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Gordo

Change from triple webers to fuel injection

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i found these guys advertising on another forum, http://stackinjection.com.au/ pretty cheap for the v8 gear, and on the other forum they mentioned they could develop something for holden 6, so the nissan 6 couldnt be much harder.

 

@galderdi: what do you need the timing for, ie megasquirt or haltech or motec or other ecm? hall effect is a type of signal generated by magnets that spin, either in the dizzy or on the flywheel or pulley with a sensor.

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Yeah I plan to install an after market ECU. I am not sure which brand, it just depends which one comes up for the right price.

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Depending on what ECU you want to use and what input it needs, when I used the Wolf computer, I just modified a standard 280ZX electronic distributor to suit. It involves locking it so there is no vac advance (as the ECU controls it now) and just installing a new magnet plate for a stronger pulse to make it easier for the ECU to read and less errors. Another option would be a turbo L28 electronic distributor with a optical sensor; very similar to a RB30 model. All it is there for is to tell the ECu when to fire the coil and distribute the spark. The RB30/L28 Turbo ones with the optical sensor do the firing of the coil and if you want to run distributor-less ignition, tell the ECU where and when cylinder #1 fires as the rest in the firing order.

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Depending on what ECU you want to use and what input it needs, when I used the Wolf computer, I just modified a standard 280ZX electronic distributor to suit. It involves locking it so there is no vac advance (as the ECU controls it now) and just installing a new magnet plate for a stronger pulse to make it easier for the ECU to read and less errors. Another option would be a turbo L28 electronic distributor with a optical sensor; very similar to a RB30 model. All it is there for is to tell the ECu when to fire the coil and distribute the spark. The RB30/L28 Turbo ones with the optical sensor do the firing of the coil and if you want to run distributor-less ignition, tell the ECU where and when cylinder #1 fires as the rest in the firing order.

 

Excellent, so where can I get a new magnet plate for an L28 dizzy?

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Excellent, so where can I get a new magnet plate for an L28 dizzy?

 

Last I heard they were NLA but try different Nissan dealerships...they might still be around.

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I make a distributor  with a home and trigger built in it is a VL type cas with a billet housing and it costs $600 and it has been very reliable

 

I am probably about 6-8 months off having my new engine ready. What is your lead time / next batch for one of these?

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Hi Guys,  Well I have taken the carby's off the car for another look over and a few mods, I will replace the needle and seats as this seems to be recamended. the aux venturi will be changed from 4.5 to 3.5. I know alot of you guys are saying to try this and that. And I can assure you all main jet and air jet combo's have been try ed. AS well as 5 differant emultion tubes. And as some of you would no, sometimes you have a gain in some areas but loose somewhere else. so after 26 runs on the dyno last week, and heaps of changes we end up with the same set up as the other dyno guy from last year, go figger. So I recon I have about one more shot at it or play time and if that don't work, I will put it up on blocks until they find a cure for it.

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Ok, I'm probably one of the least qualified to chime in, but.....

If your blowing black smoke all the way around the track, your running rich right?

So maybe your flat spot is coming from another link in the chain, exhaust maybe?

Just a thought, good luck Gordo?

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IMHO you have a reversion issue and the cheapest and easiest way to fix reversion and maintain performance is to tune the exhaust size. Whilst the diameters may be correct, secondary pipe length and merge style have a significant impact on power and torque curves. You may find that a smaller primary or secondary pipe diameter may reduce total power slightly but prevent the reversion or move it to a RPM range that does not impact the driveability of the vehicle. Find an exhaust expert. Peter Mac can probably assist with advice or a contact.

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Wayne, I think you have a valad point there. It will take alot of time to cut and shut the exhaust at a guesstimated diameter and length and then test it on the dyno. I have a few other things to try,  all I have is time and the exhaust thing has been playing on my mind for some time, and might be tried later down the track. Thanks Wayne.  Regards Gordon.

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Back again Guys. So the exhaust system may need looking at.  I measured the exhaust and premieres are 1" 3/4 at 32" long. 1,2and 3into a 2" 1/2 secondary, same as 4,5  and 6. The secondaries are about 25 " long ,not quit the same lengh as gear box and ground clearance is restrictive. And the secondaries flow into a 3"  tail pipe with a resonator and turbo muffler at the rear. So the system breaths really good ,maybe to good. To get more midrange power should I put two 2"  or 2"1/4 pipe sleeve's inside the secondaries to give more restriction and maybe more midrange power. I also need to work on the air speed at low rpm ( need more ) so the carbys get more of a signal. Inlet manifold vacum. What do you guys think about the exhaust ?

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hi Gordo

don't touch the extractors, where the pipe goes to the 3in reduce it to 2 1/4 and then straight back up to 3in .you need 2 cones welded together  it is very easy to make  give me a call and i will explane it a bit more

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Back again Guys. So the exhaust system may need looking at.  I measured the exhaust and premieres are 1" 3/4 at 32" long. 1,2and 3into a 2" 1/2 secondary, same as 4,5  and 6. The secondaries are about 25 " long ,not quit the same lengh as gear box and ground clearance is restrictive. And the secondaries flow into a 3"  tail pipe with a resonator and turbo muffler at the rear. So the system breaths really good ,maybe to good. To get more midrange power should I put two 2"  or 2"1/4 pipe sleeve's inside the secondaries to give more restriction and maybe more midrange power. I also need to work on the air speed at low rpm ( need more ) so the carbys get more of a signal. Inlet manifold vacum. What do you guys think about the exhaust ?

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Hi Guys I'm back. Things have taken a while, but I will get there. So a short up date. I have shortened the exaust seconderys from 900mm to 450mm and added a 2 bolt flange at the start of the 3'' so I can try a reducer at the next dyno. I have re fitted the 42mm venturies for max power ,also have a set of aux venturies 3.5mm and 5mm venturies to try with my already fitted 4.5mm aux ven. This will make the mains come in early'er and latter, which ever works best. Also have replaced rear wheel bearings as were a bit noisey. So I should get it back on the dyno in a couple of weeks . Will let you know how it goes. Cheers.

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I say stop being a tight ass and spend $10,000- to fix all your problems once and for all.

You know all this stuffing around and tune ups have probably cost you over $5,000- over the last 10 years anyway. Sometimes you have to spend money to save it dude.  :D

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What would cost $10,000?  :o

 

Even at the elevated Australian prices I'd say it's possible to go EFI for around $1200, or so. Being a little innovative wouldn't hurt to help keep the costs down.

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Even at the elevated Australian prices I'd say it's possible to go EFI for around $1200, or so

can you give us an idea of what you can get for $1200

cheers

Bruce

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bone stock 280zx setup.... might be able to squeeze in a megasquirt if you build it yourself. The figures the guys are are throwing around are for ITB setups

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you could also - modify the triple manifold for injector bungs, use a megasquirt and then some older DCOE carbs and gut them and use them as the butterflies ;) Would look good, have the advantage of the injection the sound of triples and a hybrid look :)

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I'm yet to see a cheap injection setup beat Weber's for hp, forget cheap injection for any descent race car, gordos car has been one of the fastest car in aus for a long time to better what he has got it will cost lots . there is injection and there is injection and getting the best out of a race motor means you need a ecu that is up to the job, and the i t b are not all the same you can by cheep sh t and that's what you get

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Any performance setup is going to cost and cost big be it EFI or Carb. Lets face it - performance is never cheap and that is one reason the Toyota Corolla is priced at a much lower point than an Aston Martin - different performance level altogether (ok a Friday and one of the guys is leaving work so I had a few at lunch time lol so not really and apple vs apple argument)

 

The point if you had a clear sheet of paper and had to purchase either EFI or Carbs from new both are going to cost a good amount of coin to get right. ie Carbs $1500, number of jets/chokes if you don't have a close starting point or a carb guy that can lend jets/chokes to get it right on your engine upto $500-1000 and dyno time $500-1000.

 

Other items on the engine should be the same, headers, engine build etc. So for Carbs from $2000-3500 - again assumes all new parts

 

Now EFI - good ITB $2000-2700, good ECU $1000-2000, injectors $500-700 - again assume headers,engine and fuel system up the EFI job these will be extra if you need to upgrade from low press to high press system and then dyno time too $500-1000

 

So EFI cost $4000-6400.

 

Peter raises a good point - a well setup L28 on crabs can be hard to bet even with a good EFI system (ok a great EFI system might be better) but a great EFI setup is going to cost a lot of coin. If I had mine time again for the power goals of my engine (even though it is a RB) I should have stuck with carbs would have been cheaper and also very different too. I know the reasons for going EFI as those are some of the same reason I decided to go down this path ie more liveable as a road car, easy of having 2 maps (mild for the road and more free for the track). At times I think I should have stuck with carbs for my NA RB powered car that way I would not had required fuel system upgrades, injectors, ECUs etc - I could have just got a good crank trigger ignition setup and stuck with carbs and the car would be perfect like that for 1/2 the cost.

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