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Jap Style Fender Mirror - Correct placement

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Anyone know where the 280zx fender mirror fits?

When I painted my car, I found the plugs (JDM car) but didn't write it down.

I'll check tomorrow night and see if they are visable from the underside and take note, if possible.

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This is most interesting. I think I have a different placement diagram on my computer somewhere. I'll have a look when I get home...

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Anyone know where the 280zx fender mirror fits?

Center is 350mm from the join of the headlight buckets towards the windscreen.

Bugger, didn't measure how far in though, will update later.... sorry

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Are the 280zx fender mirrors same size as the door mirrors? Or the fender mirrors longer/taller in size? I can't seem to find info on this :s can someone clarify please

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This is most interesting. I think I have a different placement diagram on my computer somewhere. I'll have a look when I get home...

 

I was wrong - I could only find a copy of the previously discussed 'incorrect' image. But I'm sure that Alan Thomas has the correct info in his archive :)

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Check out the Office  Tomitaku car. If there is going to be a car that is correct it will be this one

 

Not necessarily....

 

The Office Tomitaku car is actually a north American market 'shell that was converted to RHD. The front wings ( fenders ) they used were the generic later factory type without the pre-stamped holes for the fender mirrors, so they drilled them themselves.

 

The fact is that there are several different sets of dimensions for factory fender mirrors on the S30/S31-series Zs. None of them are strictly 'wrong', and - in terms of function - it doesn't actually make that much difference if you mount them a bit further back or forward, or a bit further in or out, as you simply swivel the moving parts to suit you where and how you sit in the car, and what you want to see.

 

If you're drilling holes in your car, it's up to you where you drill them. You are also free to use 510-series Bluebird and C10-series Skyline fender mirrors in the mistaken belief that they are the same as S30-series Z fender mirrors.....  ;)

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Thanks Alan,

Well there ya go; If the lines are that fuzzy, then the concourse judge can sod off when they tell you that they're in the wrong place!

:P

(I guess I'll stick to my aftermarket door mirror that's in a crappy spot...)

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Ben,

The frustrating thing is that the original illustration used for the template ( see post #2 on this thread ) was actually from an original Nissan document. It's an ILLUSTRATION, not a technical drawing. Anyone commenting on how that illustration doesn't "look" right is obviously missing the point....

 

The dimensions added to the illustration were taken from an original Japanese market car which was originally fitted with ( the correct.... ) S30-series Z fender mirrors. It's also worth noting that the measurements were taken to the edges of the plastic mounting gasket and not the centres of the mounting holes. These have been cross-referenced with some other original Japanese market cars, and to be honest they were all slightly different to eachother. Ask anyone to measure theirs, and you'll probably come up with a difference too. It's a bitch to measure to a curving datum point, or one that is covered in paint, so you have to take the dimensions with a pinch of salt anyway....

 

For the record, I've never seen an original factory document that specifically states any mounting point dimensions for these mirrors. 

 

 

 

 

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Ok I have asked the current owner of my old 240z (the red one that Adam likes so much ;)) to get some measurements. The fender mirrors were factory installed, the car is 71 build around 1200ish and NZ New and all NZ New 240z/260z had fender mirrors as we did not have legal issues with this location. I am waiting for the measurements based on the diagram in post #2 but the current owner (another Mike) does recall that there was approx 20mm different between LH and RH sides and they holes looked very factory.

 

More details to follow later ;)

 

Cheers

Mike

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Ok this is the reply I just got from the owner of my old 240z with fender mirrors. This does tie with the offset installation as recommend by Factory Nissan ILLUSTRATION posted in post #2. These numbers were taken as stated by HS30-H from the plastic mounting gaskets and using the ILLUSTRATION as - well go figure an ILLUSTRATION to take the measurements from :)

 

Anyway here is the reply

 

A= 173mm

 

B= 238mm

 

C= 172mm

 

D= 260mm

 

 

 

Measurements taken to the edge of the plastic gasket thing that the mirror sits in.

 

 

 

I could get a measurement for the actual holes in the guard at the weekend if needed.

 

 

 

Even (the wife) hadn’t noticed the different offsets on the mirrors until we just measured them.

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Any idea on where to get the plastic mounting gaskets? My mirrors didnt come with any  :-\

 

NZeder do you have any photos of where teh mirrors are mounted on your old car?

 

HS30-H: i'd tend to have to dissagree with you in that it doesnt matter if they are a bit forward or back. In my opinion you can plainly see that mirrors mounted with this diagram generally look different to japanese cars. I guess it depends how picky you are on stuff like this, which i am.

 

 

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HS30-H: i'd tend to have to dissagree with you in that it doesnt matter if they are a bit forward or back. In my opinion you can plainly see that mirrors mounted with this diagram generally look different to japanese cars. I guess it depends how picky you are on stuff like this, which i am.

 

I look forward to seeing you take some actual measurements from original Japanese market cars, fitted with the correct type of mirrors.

 

Just don't be surprised if you come up with more than one set of dimensions ( I've already mentioned that there's more than one OEM placement ), and if somebody on the internet doesn't agree with you because he thinks they 'look' wrong....

 

Good luck!

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FWIW my NZ-new early '74 260 originally had fender mirrors, the holes in the guards I plated under about 25 yrs ago in favour of door mirrors as a PO had installed cheapo streamlined bullet mirrors using the same locations that were next to useless. However, as far as I can estimate where the centre of the main mirror mounting hole was on each side they would, I'm pretty sure, match the dimensions NZeder has provided above so they are further back than on the diagram in post #2 & slightly further out towards the roll of the guard but definitely not on the roll curve.

My 2-cent's worth is this - that the NZ-new cars had 'export' mirror placement whereas the Jap home market cars had the mirrors more forward & more inboard, & probably due to a car width rule tax which apparently existed at the time - fender mirrors were favoured for Jap-delivery cars as they were more compact (so car was overall narrower) than door mirrors (on the widest part of the car) for road tax purposes. I could well be quite wrong &/or upset some people but I'm thinking that diagram in post #2 is for factory placement of mirrors for the Z Fairladys sold new in Japan. And all that would tie in with what HS30-H is trying to point out.

As I recall there were two holes to each guard, the second being a small locating hole for a lug on the mirror baseplate forward of the main mounting hole.

The fender mirrors on 240s were more slender than those on the 260s from what I recall of NZ-new cars, presumably the same here.

 

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I think that there is just one location and the ones that you and NZeder have pointed out are correct.

If you look at photos of Japanese cars they are further back and further out.

 

J-spec:

2227705920_868a9b07c5.jpg

img_1647389_28280393_1?1197696694

img_1647389_28280393_2?1197696694

0706179a20091118w00104.jpg

s30_r32taka.jpg

image.aspx?src=http%3a%2f%2fimg01.carview.co.jp%2fminkara%2fblog%2f000%2f014%2f051%2f621%2f14051621%2fP1.jpg

 

Now ill pick on a few of my favorite Z's and my car which have been mounted using the diagram:

Gareth's:

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7451.0;attach=17110;image

These guys on Hybridz:

datsun240z.jpg

DSC_5431.jpg

 

And of course my car in the first page of this thread, looks like mine are even further forward cause they don't have the plastic mounting piece, damn.

 

Anyway i'm over it if you want to mount them in the middle of your guards go ahead. When i repaint my car i will be moving them out board and backward.

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I think that there is just one location and the ones that you and NZeder have pointed out are correct.

 

Now ill pick on a few of my favorite Z's and my car which have been mounted using the diagram:

These guys on Hybridz:

datsun240z.jpg

 

And of course my car in the first page of this thread, looks like mine are even further forward cause they don't have the plastic mounting piece, damn.

 

As I've already mentioned, there was more than one set of mounting positions on the Japanese market cars. If you choose to ignore that fact, it's up to you.

 

The mounting positions on that orange car above are visibly odd ( I think it takes a fair difference in measurement to make it that visible ), but what proof do you have that the dimensions I provided were used for that? I certainly didn't create the 'flipped' diagram and measurements that people are using for the LHD cars, and I think some people have clearly misunderstood what is being measured to and from. Some of them are using C10-series Skyline and 510-series Bluebird mirrors ( with the different angled / shorter stalks ), and some of them clearly need to be supervised when using measuring instruments and sharp implements.....

 

With all due respect to yourself, I'm wondering how you mounted your own mirrors without the proper plastic bases? If you didn't have the bases ( the edges of which are what the measurements I provided actually use as datum points ) then how did you measure anything?   

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I agree with both of you, Mine do look further in than others I have seen, but there is a factory blanking plate under the guards that I drilled through. Also I am running the shorter style and not the original factory longer stalk mirrors. But in all the pics you have shown each location IS different. I'd suggest keep looking like you have done and find somewhere in the middle and most important a location you are happy with, after all you are going to be looking at it more than anyone else  :)

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IMO the correct 240Z style whether in the forward (Jap market) position or the rearward (eg NZ market) location they look just fine, it's more the slender proportions of the mirror & the angle the car is viewed from; they wouldn't want to be any further back.

My NZ-new early-'74 260 had substitute mirrors when I bought it in '84, but my then-boss's old car was around, which he'd bought new & only kept a couple of years, a sister car to mine in every respect, & it had fender mirrors which looked different to those on 240s, similar height but slightly chunkier all round & very dark grey not black; for years I kept an eye out for a set at wrecker's yards but never found any. Sadly I eventually I found his old car in a wrecker's yard too, it had hit something low & solid & been written off; but the mirrors & useful parts were already stripped.

Were Zs sold with factory fender mirrors anywhere else other than in Japan & NZ?

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My 76 260z had fender mirrors and it is a general RHD export model (different spec to Australian spec 260z of the day, and different to the Euro spec aka UK cars, these are the spec cars that were shipped and sold in NZ). My 260z was not an NZ new car - imported in 78 from one of the Pacific Island. Other countries that did get fender mirrors were places like Singapore, other Asia cointries too.

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OK, old thread, i know, but why start a new one when all the info is kept in one spot.... i have modified the "original" fender mirror placement drawing with measurements taken to centre of mirror hole mount (the large hole) as supplied earlier in the thread.

 

I'll be doing this soon so after looking at several 240ZG pics i think this is as close to JDM original as we can get without actually going to the Nissan museum with a tape measure.

 

 

 

post-1837-144023687688_thumb.jpg

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I did my best to take some top down shots of fender mirrors on cars in museums if you are interested? I can post them up.

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my S1 240 has the fender holes. Factory ones. ill measure up and confirm if they same as the diagram. post tomorrow

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