NZeder 260z RB26 powered, triple DCOE throttle bodied NA project

[NZeder]

Updated my website so pics when missing - now putting thumbnail pic back - click to see/download the full pic

 

Well having posted some info in the following thread - I thought I should start my own journal.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2377.0.html

 

So just to recap from above thread.

I purchased a RB25/26DE hybrid that I will be installing to my 260z 2 seater.

My project has been 10+ years in the making with the car removed off the road to cut out the rust from under the battery box. A number of project changes have occurred over this time, along with other zed purchases to shift my focus from time to time. So here are just some pics of the car from my site - from when the car was purchased to its current state - the summary view

[NZeder]

Ok so today I started to strip the engine so I can repaint the block. So here are some more pics/links to pics.

 

Anyway the DOHC engine is now home after sitting at the brothers workshop for a while. Infact sat in the garage at home for a long time too. I started to strip the engine so I can clean up the block and repaint it and get it ready for the DCOE throttle body install. So I found out that the factory 432's had their blocks painted a bright silver so I will paint my hybrid RB25/26DE (that is RB25 bottom end with RB26 head in normally aspirated config) the same. However looks like this will have to be custom as normal engine enamel in a car from REPCO and the like only come in Blue (two types, holden and ford), Red, Black and Orange.

 

So here is pic of the S20 engine in the original colour - you will notice the front sump setup so this is from a GTR Skyline.

Here is a pic of the engine bay of a 432z

Now some pics of the stripping of the engine getting ready for paint removal and then painting later over the break.

So first up is the engine with the wiring harness removed

Pic of the spider under the intake

Another pic of the plumbing

Plenum and standard RB26 TB's removed - I was surprised how light this plenum is as it does not look that light.

Another shot of the RB26 TB's

Engine shot without plenum and tb's installed you can see the spider

Close up of the spider

Spider and intake manifold removed from the engine

Pic of engine with the manifold/plenum/TB's removed

[zzzzed]

Nice!!! There is some real nice body work there

[Zedman240®]

Love the flares on the 260. Now I can see why you want it finished asap. Its going to be a killer zed!

[NZeder]

Yes my brother is a good panel man just for me not fast  :-\ 13 years off the road is long enough - so it will be finished in the next 6 months.

 

I will be catching up with my bro on boxing day so I will be arranging for him to open the shop so I can go over and do some work during the break. I will take the engine back to his shop as he has some paint for the block now too

 

I just need to make up my mind on the air cleaner/air box setup for the throttle bodies. The issue is these trumpets are large and the K&N filters I had (purchased for the old race car but never fitted them) will not work as the trumpets are too wide so the filter does not fit over. So then I was thinking of making up a clear air box out of Lexan (well like lexan but more fire resistant ie PC = PolyCarbonate) but this depends on how flash I want to get with under the engine bay - for now I just want to get the car back so I can get it assembled, certified and back on the road so I am now thinking about just getting a ITG Multi Carb Megaflow filter - see here for a pic

That way I can work on the PC airbox over time and get it right etc (if I go down that path the ITG might look fine)

 

What are your guys thoughts on this?

[Zedman240®]

I've seen several setups where there was no air box used, but rather they insulated the whole area underneath, top until the bonnet and all the way to the front of the engine bay to make one huge airbox; the bonnet being the lid. On the side of the airbox that's mounted on the carbs/throttle bodies was a rubber seal so when the bonnet is shut, its like a large airbox. I might have a pic somewhere to show in case I don't make any sense. I've thought of that myself but been told its alot of work.

[NZeder]

I know what you mean - I have seen a few race cars with that setup - a good idea but as you say a lot of work + the bonnet I have is a vented one so that is lid option gone right there. So I think I will just get a ITG unit in the New Year so I can get the car running as soon as I have it home - Feb I hope.

[Toecutter]

I've seen several setups where there was no air box used, but rather they insulated the whole area underneath, top until the bonnet and all the way to the front of the engine bay to make one huge airbox; the bonnet being the lid. On the side of the airbox that's mounted on the carbs/throttle bodies was a rubber seal so when the bonnet is shut, its like a large airbox. I might have a pic somewhere to show in case I don't make any sense. I've thought of that myself but been told its alot of work.

 

So they still runa filter at the front with a pipe that goes to that box?

 

Sulio

 

Nzeder, thats a patient build. All done very nicely! Just thinking as I was looking through the pics how much time goes into something like that, how could you ever put a price on it. Labour of love you'd call it hey. Looking forward to seeing it painted up.

 

Sulio

[NZeder]

Well spend most of today using paint striper, wire brushes, razor blades and the odd screw driver to remove all of the old blue paint. And as expected some of the original RB Black paint was under there too.

 

So with all the blue removed and 95% of the original black (man that stuff was stuck with the 5% in the corners and tight spots so this does not look like it will ever move) the head and front cover etc were all masked up and a good few coats of acid etch primer, then silver was put down. Now I did not take my camera with me so a pic will have to wait until I go to collect the engine in a few days after some time to quire. But the colour turned out just like the S20 engine shown in this tread above. So now just to replicate that rocker cover colour - that might be harder.

 

Thinking I might also make up some stripes like the original S20 rocker cover too but have NISSAN and 2600 on the top.

 

Thoughts on the rocker cover idea?

[NZeder]

Ok got some pics of the painted block for you to see let me know what you think

 

 

Did some work on the intake manifold today - blocked of the original injector locations with small frost plugs and 2 holes I made by removing the spider from the vacuum block. See this pic for what I mean.

I will post pics of the completed intake tomorrow or the next day

 

 

[redrbzed]

Hi NZeder,

I'm curious as to why you want to move the injectors away from the port?

From what I understand the best position for the injector is aimed at the back of the intake valves.

If you move the injector away from the port you get more chance of wetting of the manifold and poorer driveability as a consequence.

[C.A.R.]

Sort of, Sinisha.

In a NA engine situation, moving the injector further away from the port allows for better fuel attomisation, & hence more power.

However this does come at the cost of slightly poorer fuel consumption.

Ideally the injector should be situated at the beginning of the intake runner (trumpet).

Just have a look at a V8SC style injector setup.

 

The reason manufactures try to get the injector as close as possible to the valve is to promote smooth, fast throttle response & at the same time give good fuel economy.

[NZeder]

As Lurch as already stated - for better fuel atomisation not that fussed about fuel consumption. My engine builder (did not build this one as I imported from Japan already built) told me the further away I can get it the better for this NA setup. This is why I made the adaptors out of 20mm plate. However given the room I have between the strut tower and the inlet I could have made these out of 50mm plate thus moving the injectors another 30mm further away - that might be a task for later if more HP is required (or just put the head on a RB30e bottom end for another 400cc)

 

Going to collect the engine and intake manifold later today so I will show you pics of intake with the injectors holes blocked off - I was going to weld these up but then thought about the frost plug idea - this way if I ever need or want to install injectors back near the head I can....maybe if I wanted 2 set-ups ie one for power with the injectors away and another for better fuel consumption using smaller injectors close up - or to add more fuel who know this is why I did not weld the holes so to keep the options open.

[NZeder]

Here are pics of the inlet manifold and vacuum block with the frost plugs installed.

 

[NZeder]

Well did not get to do much over the last few days   but I did get a change to install the cleaned up stock RB26 intake manifold

 

Then I attached the DCOE Adaptors plates

 

So today I will be going down the road at lunch time to get some new M8 studs so I can install the DCOE throttle bodies in the next day or so. I am still not 100% sure what I will do with regards to the air cleaner/air box setup so I will just think about this some more.

[stevo_gj]

Looks great man, good to see your still working on it.

[Zeddophile]

Looking good!  I might have to steal your idea of using welsh plugs in the injector holes too, since one of my rubber grommets shot out from behind the cable tie on the way home in the (finally running) Alfa yesterday.  LOUD backfires resulted!

[NZeder]

Looking good!  I might have to steal your idea of using welsh plugs in the injector holes too, since one of my rubber grommets shot out from behind the cable tie on the way home in the (finally running) Alfa yesterday.  LOUD backfires resulted!

by all means do - welding up the holes was an option but not during the xmas break so I just used welsh plugs (frost plugs - I guess I should have used the correct name ) and in the end it turned out fine (would have been better if I had cut them down first - a job for RON as in later on). And I think a great idea if I don't say so myself.

[Zeddophile]

welding up the holes was an option but not during the xmas break so I just used welsh plugs (frost plugs - I guess I should have used the correct name Smiley) and in the end it turned out fine (would have been better if I had cut them down first - a job for RON as in later on). And I think a great idea if I don't say so myself.

 

I also contemplated welding up the holes, but mine are in the throttle bodies themselves, which are a long way upstream, so I'd like to leave the option open to refit the motorbike injectors later on for high rpm tuning.  Welsh plugs is still reversible (with some effort!), but much more secure than the grommets I currently have.  Unfortunately I fall right between two sizes of plug, going to have to get the bigger size and grind down by 1mm.  Bugger!  Stupid motorbikes using funky size injectors.

[NZeder]

I also contemplated welding up the holes, but mine are in the throttle bodies themselves, which are a long way upstream, so I'd like to leave the option open to refit the motorbike injectors later on for high rpm tuning.  Welsh plugs is still reversible (with some effort!), but much more secure than the grommets I currently have.  Unfortunately I fall right between two sizes of plug, going to have to get the bigger size and grind down by 1mm.  Bugger!  Stupid motorbikes using funky size injectors.

Well mine were larger too - they are a tight fit for sure.

[NZeder]

Well long time no update not a lot to report really been busy at work - global recession has not hit us yet (however just been to the NZ sales conference and had one of the bean counters from Head Office explain to the sales guys, I was there upgrading their Notebook only time they are all together at one time, how they should be improving the terms of sales so we don't have to have such large delays before goods are paid for....long story short below)

 

Improve Sale payment one option.

Our sales are you purchase X stock for Y $$ you receive Z $$ rebate. This does encourage sales but does not improve the payment terms/delays after the sale. So the beanies have said we should move to the old setup we used to run that is.

 

You purchase X stock for Y $$ and you receive Z % discount when paid within 30-60 days (whatever term you want)

 

Anyway the idea is you get the $$ sooner = you don't have to borrow $$ to cover stocks valve before they are paid for = XXX savings PA on interest.

 

So back to the zed sort of  - on a side note the Targa team I pit crew for here in NZ recently did a weekend Targa with the car (BMW E36 Evo 3.2L = not much work for us pit crew, bleed brakes, check fuilds, clean screen and check tyre terms/remove stones and maybe change the pads if the driver/owner is not happy) and the new 6 speed sequential worked like a charm, once the leaking hydraulic release bearing was fixed only the day before. So were was I that's right we finished 3rd in our class.

 

Ok here is what I have done on the zed before work got busy and the targa.

 

I had this idea of not using the stock tension rods/springs on the bonnet hinges for the following reasons.

1. They were not working that well with my G-Nose hinges and the bonnet would fall down hard as they could not cope anymore

2. I did not want to use them due to number 1 above.

3. see number 2.

4. I wanted a solution that would work and work well.

 

So my idea was to use some gas struts/springs like most modern cars. This would fix my issue and hopefully give me the ability to place the bonnet in any location and have it stay put.

 

Now remember this is for a G-Nose hinge setup. I first took a look at the RX-8 boot struts/springs and they were a good length but after mounting this up it was found they did not have the correct force to hold the bonnet up. So I purchased some BA falcon replacement struts from evilbay for $15 AUD + shipping ie about $50 NZD all up. I mounted these up - again in prototype form ie bolted. Different angles and locations were tried. Some were chosen for easy of installation/removal of the bonnet however these locations put the struts at wrong angle resulting in too much force = pop the bonnet and it would open all the way and was hard to close.

 

So I currently have a setup that allows me to place the bonnet in any location and it holds good and true. Due to different prototype setups I now have a few holes to weld up on the radiator support panel and lower panel. Then I will mount up the brackets once and for all. The only issue is that I have to replace the lower bonnet bolt with a bolt that has a 10mm ball on the end for the strut to connect to = a little more of pain to get the bonnet on and off as this has a 13mm head were as the normal bolt is 12mm.

 

Anyway once all this is complete I will get some pics and post up here.

 

Now also while I was working on the car I took my spare RB25/26 engine combo (future rebuild project or sell of as parts....see how the $$ go) and installed these so I could check clearance etc. My aim was to ensure everything would clear fine.

 

Well I did find an issue - my long long trumpet were fowling on the clutch master cylinder so a new master cylinder was called for. So I check if my short series tilton MC would work.....no the line comes out of the end of the cylinder = too close to the trumpets - might work but will be very very close = might not get aircleaners on. So time to hit the interweb again and look for a suitable MC. I thought I have found one the MC from a Toyota AE86 this was straight up and down MC and the line exited from the right (when looking from the front of the car back at the firewall) so I purchased one of these from the local REPCO only to find out that the line would exit right were the accelerator mounting bracket was (remember I have a 260z 2 seater shell so this is like the 73+ shells and this welded on).....ahhh....should have stuck with the L6 after all......too much $$ to turn back now. So I got hold of a parts manual for the Fairlady Z 432 and took a look at how their setup was around this area.

 

Back to the internet this time looking at pictures of 432 and 432-R engine bays around the linkages and clutch areas. It was then I noticed that some looked to have a different MC one that was shorter. Looking looking researching and more researching resulted it was too hard to located the correct parts and would require firewall mods again ie removal of the welded on accelerator bracket for the bell crank, then I would have to see if the 432 parts were still available from Nissan which might not be a goer anyway (I have yet to check but I will anyway). So I was now back to looking for a clutch master cylinder that was short ie 80mm long on the firewall side without a side exit line connector.

 

So armed with my AE86 clutch cylinder I went and visited a clutch and brake shop, family owned business which have been helpful to others in the past with these type of issues. After the guy when out to the store room and back several times each time bring back something different or odd shaped he finally returned with a dusty box that contained a MC that was the same length as the AE86 unit but it had the line exiting on the top just behind a remote pipe connection for a remote located bottle. The only issue was it was not a straight up and down mounting. I thought who cares I will just make a plate to mount it - it would work and that is what I wanted. So I picked up this unit for $50 dust and all - it again was a Toyota unit and interweb research later told me from what model.

 

So I now have made up a new adaptor plate to mount this new clutch cylinder to the firewall and this will be spot welded on the car the next time the welder hits the body work (this weekend I hope) and I took my 4 year old son with me so he now has a hand in the car as he filed the sharp edges off the new clutch bracket for me.

 

As stated above I will get pics next time I visit the workshop. And maybe in the next week or two I will have news on the rear DIH (Drum in Hat) handbrake setup I have in development (again currently only a one off and if it works I might consider doing a small run if the number are there and others like the idea/design)

[C.A.R.]

Hehehe, it's the fiddly stuff that takes the time to work through...

Stick at it Mike - it'll be awesome when it's done

[Zedman240®]

I've heard a 1600 clutch master will fit; its a bit shorter in length compared to a zed one. If you can get one it may be worth a try.

[NZeder]

I've heard a 1600 clutch master will fit; its a bit shorter in length compared to a zed one. If you can get one it may be worth a try.

I will look into that one - I know the one I found that was the 432 unit looks to be substituted by most after-market suppliers with the zed unit as this is common on a number of Datsun from the 70's. But worth a look.

[Gaijin]

Reading your thread Mike, is as exciting as doing it for real!

 

there's a way to save cash eh...

 

RX8 struts not grunty enough?

Are they what you have passed on to me earlier?

 

Cant remeber what they were off...

 

Great to see thread and project up and away again!