RLY240 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm thinking of entering the Targa High Country rally this year but a quick look at the regs for last year's event concerns me in a few areas. My 1972 240z was built specifically for Classic Adelaide (and it's compliant) and the tech regs are quite different in some areas and my concern is that it's going to be a pain making the car comply with the THC regs. In particular the rules that affect me are: Head Gasket thickness - we had copper gaskets made which are undersize and must be original thickness. Wheel width - we run 7" wheels and my reading is that the maximum allowed is 6.5" Spoilers - we run MSA front and rear spoilers and I can't see that any spoilers are allowed. Bonnet restraints - in CA front hinged bonnets don't need additional restraints but THC does. Bonnet vents - again in CA they are allowed but not in THC. I noticed that a couple of members ran in the 2010 THC and I'm hoping someone can clarify some of these items and let me know how they dealt with these regs. I guess that all of those points can be overcome but I'd rather not change the car. We didn't build a car to win, just want to run with the car we have and have fun. Lastly, the engine capacity is free in C3 but the block must remain standard, can anyone tell me if it's legal to run an L28 block or do you have to bore / stroke an L24 ? Appreciate any advice. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedrally Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Can you post a link to the Event/Supps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Can you post a link to the Event/Supps... Website http://targahighcountry.com.au/HighCountry/highcountry.html Supp Regs http://targahighcountry.com.au/download/2010THC-Sup%20Regs-V3-181010.pdf Runs in the first week of November, first run last year. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GV260 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hi Rog, This is the problem with having 2 different bodies with deifferent regs (CAMS vs AASA). Instead of decreasing costs it actuals increasese them. As with all events the adherance to the reg's is dependent on the scrutineers picking up the non-compliance issues. Pre-event scrutineering tends to be more safety focus as oppose to reg's compliance. Entrants are deemed to comply and if not at post event then you are disqualified. Post event scrutineering generally only occurs if you win or obtain a place. Hence if you think you are a contender then compliance is vital - ie head gasket, tye size etc will be vital. Most Z entrants do run with 7 inch rims as the scrtineers don't normally pick this up (ie they assume original wheel size was 5 inch - but I do run 6.5 myslef to comply). Spoliers - if you are using factory copies, no prob's but if using after market design's then it will technically be a problem (if the scrut's pick it up or a fellow competitor dob's you in!) refer to clauses C37 & C48 depending on what class you are entering (LMS or MS respectively). Likewise for bonnet vents. Re use of an L28 is permitted but you'll be forced into MS (clause C41 & C24). Re gasket clause 20 states "Cylinder Head Gasket - The material is free, but the thickness must not exceed the manufacturers reconditioning tolerances." As you are under in thickness, you'll have no prob's. As for the bonnet pins I have a set of traditional pins that extend up from the bonnet rubber bump stops to above the hood with a rubber underlay. Thus the body work is unmodified and not marked by the pins but it complies. I trust this helps. If in doubt wait until the new reg's come out for 2011 event and send an email to the Chief Scrutineer to clarify. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Hi Rog, This is the problem with having 2 different bodies with deifferent regs (CAMS vs AASA). Graham Thanks Graham, I have contacted the organisers for clarification. I'm not in it to win by any stretch, it's just a long way to go only to be rejected. We were lucky in that both CA and AHTR were both CAMS events (mostly). In the old Classic Adelaide days you could pretty much run anything as they were happy just to have your entry fees. The guys at the Adelaide Hills Tarmac Rally actually run the event very well and are quite happy to reject non-compliance at pre event scrutiny, such as headlamp covers. Our spoilers are MSA or factory copies so sound like they might be fine. We've always run in MS anyway as we run 2.8l. The main issues of concern are the wheels (expensive), head gasket (we run a thin copper one) spoilers and the bonnet vents but it might be an excuse to get a glass one. I really struggle with the rules sometimes as they are very restrictive on some items but completely open on others. ie in cMS the cylinder head is completely free so hello twin cam multi valve but you can only go plus 50% on the exhaust pipe for classics where moderns can run 4". Thanks for your feedback. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I assume you run a stock later model 240Z vented bonnet not a custom one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 I assume you run a stock later model 240Z vented bonnet not a custom one? It's a stock 260 2+2, did they also come on the 240's? Can you tell me what year? Thanks, Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I ran an overly modified Datsun 120Y at THC 2010, had a blast, it was gret fun. At scrutineering for the event there was not a lot, if any, at all of vehicle compliance checking. The class seems to be late Classic, with varoious subclasses depending on the mods done, this is aimed at the handicapping system they use, at the end of the day if you enter it as a stocko car, and it is bristling with mods, and you dont get caught/protested, you are only cheating yourself! If in doubt ask the guru of Tarmac stuff, Rob Devenish, his son Dan is on here, and will no doubt wade in here soonish?? Just do it, great value if you are a mainlander, I would not normally go to the expense and transport hassles of a trip to Tassie.'The other event is the Baw Baw tarmac event, early on in the year, less cost, less distance, and a good shakedown run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 It's a stock 260 2+2, did they also come on the 240's? Can you tell me what year? Thanks, Roger All I know is that late 240's had 260 bodies, I think they had vented bonnets and I think that the earlier vented bonnets were lighter than the later ones. May get a more useful response by asking the question in General. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted February 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 8, 2011 As I believe, the vented bonnets only came on the late 76-77 model 260Z (2 seater & 2+2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceburner Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 All I know is that late 240's had 260 bodies, I think they had vented bonnets and I think that the earlier vented bonnets were lighter than the later ones. May get a more useful response by asking the question in General. It was the other way round wasn't it... 74 260's had essentially the same bodies as late 240's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedrally Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 AASA events are generally simplified to run in and organise. CAMS can be very restrictive, hence the use of another body to provide the Insurance. That is all they do. I'd love be a fly on the wall if a protest was made. We have used AASA in club events, the jury is still out, but it keeps CAMS in their place. I wouldn't expect your zed to be rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Fairly sure I've seen what was essentially a vented 240 bonnet, the 260 bonnet all of which were vented has a much stronger and heavier inner frame for some reason. But my S30 knowledge is rusty so.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Most Z entrants do run with 7 inch rims as the scrtineers don't normally pick this up (ie they assume original wheel size was 5 inch - but I do run 6.5 myslef to comply). Interesting, just dug up the Nissan service manuals for the 1972 S30 and it says that the wheels were 14 x 5 J in all variants / markets. This contradicts the haynes manual and wiki and is I would think a more reputable source. Means that my 7" wheels should be OK after all. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GV260 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Looks like I'll have to update my rims......... Makes you wonder then where all the other references get the 4.5in rim size from - the earlier models must have come with 4.5 in? I agree however that if you are ever questioned at scrutineering they won't be able to argue against the Nissan manual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Aaahh just show them the FIA approved, and Japan Auto Federation initiated Homologation papers that you can buy from CAMS Australia, that show that 10inch rears and 8 inch fronts were valid for group 4 cars, the section for rim sizes has "Not Valid for PRC" stamped over it. PRC is Aussie CAMS speak for "Production Rally Car" ie a dirt car. Oh and they ran 4.5 inch wide stocko steel rims with very skinny pumped up to like 50 psi tyres for when it bucketted down with rain on the Japanese race tracks. there is a wonderful image on the Jap Watanbe website, driver even is wearing the de-riguer white "pudding basin" style helmet too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 OK, so I ordered the homologation papers from CAMS and they arrived today ($85 with post) and while they answer some of my questions, others remain a mystery for now or at least open to interpretation. Head Gasket - there is a reference to a compressed thickness of 1.2mm but no tolerances specified Wheels - looks like both 4.5" and 5.5" wide wheels were listed as standard as well as optional 8" (F) and 10" ® for Group 4 racing so I should be fine either way. Spoilers - the rear bob spoiler is listed in the options but not the front. vents - nothing listed for the 240 but a GRP bonnet is listed as an option so might have to lose the vents. Engine - my interpretation of the homologation papers is that both the L26 and L28 engines were listed as options for the HS30, the quote is "Another type of electronical controlled gasolene injection 2800cm3 engine can be selected for H(L)S30 cars as maker's option" so looks like this should be fine perhaps. Yesterday the new Classic Targa Adelaide was annouced to replacde the defunct Classic Adelaide rally and will run in September under Octogon and AASA so I definately need to make the car compliant. Thanks guys. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 After contesting Targa Tasmania this year, I would recommend you not waste any money changing the current specs on your car. The regs are very detailed and were complied 20 years ago when the event started and organisers cared. I spent alot of time sourcing parts that I didnt end up needing. After seeing the way they approach regs and their compliance I wouldnt worry about your vehicle. If you wanted you could protest every other vehicle there and their illegal mods. To rap it up, lip service is paid to that document and as long as your car looks decent and has an L-series engine you will be right. Happy to ans any other questions you have. 0439301824 MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zed74 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Agree with not getting too hung up on the regs etc. Lets face it - the "big wallet" guys could run a sequencial gearset in an original L series box and end up in the same class as you! :'( I built my car in 2004 for LMS & due to one issue (adjustable camber) ended up in MS - no drama I wasn't going to change & simply get put up one modification class. As I will never be on the podium & simply enjoy competing I send in the technical details of my car & have never had any issues with technical aspects. Fact is if you read what they say - you would have trouble building a car to comply & they are forever changing supp. regs. from year to year Competed in 2004, 2005 & 2008 classic adelaide under both CAMS & AASA & found no-one is that fussed about all the details - till the lawyers get called in whih is not what most people are about! I friend of mine also ran his SS class 240z in Targa High Country last year - and no attention was really paid to his car + no real standard class existed as he was the fastest standard Z their - but no prize etc. so he may as well had a "stroker motor" in his Z! If you want to "interpret" the supp. regs to a fine point - you can basically build a sports sedan and go tarmac rallying - have a look at the FJ holden that competes in THC, Targa Tassie etc. it is a sports sedan with an FJ body & 400hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLY240 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 With the Adelaide Hills Tarmac Rally run this weekend it was great to see the Zeds at the front of the pack coming 1st and 2nd in classic and 8th and 9th outright. Champagne tastes sweet... Octagon have now announced a change from AASA to CAMS for all their events so looks like we'll have consistent regs for the new Classic Targa Adelaide and we're happy that we comply. Thanks again for the feedback. Roger edit for ammended results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GV260 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Rog, I just paid my early bird deposit for Targa High Country. Hope to see you there. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceburner Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Rog, I just paid my early bird deposit for Targa High Country. Hope to see you there. Graham Do they allow any in car cameras? Would be awesome to see some footage of your car in action... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedrally Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Octagon have now announced a change from AASA to CAMS for all their events so looks like we'll have consistent regs for the new Classic Targa Adelaide and we're happy that we comply. Oh dear, look out for the CAMS Stewards peeking, prodding & checking minutia. I really don't understand this as Octogon originally bailed out of running under the CAMS umbrella due to over compliance. The flexibility of AASA gave them the freedoms that competitors where asking for. I wonder if this is because Octogon would like to see there events comply with FIA International Standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAZDA Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 ... And why is no-one griping about the huge discounts given by Morgan to a commercial entity (Octagon) for the four Targa's while the owners of CAMS (the Clubs) are not offered the same discount - around 60-70% - am guessing as to the structure of payment but it would seem the first event will be at the book rate (allowing Directors to say "no deals done on permit fees" - one has already said this) while the balance of the championship of four rounds will cost a peppercorn of $10,000 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Or, maybe, due to some rather recent event mishaps, including a death, mid event, that there are some issues with entrants and their families "testing" the claims process and red tape of AASA, and finding some difficultys. The two bodies (cams-AASA) operate quite differently, yet their ultimate underwriter of insurance is one and the same, it is in the process that there is a major difference. And yes the possibility of a mutt event discount seems valid enough to cause a change. Just wait for the red tape and regulation police to now strike, at least with AASA it was quite " loose" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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