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FUTURE Z CAR NATIONALS

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.... a more family friendly event could be arranged where our significant others and offspring also gained benefit from attending, the numbers and also spend by participants could be much higher.

 

Yeah!!!  PENGUINS!!!!

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Welcome back Simon, nice to see you take the sting out of a serious discussion.

 

Back to the serious stuff though.

 

Years ago I was involved with a National league club, (no we wont go there google search to find out more) and I came up with an idea which we pitched at Ford Australia, you are right when you say that a company like Nissan wont part with cash, but what they will part with is product at if it is cash neutral.

 

Ford Holden Nissan and every maker have internal pricing for their products, in other words, retail, dealer and promotional, the latter being barely above production cost, and they can allocate these prices to vehicles when they are being used for promotional reasons.

 

So, being 2 years out, it would be worthwhile speaking to their marketing team and asking if a deal could be done where 2 vehicles would be supplied for raffle purposes, lets say the retail value of a 370Z and a smaller passenger vehicle was $100K, their promotional internal cost would probably be 60-70% of that, so you get them supplied for lets say $70K, sell raffle tickets over the next 2 years at $2.00 a pop, rake in $100K, hand over $70k to Nissan, net $30K towards the event.

 

Theres more than one way to skin a cat.

 

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I like the way you think there John.

What are the costs involved to run a raffle like that though? (licensing and promo)

And a gamble that you could actually sell 50,000 tickets.

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The main thing I took from this year's nationals was that all details need to be finalised and promoted much further out from the event than it was. People won't commit without something concrete, and getting the needed info only a month or two out from the event was just too late. I personally know a few people who didn't attend for just this reason.

 

It can be an expensive undertaking to drive to another state for a few days - people need to plan, time to save, time to book holidays, etc.

 

One thing that I feel really adds value is an alternative event organised on the day that the track day is run. Not everyone will put their car on the track, so a navigational run or even just a drive / cruise to local points of interest will give those people something to do for that day (or for the rest of the family for those who do hit the track). The 2007 nationals were great in this regard, having everone end up at the track for a few parade laps at lunchtime was really good.

 

 

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Dave

 

you are spot on ............we have found that not all want to blast around the track hence why I planned the Nav Rally as an alternate event for 2007, also the track entry was capped at 100 entrants (from memory) so we had to plan for an alternative event for those who may have missed it.

The morning nav rally with over sixty entrants ended with a couple of parade laps around the P.I circuit..........which was a highlight for those who had not driven the circuit before.

The 2001 Nationals held in Sheparton also had a third competition day where we held a motokhana on the skid pan at Deca (Sunday was the track day with an alternate touring drive of the local country side and wineries).............unfortunately Sheparton is out for the foreseeable future due to the Easter Nats moving to Winton.

 

So it is my view that you must cater for all with a variety of events.........some like the Show n Shine, others a nav rally/touring drive........others are into track events.

The last three of the NDSOC hosted Nats have catered for all tastes and next year wll be no different.

 

Al.

 

 

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  For those of you thinking about doing this event, don't think about it just do it.  I was at 2001 and 2007 and I can tell you it will be the best Easter you will ever have. Doing the hole weekend with the family was fantastic, we all loved it. You all have heaps of time to get those cars ready and put a bit of money aside. From memory there would have been over 40 zeds lining the beach promenade, more zeds in the one place than I have ever seen in my life. So for the zed lovers there is plenty there. For me one of the high lights was all Nissan and Datsuns together. It was like a kid in a candy store looking into all the engine bays, paint jobs , brake's etc. Not to mention a few hot laps around the Island. It is a must do. I don't care what some of you guys say about the NDSOC, they know how to put a show on. Very professional, and it will be the best that they can possibly make it. Yours truly Gordon.

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If the 2013 Nat sprints are going to be at Phillip Island then by whatever means it takes I will be there. With the 280ZXT if it is still alive :)

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Little birdie whispers is that Bathurst FOSC Easter 2012 could???, be go, there will be some form of contract for a couple of years extra, no doubt. With council.

 

Now, if, and a bloody big if, say two organising parties COULD get togethwr, shate costs, bring more entrants, cars, show and shine, social things, etc, along to a group that KNOWS HOW to run a meeting at the most iconic track in this country, then it is a win for all.

Mercedes did it in 2008 porsche in 2010, Datsuns in 2013???

 

BUT god forbid, that two separate organisatipns can work together!

Just little birdie whispets, at this stage???

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Funny you say that Jason,

I had preliminary discussions with FOSC following the 2010 event, about holding a Nissan / Datsun day on the Easter Monday following the 2011 Goulburn Nats.

As you are aware, Bathurst FOSC 2011 didn't happen and as such discussions came to a halt.

 

My understanding of one of the reasons FOSC didn't go ahead in 2011 was something about only one organisation being able to run regularity blah blah and also that part of the event was for car manufacturers to get involved with product launches and the like. 

If this is the case, then each year a different manufacturer could support the event and all the revelant clubs attached to that manufacturer attend.

 

2012, being the "off" year of the NDNs, would be awesome to hold a Nissan focused FOSC event.

 

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I had the same understanding regarding "only one organisation running a regularity at the mountain" but nobody treats it as a regularity anyway so lets run an economy run ;) ......................The person who can complete 5 laps and check their economy the quickest wins :D

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Not relevant on topic, but in the "off"year of 2012, the three day june queens birthday long weekend is vacant at Morgan Park Warwick.

The z club up hete sort of booked it, but have dcided that it doesnt want to be bothered going ahead, as some reckon it is financially a risky thing to do.

Morgan Park track hire, and ancilliary costs, including cams permit, medical crews, fire marshalls, and other things needed, would cost aporox 12 to 14 k. Entry fee of $160 per car, times max of 120 , min of 80, would pay?

 

I have suggested to FOSC to bring their circus to Warwick, and was met with enthusiasm!

 

Big question is how many southernets would come up for three days of motorsport, with a show and shine, and Satday Nite 1/8 th mile straight line event?

Can people still afford, and have ability, to travel to largish events?

There arent too many personnel that are CAMS qualified to run these things at a club level basis, here in Qld!

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Run the 'kamikaze' circuit from the top of the hill down into the new circuit part, that would liven up boring Morgan Park and create some interest  ;D  Problem is most Zeds in Q run 5:1 diffs so anything over 100kph is problematical, only a slight exaggeration for stirring  purposes :)

 

I think it says something that virtually no clubs in Q run CAMS sprints anymore, other than the WDSCC of course. I was involved a couple of Q Nationals back in organising the CAMS sprint at QR and swore then that it would be the last one, they are just too frustrating and time consuming to expect volunteers without experience to organise them. Then there is the requirement for officials, the Z Car Club Q Inc has one, one, member who is CAMS qualified and I gather he has had enough too.

 

Which is why the next Q Nats sprints should be held at Lakeside.

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I would definitely come up, I love a good road trip.

 

Good to meet other people and a much more "relaxed" way to do stuff than a single day event where I get up before dawn, drive a few hours to the track, unpack all my stuff, do the event, pack up and drive home exhausted.

 

I could be wrong, but I think one reason why FoSC had to cancel their meeting scheduled for this weekend at Wakefield Park (due to low entry numbers) is that they under-estimated this aspect of their events. They were trying to "condense" things so that (despite the whole event running over three days) each individual entrant only attended one day for all their events. The intent was stated to be reducing accomodation costs / etc for entrants, but perhaps the lack of entries indicates that people treat these events as a social event as well as simply a race meeting ?

 

 

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Would it be possible to hold a Z Car NATIONALS in the off year of the Nissan Datsun Nationals in an other State ?

Or would this be spreading things to thin to be able to organise?

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Hello Aub!

Why not, just keep it all Z centric, do like all other single model clubs do, agree to meet at a central location that suits all ( watch for the arguments on that one!) just gather at a local park, lift bonnets, go Ooh Aahh a lot, than have a dinner, tjen go for a drive on some nice country roads, not too rough though, dont want paint chips on the trailer queens.

 

Forget any competition, sprints  lapdash, hillclimb, etc etc, as that is consideted too risky to a clubs finances, nowadays!

As low event entrant (Z cars only)  numbers will make the risk of track hire anywhere, to cost prohibitive, and, lack of CAMS officials within a club, along with the manpowere required to run events, will negate it.

A loose AASA run event, tacked on the back of a pre-existing AASA organised event, could satisfy the mine's fastwr than your's brigade.

 

There is no reason at all that a Z only Nationals could be run, at any time, considering the plethora of Jap based car shows/events etc tjat are held all over the country these days.

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A purely Zed events is a nice idea however the challenge will be to find people willing to organise it ............having been on event committees for the past three NDSOC hosted nationals ( and the next coming up in 2013) , I know level of effort required ...........even a "Knob Polishing" event and a social drive/nav rally takes considerable organisation. And then there is the financials (trophies, booking venues etc)  .

 

Al.

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You still chewing that bone Jason . Can not be much meat left on it by now.

It seems that almost everyone who has replied to this thread has at some point been involved in at least one National event at some level. So we know it can be done . Cost is not a real issue ,it is a matter of value for money for what can be organised. Getting the organizers on the same page is another issue. With that done everthing thing after should fall into place. Having said that we all know its a good feeling when its over .I do not believe this kind of event should be left to die .Even if it is just a few lap dashes and a knob polishing event. I feel both the NDN type events and Z Nats should have a place in our calendars. ZCCQ will look at this issue in up coming meetings. 

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You still chewing that bone Jason . Can not be much meat left on it by now.

It seems that almost everyone who has replied to this thread has at some point been involved in at least one National event at some level. So we know it can be done . Cost is not a real issue ,it is a matter of value for money for what can be organised. Getting the organizers on the same page is another issue. With that done everthing thing after should fall into place. Having said that we all know its a good feeling when its over .I do not believe this kind of event should be left to die .Even if it is just a few lap dashes and a knob polishing event. I feel both the NDN type events and Z Nats should have a place in our calendars. ZCCQ will look at this issue in up coming meetings.

No bone chewing here,  simple math, when Z car club Qld gets charged $12000 a day for use of a track in 2011, you need a lot of Zeds to make it pay, or just charge the 30 or 40 that "might" turn up $400 or $300 each for half a dozen 20 minute sprint sessions, then add on top all the other costs for a Zed centred get together.

Hence the suggestion of jst do a show and shine, go for drive meet, like majority of other single model types do.

 

When a committee starts to get the jitters over the possible financial risks to the healthy bank balance of staging an event that is targeted at a wider audience, thus ensuring a greater level of success, as was mooted for middle of this year, under CAMS authority, and adopt a negative stance, then there cant be too much in it for any other events to be considered in a positive light. Basic back of envelope figures showed the mooted event would have paid for itself, plus bring new membetship, as well as positive multi club exposure.

Sure not a Nationals, but, are the Nationals, as a concept, dying?

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This is getting very confusing. A far as sprint days go we had the hugely successful LapZ which was basically a 'Z and friends' day, as with any sprint event these days there are not enough Z participants in Q to make a Z exclusive sprint viable. That is obvious. It should be noted that a lot of the burden of organising LapZ fell on Dusty, as far as I know since then noone has stepped forward and volunteered to organise another LapZ so it should be pretty obvious, again, what bringing an event into being requires.

 

As it is in Q there are heaps of car related events already, they are on all the time so there is no lack of opportunity for anyone in the ZCCQ to put their hand up and organise something. But I'm sort of glad things are as they are, so much freedom of choice. If anyone wants to be organised and hand fed then join  the Kraut Klub :P

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The other thing that someone could 'complain' about is Z attendance at Lakeside sprints, that's if someone wanted something to complain about. Lakeside has to be the fastest and most challenging short track in Oz. Yet the only regular S30 sprinter there is Neville M in his hybrid S30, plus there is the occasional NON ZCCQ MEMBER 280ZX and 300ZX. It has me buggered why more Z cars are not right into Lakeside, it really has.

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I played last year at Lakeside in the top gear series, when are you guys going to have a go at real racing in prodsports??????

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The 97 Zed Nats used the lakeside circuit for the sprint and it was brilliant..............a shame we did not get to go back there in 2009.

 

Getting back to the subject, Jason has hit the nail on the head (as was stated earlier) ..............the number of Zeds do not add up to a cost effective event. The Roadster clubs hold an annual Nationals and confine it to a "Knob Polishing" display and follow the leader type drive and a weekend chat fest............ as  most of the Roadster fraternity are "knob polishers" and track shy so the lack of a sprint event does not worry most.

 

IMHO .........I think a Zed nationals without a track event would be a fizzer, hence why we must have combined events to keep them financialy vialble.

 

Al.     

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When a committee starts to get the jitters over the possible financial risks to the healthy bank balance of staging an event that is targeted at a wider audience, thus ensuring a greater level of success, as was mooted for middle of this year, under CAMS authority, and adopt a negative stance, then there cant be too much in it for any other events to be considered in a positive light. Basic back of envelope figures showed the mooted event would have paid for itself, plus bring new membetship, as well as positive multi club exposure.

Sure not a Nationals, but, are the Nationals, as a concept, dying?

 

Good to see you don't like to divluge the full story Jason, At the meeting last year when the event at Morgan Park was discussed, of course the financial risk was apart of the discussion, but why don't you mention what the REAL reason the event was squashed?

 

I asked those who were at the meeting (and the were a lot of committe and non committe members there  all up about 20+ ) who would be willing to put there hand up to help you organise this type event, and apart from you Jason, how many people were willing to volunteer there time to help you?

 

For those who weren't at the meeting it was a BIG F@#$ing 0 and i know! you cant organise an event like that without help,

 

So why don't you stop saying that we have a negative stance or the jitters , just because the event at Morgan Park over the Queens Birthday event  was something that You! personally wanted to do, and we as a club did not vote to support it.  Because lets face it nobody was willing to volunteer there time to help you . So GET OVER IT!!! and move on. If you think the event would  be a goer, and you defiantly have the financial means to back this type of event, why haven't you got an event going and organised it yourself?  Let lets face it, Dusty with help from Aub and only a small amount of help from me, was able to do LapZ 2 years running. Stop bitching and organise an event yourself!!!

 

Regarding the Future of the Nationals, if enough ZCCQ members are willing to volunteer there time to run a Nationals in whatever format, i cant see why it wont happen. But lets face it if nobody from the ZCCQ is willing to volunteer there time to organise a Nationals  then i guess we wont be doing it!

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Time to set the record straight .

This is the financial for the last 2 LAPZ  events held at Lakeside . 2010 was a standard street sprint day on the QUEENSLAND RACING calendar . We booked three groups of 20 runners at $1750 per group at a cost of $100 per entrant.This for a total number of four runs of five laps each. Because their were so many of us all 6 groups on the day were of 20 runners each . This was to much for their timing systems to deal with on the day. With the left over funds we purchased base ball caps and stickers of the day for each entrant.

2011 we were asked to book our own day for the club . But rules had changed , it was now three hours of private practice and four hours of timed runs. We were offered 6 groups of 15 runners at $2000 a group. But with some arm twisting a deal was struck at $10000 for the whole day . We were allowed 75 cars in all but could only attract just over 63 on the day. The cost was set at a $160 per car which just covered costs .  So we organised sponsors for hand outs on the day from Silverstone Tyres ,Autobarn and others . Also you could get a hot Breakfast and 1/2 Hour of paced track time for $20 on the  morning of the day. All of entrance fees we charged were well below what a private entry fee is for a street Sprint with private practice.

How do I know this. Because I organised it.

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