support for the ’75 Cross. He made enquiries in Japan to see if there was a car available and discovered there was one remaining unused 240Z, in Safari spec, on the shelf – a LHD car. Zs had been superceded as the works rally car by the 710SSS at this time. Mr Sasamoto offered to bring this 240Z to Australia for Dunks - and how could anyone refuse?

I believe it was imported normally and the duty paid by Nissan Australia. It arrived in pristine condition with the rego plates TKS33 SU 4080 (N.B. same as Fall's '73 Cross car. See also Jeff Cameron's recent post regarding the reuse of rego plates by the works.)

The car was prepared for the Cross at Ross’ expense but sadly he had a crash with a spectator’s car on the first night and withdrew for lack of a replacement for the damaged rear suspension arm.

During 1976 Bill Evans (and later, Barry Nelson) and myself prepared and serviced this car (as well as a 710SSS for Fury), for the Australian Rally Championship. As stated in a previous post, Dunks comprehensively won the ARC in that car in ’76, although it must be said that there were a few well performing vehicles running, including our 710SSS, which were ineligible under the rules of the time.

Despite his success, Ross was controversially dismissed from the team after the last ARC round and was not included in the line up for the Cross in 1976. He entered his own 260Z but DNF’d, coincidentally with another rear suspension failure.

The last event for this car was the 1976 Alpine Rally (late November) where Ross managed to badly damage it in a roll-over. It was given to him as a parting gift, shipped to Perth, and cannibalised to upgrade his 260Z which went on to place equal first with Fury and the 710SSS in the 1977 ARC.

I’m unaware of the exact final fate of the works body shell but, according to Ross, it was too far gone to repair at the time and was scrapped. There was no attempt to send it out of the country to recover import duty which supports my contention that it was not on a carnet.

I have many documents and photos to support most of the above.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, DatsunPA11 said:

This is a truly noble (and challenging) cause, there's plenty of misinformation out there. It's what you might call, 'sorting the wheat from the chaff'.

 

It's frustrating though, as so much half-truth and misapprehension gets repeated and - eventually - gets deposited like sedimentary rock. Set in stone.

I don't know about "noble". More like Sisyphus trying to roll shit uphill for eternity. 

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, DerekMelb said:

For the 1973 Southern Cross Nissan entered 3 new, red, Safari spec 240Zs, a LHD for Fall/Halloran, car #1, rego TKS33 SU 4080 (rolled and DNF’d), a RHD car #2 for Mehta/Bonghomme rego TKS33 SU 3444 (rolled in the first division shortly after Fall and DNF’d), and a LHD car #17 for Watson/Beaumont (placed 8^th). I was not yet employed by Nissan but was there spectating and stalking the Datsun service crews. I happened to witness Shekha and Tony Fall chuckling together, at the service point after Shekha retired, over their personal tallies of rolled Zs that year. 

Those 3 cars were not seen in Australia again after the Cross that year and were either returned to Japan or crushed

Again, with all due respect:

After the '73 Southern Cross, 'TKS 33 SU 3444' was subsequently shipped from Australia to the UK - still on the same plate - and Tony Fall/Mike Wood used it on the 1973 RAC Rally in November.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, DerekMelb said:

Contrary to some comments here the Carnet requirement was that the vehicle left Australian shores or Nissan Australia was required to pay it’s import duty. I saw several of the carnet documents for our Datsun Rally Team cars and I can tell you there was no listing of specific parts/components included.

TWO aspects to the 'Carnet' situation: One in Japan - the issuing of the Japanese temporary-export 'carnet' [that's a nickname] license plate - essentially a 'translation' plate and supporting documents - and one in whatever country the car and its chattels was temporarily imported to. So two different - but linked - situations, both needing to be satisfied.

So, in the case of 'TKS 33 SU 3444' as mentioned in the previous post, the car was built in Japan and then registered in Tokyo's Shinagawa licensing district ('TKS' in the plate is the 'translation' of Tokyo Shinagawa, the borough where Nissan's head office was). It was registered with a temporary-export license plate and supporting documents. The car would have used that plate and documents to leave Japan (NB: Export Tariffs may apply) and enter Australia. Before entering Australia it would need a set of Carnet documents to be filled in, inspected and stamped by Australian customs in order to suspend import duties and taxes. When the car - and anything else on the same Carnet - left Australia it would have been inspected again by Australian customs (they sometimes marked them on entry to ensure it was the same car leaving) and the Carnet was nullified.

If the terms of the Carnet were not satisfied in Australia then the person/company named in the Carnet would have to pay customs duties and also - in some cases - a hefty fine. And if the car did not go back to Japan before the end of its temporary-export registration then it would lose its status and be classed as an Import (a lot of fuss and trouble for Nissan). TWO 'Carnet' situations.

'TKS 33 SU 3444' was shipped from Australia to UK (via Belgium, actually) and a new temporary import 'Carnet' situation started. However, the car was still on the same Japanese temporary export license plates and supporting documentation. European import Carnet started from a zero countdown, but the Japanese export Carnet was still running on the same clock as when it left Japan. TWO Carnet situations again. 

What part of that is "contrary" to what you state above?

I have copies of the full temporary import Carnet papers for the Works 240Zs entered in the RAC Rally, and - as I have said - it included a comprehensive inventory of spares and support equipment. I can't comment on the situation for - later - 'Datsun Rally Team' Australia and/or cars other than Works 240Zs and 260Zs, and I try to make that as clear as possible whenever I talk about them. I do know that there was an unbelievable amount of faff and trouble surrounding the different Carnet situations for the Works 240Z rally cars which was - presumably - learned from and the logistics refined thereon. So I'm talking pretty much 1974 and before. 'Your Mileage May Vary', as they say...    

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, DerekMelb said:

Mr Sasamoto was disappointed that Ross didn’t have company support for the ’75 Cross. He made enquiries in Japan to see if there was a car available and discovered there was one remaining unused 240Z, in Safari spec, on the shelf – a LHD car. Zs had been superceded as the works rally car by the 710SSS at this time. Mr Sasamoto offered to bring this 240Z to Australia for Dunks - and how could anyone refuse?

I believe it was imported normally and the duty paid by Nissan Australia. It arrived in pristine condition with the rego plates TKS33 SU 4080 (N.B. same as Fall's '73 Cross car. See also Jeff Cameron's recent post regarding the reuse of rego plates by the works.)

 

The original 'TKS 33 SU 4080' (I know the original chassis and engine numbers, but I'm not posting them here) was part of a small batch of cars originally built to take part in the 1973 RAC Rally. However, it was 'diverted' to take part in the '73 Southern Cross. It was originally built with an ECGI-injected LY24 engine, so quite a complicated beast. It was not 'Safari spec'.

Whatever car Sasamoto arranged to be sent from Japan for Dunkerton in 1975, it doesn't make any sense for it to have been registered in Japan on a 'Carnet' plate identical to the one used by Fall on the '73 Southern Cross. How would that even be possible? Why would it even be necessary? The Japanese temporary-export plates and docs lasted just one calendar year - with an extra-cost extension if force majeure came into play - but were firmly linked to a unique chassis number by the Japanese vehicle licensing authority and were strictly NOT transferable.

I'd put any money you like on that '4080' plate being kept in Australia as a souvenir/trophy from its original '73 Southern Cross use (as indeed so many were elsewhere...) and then pinned on another car for convenience and/or rule compliance. Same thing happened at Le Mans in '75 with '6466': A car wearing a plate and supporting documents from another car, just to smooth its passage across borders and into another event. Fraud, basically.   

As you say, it's quite reasonable to imagine that the '75 Dunkerton car came into Australia as a permanent import (having left Japan as a permanent export) but clearly nothing to do with the original '4080' (as we've always thought) and - I say - acquiring the '4080' plate in Australia. I'd want to see any supporting evidence that Nissan Japan (or, possibly more likely, Nissan Australia) did this.

So I'm all ears. I still say that Nissan had no reason to do it on the Japanese side, and I have never seen any evidence that they themselves did it on any Works rally 240Z in period.

[260DET]

Isn't it possible that the 4080 carnet plates were on the car when it was sent from Japan but the plates were not 'activated' ie no carnet paperwork?

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, 260DET said:

Isn't it possible that the 4080 carnet plates were on the car when it was sent from Japan but the plates were not 'activated' ie no carnet paperwork?

I'm not sure I understand the point of the question. Why would a 'new' car be sent from Japan with the (expired!) 4080 carnet plates from the original 4080 on it?

Not only that, but why would this 'new' car be using the 4080 plate in Australia, when it could have been given an Australian registration and license plates as a permanent - non-carnet - import?

I think the answers follow via Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is that sticking the plate and paperwork from a previous car on the 'new' car solved a set of problems like legalisation/Rego, logbook and event eligibility, just like it did for other situations where plates were swapped from one car to another. And I reckon its far more likely that the '4080' plates/identity - however ephemeral - stayed in Australia, were used in Australia and that Dunkerton and/or the people around him had something to do with it. It makes no logical sense for Nissan Japan to have done it. 

Like I say, these Japanese license plates are useful up to a point - but they were only pieces of bureaucracy pinned on a chassis. What I have always tried to follow, and its a far harder task, are actual chassis numbers and (this being the BIG one) Nissan's internal processing code number for each individual works competition car, known as the 'Kanri Bango' (roughly: 'Maintenance Number'). That's what makes up the Rosetta Stone for these cars.   

[DatsunPA11]

Hi Alan,

Could the "Kanri Bango' number be a Dymo label stuck on the firewall?

Jeff

[260DET]

6 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I'm not sure I understand the point of the question. Why would a 'new' car be sent from Japan with the (expired!) 4080 carnet plates from the original 4080 on it?

Not only that, but why would this 'new' car be using the 4080 plate in Australia, when it could have been given an Australian registration and license plates as a permanent - non-carnet - import?

I......................................   

Perhaps you are seeking a logical answer when there is none. Perhaps the 4080 plates were on the car in Japan and no one bothered to take them off or they forgot.

[HS30-H]

4 hours ago, DatsunPA11 said:

Hi Alan,

Could the "Kanri Bango' number be a Dymo label stuck on the firewall?

Jeff

Jeff,

There were Dymo labels all over the cars. The Kanri Bango was - primarily - a paperwork thing, but Nissan marked the cars in several different ways. I've seen the KB on keyrings, Dymo labels, engraved two-colour plastic plaques, hand-drawn/painted on parts and - classically - on a reflective transfer applied to the rear valance on the car:

 

[HS30-H]

53 minutes ago, 260DET said:

Perhaps you are seeking a logical answer when there is none. Perhaps the 4080 plates were on the car in Japan and no one bothered to take them off or they forgot.

I don't see you bringing any great insight to the table here. You're just playing the man, not the ball.  

[C.A.R.]

I personally can't wait to read the book "Nissan's Early Z Rally Cars" by Alan T.

[DatsunPA11]

3 hours ago, C.A.F. said:

I personally can't wait to read the book "Nissan's Early Z Rally Cars" by Alan T.

It would be a long, time-consuming job, but I'm sure Datsun fans (not just Zed fans) around the world would be enthusiastic readers

We are starved for books like this currently.

[HS30-H]

6 hours ago, C.A.F. said:

I personally can't wait to read the book "Nissan's Early Z Rally Cars" by Alan T.

Well, don't hold your breath is all I can say.

I've been collaborating with Motor Magazine in Japan for a very small section in an upcoming Z 50th anniversary 'Mook' (half magazine, half book) and the section covers the works 240Z rally cars, with some pretty rare - mostly I think never seen before - behind-the-scenes type period photos from my collection. I have no real editorial control, but it's in good hands and their production values are very high so it will at the very least look good. 

I'll give you the heads-up when it comes out.