240 vs 260 vs 280

[hip240]

Hi

 

I am new to the forum.

 

In terms of driving what is the main difference between the three models?

 

Which is more fun to drive?

 

Which one is more practical?

 

Cheers

[Patch]

This sought of discussion may not always come out well, as it starts "mine is better than yours" I will only discuss standard cars.

 

But the main difference between the models is weight and stoke of the motor.

 

The 240 is the lightest of them all and has a shorter stoke motor and has no emission control resulting in a really fun car to drive as the motor likes to rev and responds quickly, it has a lot of history and will be the more collectible car.

 

The 260z became heavier and after 74 emission controls came in, they changed the stoke to a longer stoke and made the car more suitable to a family sports car instead of a racer like the 240.

they added a 2+2 with seats in the back for people with no legs and heavy on the steering, the 2 seater is the more collectible of the 260

 

The 280 kept the same stoke as 260 with bigger bore and lot heavier car they made a fairlane with a sports body, power everthing as as standard car you can not compare performance as they had none.

It took them 20 years to get back to the same performance as the first 240z.

 

A lot more on this web site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_S30

 

As for practical I beleive my 2002 Renalt Senic, fits that, the back seats remove in 30 sec and you have a mini van and I can sleep in the back with a mattress or carry large items or back to a 5 seater in 1 min.

 

[chris240]

At midnight you ask the meaning of life questions 

1. 40 & 60 have similar characteristics

2. Fun is different for each person.

3. Dual-cab ute

[Lynton]

Hi Hip240,

I guess a lot is dependant on what you ultimately are going to use the car for?

 

My own opinion is the 280zx is the most user friendly car of the three and is the latest model of the three, it is also larger inside thus more elbow room, has power steering a big added bonus, power windows and power mirrors, fuel injection which makes ease of starting and cold drive aways a breeze, disc brakes on all four wheels and airconditioning but the car lacks clean cut lines in its design but is appealing none the less especially as they age now.

 

The 240Z and the 260Z are are differerentiated by later years respectively and the most notable change is pollution equipment and flat top twin side draught Hitachi carburettors on the 260z's, the 260Z 2+2 has a back seat the car is a foot longer and this model is usually in a debateable better condition because it is more of a limo than an outright sports car, they are user friendly having a back seat and slightly more turns lock to lock on the steering than the standard coupe, some of the 2+2's have air-conditioning.

 

Whatever Zed you purchase rust is the most serious issue that needs to be addressed before purchase but all of them are a delight to drive!!

 

Lynton

[dat2kman]

Unless Hip240 is asking about the three models in the S30 body, ie the injected 280 as sold in USA.

From 75 on the 280 had the injection engine, again for emissions, as well it had 90 kgs of federal law crash bumpers, it became a slug, but still had the same HP as the earlier cars.

 

Then in 79 the landbarge was introduced, S130. That delightfull plush red velour interior, pulled the women in!

 

I find it fascinating that most owners here in Aus, into modding, the first thing they do is convert their S30 into a 280 with the engine coming out of a S130, so after all, they mustn't have been that bad!

[bullzed]

The consensus is that 2+2 Z's are less desireable and sell for less, but I say, more seats more women 

 

And stop calling the ZX a landbarge, it's not fat, IT'S BIG BONED  :'(

[luvemfast]

Also check out XenonS30 and XenonS130, I think that's. What they're called.

Don't forget, ZX's have a better weight distribution, less coefficient of drag, better rigidity and creature comforts.

Just strip out the excess weight. I'd be close to 100kgs lighter in mine. 

Oh, no fume issues either 

 

But in saying that. Of course the 240Z is the "hero" car

[Patch]

Just for the record, although the 260z 2+2 back seat was designed for midgets with no legs you can fit in uncomfortably 5 adults and luggage 100ks to airport, not happy when they got out, and I pointed to the stretch limo and said if you all had of put $20.00 each in you could have come up in that.Things you do for family.

[bullzed]

Also Simon, I was wondering, have you ever driven a 2+2 ZX? Is there much of a difference in the way they feel on the road to the 2 seater? I was interested in finding a 2 seater ZX sometime soon!

[dat2kman]

Interstingly, the 260 2+2 given similar mechanical performance enhancements, and a bit of emphasis on weight reductio, IS a better handling car on the track!

 

AND in mid 1970's as a five seater touring car, was raced, sorry no, practiced and qualified at the Bathurst 1000 at Mt Panorame.

The ONLY Z to do so.

The S130's were run there in prod sports and gt as standard showroom, but not the big race, the 1000!

[saxon]

240 and 260 coupe are very similar, I don't think there's a difference in value unless it's a very early 240. Some 260 specific parts can be slightly harder to find.

[53-681]

I've just restored a 260Z 2+2 and it look ZOMGAWESOME and drives like the best car in the WORLD! (to me anyway) - but at the end of the day, My heart will never be content with it... Need the original 2-seater!

 

2-seater = No regrets

 

 

All the people here saying that 280ZX or 2+2 are better, etc etc. Deep down, its not true. 2-seater S30, whether its 240, 260 or US-only 280 will always be the car of choice; looks and performance

 

 

[luvemfast]

No, I'm yet to drive an S130 2+2.

Dad has one that should be finished and quick soon.

 

Don't forget that 280ZX's can run L28 turbo's and be in a stock class.

I had a chance to switch to a 240Z, but couldn't part with my 2 seater. So I've already made my choice.

[jamo240]

Well hip, where to start.....

 

The 240 could be considered the Cornetto car....the original and best....but more original than best.

 

All the successors benefitted from the experience gained and are therefore more refined.....BUT, Nissan also lost its way a bit in trying to build a car to suit US tastes, which meant it got bigger and slower and lost its roots as a sports car.

 

Z's went into the wilderness like American muscle cars (some of which had 600HP in 1965, but struggled to make half that by 1975) pretty much all the way through the mid 70's until the 90's. With the last generation 300zx's they built a good car again. I was an apprentice mechanic at Nissan during the late 80's and drove the California spec mid life 300ZX's, and they were truly forgettable. The VG Quad valve TT engines breathed life into the marque once again! They've got better since then.

 

So...no Z is practical, although the current generation are closer to it....buy a 370Z if you want the most refined and practical car. For a really practical car get something like a diesel Ford Territory.

 

If you are nostalgic and want to go back to where it all began, get a 240 and prepare to spend money endlessly to get it right and keep it right, noting that with all the money you spend, it will still feel like a car engineered in the late 60's and built in the early 70's. That's just how it is.

 

The other ones have their pro's and con's, but you get the idea of the trade-offs you need to consider. I have a 240, and was lucky enough to get it 25 years ago when you could get them in pretty good nick for reasonable prices. If I were starting now, and wanted the early shape, I would try to get a 280Z (same body shape as 240, but not offered as original equipment in Australia), or a 280zx 2 seater  like what Simon has...they are a nice car, and a bit younger than a 240 or 260, so you get a better base car....hard to find though...Japanese import jobs.

 

Oh, the other thing is how much money you have to throw at it...don't take on a resto if you haven't got the money to finish it...otherwise, you burn up what money you have got and don't get any result for it...do the car you can afford.

 

Cheers

 

Jamo

 

 

[bullzed]

 

All the people here saying that 280ZX or 2+2 are better, etc etc. Deep down, its not true.

 

 

Ouuuchhhhhh...

[Quandary]

Not much more to add. It's all been said.

 

I looked at my 260z 2+2 yesterday and regardless of the different roof line it's still sex on wheels. While the 2 seat version is most desirable I don't believe at all that it across the board a better performer. The 2+2 feels more physical to handle but the body is more rigid. You can do a lot with it.

 

As a cruiser the 280zx was great. Particularly if you have a fiancee that wants reliable AC, power windows, power steering etc, and anything less is a poor man's car.

[hip240]

Hi

 

Good infor.

 

Is a good one always going to give you problems?

 

It seems that the 240 was the classic.

 

The 260 was practical.

 

Then the essence of a fun sports car was lost due to size!

 

How does the new 370 compare against the 240/260?

 

Is the Madza MX5 equally has fun?

 

Cheers

[PZG302]

Aside from the hairdresser jokes, an MX5 makes  a great daily sportscar. They are a great hndling car, reliable and cheap. If you  can't find a good 1.6 na for less than 6k then you aren't trying

 

Having  owned a couple of 2 seater Zeds and an Mx, if you want worry free motoring without anymore than changing oil and plugs, the MX is the way to go.

[saxon]

But you dont get random people give you the thumbs up as you drive around in an mx5.

[Agno]

Or have them say "Aw jeez you don't see many of these anymore!" every single time you get out of the car.

[d3c0y]

I dont think that you can brush asside the hairdressers jokes that easily either.

People will think you are driving your girlfriend's car. 

 

And lets not forget 6 cyl > 4 cyl - you cant constantly turn a corner...

[be-zed]

I don't think anyone here will be able to give you a definitive answer, on which is the best. We all have our reasons why one is better than the other. However at Z nationals in the standard classes the 280ZX does well for itself. As a practical car the 2+2`s do stand out .But ask any Z owner to get into the back one. Well that's when the biting, scratching , clawing  and screaming will start. From a practical point of view they have the best performance dollar value of any sports car. A good example was in 2010 at a QLD club day at Lakeside .There was a Ferrari 360 in a group of Hyundai ‘s. They could catch him on the corners but not get pass him . He was not happy about being monstered by them and asked to be moved into the group of Z’s. The track owner's said" No". They are here as a club group and cannot be broken up . Besides they will eat you alive and use your bones to pick their teeth. After that he packed his bags and went home and that is what owning a Z all is about.     

[260DET]

If Nissan AU had sold the two seater 280Zx then we could do a proper comparison with the two seater S30's. As it is, from my own and others observations and experience a stock 280ZX will handle better than a stock 240Z. The 240Z feels fast because it is light and noisy but on a racetrack my money would be on the ZX, particularly in corners and drive out of same. A stock 240Z is skittish at the back end compared with the ZX.  Comparitively a ZX is not much heavier at all even with more equipment, the extra weight is mainly in the chassis which is a good thing.

 

As someone said, the S30 is a hero car, I would say it's a fashionable hero car while the more capable 280ZX is a victim of the unfashionable 80's. But this can be adressed.

 

[positivetennis]

A very interesting topic. It is very healthy to have debates on topics like this. It would be good to be able to summarise the key points and then placed in "Commonly asked questions", as many enthusiasts would be interested in such topics. Looking at the debate I felt that there are 4 factors that can influence opinion and maybe clarify some points. They are:

 

1. What we know about the various zed models based on motoring journalist reviews, road tests, profiles and books written over the years.

 

2. How we view cars based on time. Do we look zed cars based on a 2012 perspective or do we place value on cars based on what they were like when they were released. Also how varied is each example of the same model. What condition is your car and has the car been improved or modified.

 

3. The age, ethnicity and culture of an individual- An 18year old may relate more positively to a supra or z 32 whereas a 50 year old may like 240z's, E-types, MGB's etc (Just and example).

 

4. Certain parameters such as purchasing costs, value for money, fitness for purpose, comfort and safety, maintenance cost, size and height of the driver, personal driving preferences, and what one might be familiar with. For example at what price would you stop buying a Datsun 240z. The other day I saw a Ford Excort on Ebay asking 85k and there were many hits. For that price you could get a second hand Ferrari.

 

What needs to be done is to make conclusions based on these factors. For example in 1989 the zed 32 was considered as one of the best coupes released on the Australian market whereas if we move forward to 2012, many people may see the z32 as a difficult car to repair and/or find in excellent condition, with average performance in AU spec for a car in todays values. A blandToyota Aurion has 200kw, even a Mitsubishi 380 had 175 KW. I can remember in 1979 some journalists were saying that the 280zx was overweight (maybe true) yet today its not that heavy compared to a 350z. Also not everything that the motoring press says turns out to be true after all I think I remember Wheels giving the JB Holden Camira, Magna TM, Leyland P76 Car of the Year Awards which didn't quite work out that way later on. Then on a personal view, I'm not too keen on a 350z or 370z,  because I am 2m tall and cannot fit comfortably, whereas a any car z32 and older fits beautifully and that makes me happy to have one from that perspective. I love the shape and feel of the 1st generation zed cars, and the mystic and history of this car, but will passengers appreciate the fumes and how will I fare in an accident compared to a 370z. Can I find one without rust in the dog leg of the car. I will try to collate and come up with some succint points.

 

 

[positivetennis]

In reference to the previous post this is what many Australian Journalists wrote about z's over the years:

 

Datsun 240z: Sensational car priced at $4567, Cut price E-Type without the maintenance costs. Some reported that the suspension was a little soft because we got US setting and that the car wandered around at high speed but could be improved with a front spoiler. Came out in front of the TR6 in comparison tests. Put the Japanese car industry on the map as a series contender. Influential in the development of the Japanese automobile industry

 

Datsun 260z coupe: Better handling due to improved euro-spec suspension settings. Improved build quality and materials. Down on performance compared to early 240z's due to emission legislation and strength and safety improvements. Some felt that the early 260z coupe performed better than a late 73 240z.

 

Datsun 260z 2+2: More of a sporty car than a sports car. Reported as sufferring from E-typetypis. However many agreed the 2+2 to be a more practical car, with improved handling and roadholding. Won comparison test against the 351 XB falcon.

 

Datsun 280zx: Australia received 2+2 NA only as hardtop in 1979 then a targa available in 1980 then an improved series 2 in 1982. Changes in body details, trim, wheels, steering changed to rack and pinion. Performance 0-100 went from 11.3 for series 1 to 10.6 for series 2. Styling opinion divided, some criticised styling, while others thought it reached pinnacle for this shape. Criticised for losing sporty feel and moving too much towards a GT luxury cruiser car. Some felt the car was just evolving to present society expectations. Fuel injection solved 260z carb problems, steering much more easy to use, more comfortable seats, a/c standard in Australia, 4 wheel discs inspiring more confidence than disc/drum of earlier models. A car suffering mid-life crisis. Some journalist felt the car had lost the plot going from lean and mean to obese and serene.

 

Z31 1984-1985 NA 2+2 released in AU. Some journalist thought the car was vastly better styled than the 280zx but looked faster at the traffic lights than in reality. One caption was that the car was a sheep in wolves clothing. Some thought it was the bottom of an evil smelling barrel (See how journalists behave).

 

Z31 1986-1987 Turbo 2+2. Finally performance was better than the 240z by 2/10ths of a second over 400m. Suspension was vastly improved but was felt to be dated compared to the new NA supra.

 

Z31 1987- 1989 Turbo 2+3 Californian. Changes made to exterior styling, more rounded, interior toned done, turbo improved, but still no sports car.

 

Z32 NA 300zx 2+2 1989 - 1996: Journalists claim that the sports car concept of the 240z had been regained, compared to previous 300 its like they came from different planets. Very highly acclaimed exterior and interior design.

 

Now this is an example of how many jounalists saw each generation. I won't go into the 350z 370z as it is very current still, but in the next post I can give a different account based on another perspective. Personally I feel that many journalists paraphrased what was coming out of the US, and some of their views did not coincide with the actual sales that transpired with the 280zx and z31 even though the cars were heavily criticised.