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wirysage

240Z dump or restore

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Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I currently have just finished restoring a 1982 celica 2.0XT liftback and I'm looking for a new project and I've got one the old bloke next door has this 240z under a car cover in a covered carport with uv protecting mesh things around it. He does'nt plan on restoring it because he has'nt got the money. I'd like to know how much I should offer him for it in this condition and if anyone here thinks it's worth restoring it I've got some pics here:

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The space were it's located it's hard to get side on shots but the paint does'nt seem to be bubbeling anywhere. This car was last registered in 1989. Can you guys please give me some pointers where to look and what to look for before under the car before I part with my cash?

Wirysage

 

Photos here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cCiD9WRoEJihmFko2

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Hi and welcome to the forum. It looks to be a complete and very original zed! I'd be looking at the floors and dog leg area of the body for rust. It definitely looks like it needs a complete strip down and resto. I think its worth it! No sunroof is a big plus and looks like all the details are there which makes it a good candidate for a ground up restoration. Is it a 71 model? Without seeing it in person its hard to put a figure on it... But at least 2-3K should be good to start from...Depends if he knows how much they are worth...

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Looks like a early 71 with side vents, fibreglass centre console and hand throttle control. I would guess a chassis number between HS30 00450 and 00900. If it has a matching engine then bingo I would say around $4000-5000 depending on the extent of the rust of course. But the body panels look to only have surface rust the battery tray looks quite bad so it maybe rooted else where. Certainly need full exterior strip with blasting, the interior looks to be in good shape it looks like it will need an engine rebuild etc count on min $20000-$25000 for a basic resto I would think.

 

C

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If you want to know whether he actually has no idea or is just waiting for some tool to come along and offer him some silly money offer him $500 and see what he says, if he goes on about it being classic then start working out costs of repair. No matter where you start you will eventually find the price he is after just don't come across too eager.

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2nd that.. 500 bucks. there's alot of work in it.. and alot of surface rust. heck.. my 260 cost me $600.. with a fresh new respray.  Just cause its a classic.. doesn't mean he has to pay premium price.

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The cost of resto will depend on what is ok and can be restored without replacement (if the parts can still be had new which some can) and how much you can do your self.

 

I know how much $$ I have put into my zed and I still have just a body shell (and my brother is my panel beater - that is why it has taken 10 years for the body work)

 

Areas to check for rust are (as already pointed out + some extra areas - most are obvious places were dirty/grime sit)

 

Floors

Chassis rails

under the battery box

dog legs

lower sections of the front guards

lower sections of the doors

heater chimney (under the dash were the heater chimney meets the firewall)

lower radiator support panel and the sides on the radiator panel were several seams join.

Slam panel under the hatch

hatch hinges (if a very rusty car)

and rear wheel arches, and sometime around the tail lights

 

I think that covers it - so that are the problem areas and some will cost more to fix that others ie the heater chimney can be tricky to do correctly ie dash out, un spot the wiper panel (whatever that area is called) so you can get good access and rebuild/repair with new steel etc

 

So if it only has surface rust then it should be a good purchase but it will still need a good strip and repaint and if you want a job to last then better prep work = time = $$ then better results can be achieved.

 

So how much to offer - if a rusty pile is all those areas above then start at $500 if only surface rust then maybe $1500 and work up from there (you still want a bargain right)

 

I guess the $25000 mentioned above relates to the following.

 

Keeping it all original and rebuilding the original engine (if that is what is under the bonnet) then you could sink $10,000 into the engine if you purchase many new parts and have a pro do the work and pay for chrome, coating ie gold passivating all the correct clips/leads to get close to factory again.

 

If however your aim is to just rebuild then the cost could be different - you see to me restore = $$ ie return to original or as close to original as you can get. Rebuilt = less $ but still have an excellent result if done correctly.

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I also agree with the commend above about the cars vintage I would say a early 71 for first rego and a build date last 3/4 of 70 - and it will be between HS30-00450-1000 for the same reason stated above. It has the early console = A type Box original installed but has the later hatch, rear guards and steering wheel these are obvious non early 70 itmes on this car + I don't think the first cars were available with the blue interior but I could be wrong on that.

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I agree just offer $500 you have nothing to loose but I would think on the open market and if it's not to rusty that car would at a guess get $4000. The blue interior is worth quite a bit on it's own, you have an original radio and an un-cracked ash tray. All these things add up to a lot of $$$ if you have to go out and find them or pay over the top for ebay stuff. For you intrest I have spent far in excess of $25,000 restoring a Z  so I would hope to be in a reasonable position to tell you the costs.

 

Anyway $25,000 would be with other people doing alot of the work but you'll have to do all the leg work to get the parts together its also heavily dependant on how much metal needs replacing. You'll need a lot of new old stock parts if you want it mint? Of course if you want it to look average then just paint the outside, por 15 the engine bay and try to get that old rusty engine to work just don't show anyone under the bonnet :P

 

CB

 

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If I was to drop a newer more modern used 6 cylinder engine in could anyone recommend anything? and possibly inform me of the problems of fitting a different engine to a 240. even thou the engine fits how about linkups and issues with them?

If you guys think I'm new to this your dead right but I know I can learn.

 

Personaly I would stick with the L series engine there really is nothing wrong with them! Just that after 37 years it will need a good refresh. If it's the matching engine and you want more power then overbore the engine to 86mm and fit a L28 crank, pistons and you'll have plenty of power and a matching engine thats added a lot of value to the car.

Sorry if I come over all high and mighty but please if you want to go all ricer then do it to your celicas not a 37 year old classic car :'(

 

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There are few of us who are or have put Nissan RB engine into them - still not a cheap exercise as you have to upgrade the fuel system from carb setup to EFI, then other parts of the drive train etc if you don't want to spend the $$ then pass this up.

 

And I can tell you that I have spent way more than $25000 over the 10 year my project has been going on and my brother does not charge me much as I am family and I still only have a body shell in primer and lots of parts waiting to go into the car. And during this time I have purchased a number of other zeds as I miss having one on the road - and if my car is not finished this year I think I will purchase another one in the future (I have problem....I love S30's) 

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RB25 would be your best bet, but you will end up paying as much if not more than it would cost for a rebuilt L series, you will also severly restrict you market if you ever sell the car.

 

If you buy the car for $500 i'll give you $1000 for it and you've doubled your money in no time ;D

 

CB

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Damn man 10 thousand on just an engine is just too much for me. I can't stand ricers and I don't really care about having more power I'd settle for less. I just need a more modern power plant to get this thing moving it seems like a horrible thing 2 do trying to get that rusty engine to work again without a restore. I'd do everything else as close to stock as possible, I just need all of you to put your ricer allogations aside and help me find a more modern 6 cylinder engine to put in.

 

Yes of course you can fit a more modern motor, but you will drastically devalue this car. This car is very original and looks to be an early car. If you keep it original you will have a car worth a lot more in the long run and as somoene who is a bit of a purist it would be a shame to see this things with a Volvo V6 or equivilent. There are just not that many early 240z's around at all anymore. They are a bit like a golden unicorn, find one and keep it.

 

You could put in another L-series, l24, l26, l28 that is reasonably fresh. The engine may not even be siezed if you are lucky, although looking at it, I'd be surprised if you could get it running without damaging the bores.

 

If you are going to drive this car daily I would consider an RB25, but honestly the cost involved with engineering and other madness, you will be no better off. You could rebuild and refresh this L24 motor quite easily if you are familiar with the cars. I wouldn't say it would cost you 10K. I would guess about 4-5k for a quality engine rebuild.

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If you want the car offer the bloke $500 to take it off his hands. Then go up from there.... Worry about what needs to be spent later as long as you get the car cheap.

 

EDIT: Whoops been said a few time already  ::)

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Don't try and rip the old guy off. It's probably his pension fund ;D

 

Being an early car and in the condition its in, he could probably get 1.5 to 3 grand for it if he were to advertise it.

 

 

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Don't try and rip the old guy off. It's probably his pension fund ;D

 

Being an early car and in the condition its in, he could probably get 1.5 to 3 grand for it if he were to advertise it.

 

I got no sympathy for him, hes let that poor car rust out under a tarp for the past 20 years. If you can get it for $500 go for it, every car restorer loves to think they can still get a bargain :).

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Don't try and rip the old guy off. It's probably his pension fund ;D

 

Being an early car and in the condition its in, he could probably get 1.5 to 3 grand for it if he were to advertise it.

 

 

 

Are you kidding me?? Or are you his grandson hoping to get a bigger inheritance hahaha  :P

 

Mate it shits me to tears at the moment how many people are trying to cash in on cars they previously would have had to pay someone to remove from there property. There is a guy on ebay trying to sell an XB coupe pile of rust for a few grand, as I said trying as it's been on their for a few months and not one bid that I have ever seen, the best one I ever saw was a left quarter section from an early Monaro that couldn't be used it was that rusty but he was asking $5000 for it.

 

This car has sat their most likely because he might have needed parts from it at some stage for his tractor, if people were serious about getting good dollars for there old cars they would have garaged them long ago and kept them as rust free as possible.

 

Just offer him $500 tell him that you might turn it into a demo derby or dirt rally car and that's why you don't want to spend too much money. ;)

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Hey mate, Just thought id throw my 2c in aswell :P

Like most people have said, The L Series are an Extreamly tough engine, And theres no real need to replace it, I mean, I have a Mildly worked L28 And i have fun beating the odd v8 commodore down the road hehe ^^

 

just remember the 240z's only weigh about 1000kg so you really dont need a massive amount of power to get them moving

 

- Michael

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blue interior is very unsuall , it appears the rust is  only surface and has settled on top of everything not underneath , whats the hesitation for about purchasing it , looks fantastic to me , remember the less rust the lower the resto cost the fact is its a genuine unmolested car 5k  is not an unresonable price to pay, so if you have to think about it maybe you cant afford it in the fist place, just go for it you cant loose

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Just another detail if you do decide to buy this car and do an engine swap...One good piece of advice is to keep the original L24 if you have the room, install an RB25 but with carbs instead of EFI. I built my own manifold for the RB25 to fit 3 Weber style throttle bodies but can easily fit 3 Weber or Dellorto and Mikuni carbies. You just need to add a MSD ignition system to run the spark side of things. The manifold cost around $300; cheaper than a store bought one! (can't really buy these anyway). By keeping the L24, if you ever decide to sell the car, replace the engine and then you can sell a "matching numbers" car for more $$$. I'm sure if you don't want to buy this zed, many others here would love to get this car!! (myself included!!  ;D)

 

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Are you kidding me?? Or are you his grandson hoping to get a bigger inheritance hahaha  :P

 

Mate it shits me to tears at the moment how many people are trying to cash in on cars they previously would have had to pay someone to remove from there property. There is a guy on ebay trying to sell an XB coupe pile of rust for a few grand, as I said trying as it's been on their for a few months and not one bid that I have ever seen, the best one I ever saw was a left quarter section from an early Monaro that couldn't be used it was that rusty but he was asking $5000 for it.

 

This car has sat their most likely because he might have needed parts from it at some stage for his tractor, if people were serious about getting good dollars for there old cars they would have garaged them long ago and kept them as rust free as possible.

 

Just offer him $500 tell him that you might turn it into a demo derby or dirt rally car and that's why you don't want to spend too much money. ;)

 

Previously, what like in 1990?  Times change, inflation, cars get rarer, more people are wanting them. It's just the way it is. Supply and demand.  I recently saw a HG Monaro sell for 45 grand, and no its wasn't a genuine V8 just a 6 cyl GTS that has has a V8 transplant. Needed a complete repaint and hadn't turned the engine over in years. I remember when you could buy an XB GT coupe for around $12,000. Now everyone wants $45 grand. You get people thinking "I remember how much they used to sell for 15 years ago, so i'm not gonna pay todays values".  Yeah, years ago you could pick up an old in need of restoration, Datsun or Ford or whatever for $500, but its 2008, not 1988.

 

A couple of grand for a rare-ish car that needs a full rebuild in this day and age isn't too much to ask. 

 

If you can get it for $500 good luck to you. You could probably slap it straight on ebay and get 4 grand for it and go looking for one in better condition.

 

If you keep it original and restore it, it will be worth more than if you do an engine swap, mods, etc. It's just the way it is with classic cars. It's like finding a GT-HO phase three and stripping it, throwing out the engine and replacing it with a new V8, new seats, etc.....just on a smaller scale.

 

What shits me is people trying to cash in on house prices, old houses that haven't been renovated since they were built are worth three, maybe four times what they were worth when they were built.  Previously they were only worth 350 grand, now people are trying to get half a mil for them.  ;D

 

 

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Just another detail if you do decide to buy this car and do an engine swap...One good piece of advice is to keep the original L24 if you have the room, install an RB25 but with carbs instead of EFI. I built my own manifold for the RB25 to fit 3 Weber style throttle bodies but can easily fit 3 Weber or Dellorto and Mikuni carbies. You just need to add a MSD ignition system to run the spark side of things. The manifold cost around $300; cheaper than a store bought one! (can't really buy these anyway). By keeping the L24, if you ever decide to sell the car, replace the engine and then you can sell a "matching numbers" car for more $$$. I'm sure if you don't want to buy this zed, many others here would love to get this car!! (myself included!!  ;D)

 

carbs make the later engine sway easier and if I did not have the EFI ECU, Throttle bodies (was going to use these on my L30 engine when I build that) this would be a simple RB25DE install with a custom manifold like Zedman240 has made. Never know might just install carbs on my RB to begin with so I am getting low on the coin and carbs will be easier to install no fuel system mods, ie surge tank, wiring changes (reads EFI wiring), dyno time to get the ECU turned correctly (I know I should do the dyno for the Carbs too but I have had 2 zeds with triples carbs in the parts and my turning was not to bad vs the dyno turning).....hmm might have to think about that one when I get the body back.

 

Back to topic at hand - good on you for going for it - I think if the car only has the superficial surface rust then upto $5000 sounds like a good purchase - not sure about the oz market as I have not lived there for 5 years now but a car like that would be $8,000 here in NZ if the rego was on hold (we can put the registration on hold while we restore/rebuild our cars or not use them on the road for a period of time, mine has been like that for 10 years - and if I did no engine/brake/suspension mods it is just a matter of one check and paper work to get it back on the road. Now as I have modified lots - now I have to cert all the mods as things have changed since I took the car off the road :( )

 

Anyway I think from the photo's seen so far it should be a good purchase long term. The blue interior is not common and for an early car (under HS30-01000 which by look it is) let along a standard 240z - I think the blue was only available with white on the outside much like the red interior (also rare)

 

Keep us updated on the potential project :) and don't give up - infact visit one of the meetings that guys arrange and see if someone can take you for a drive in there 240z with a mild L28 to 1. So you know what they are like while you are working on this project, 2. Know what the good old and strong L6 is like (I am sure I will miss the L6 and the RB will be different better? who know different yes - I would also talk to BenZed on this site has he build a toyota 6 cylinder powered 240z but now has a modified L28 so he can give his views on different engines. But I can tell you that the L28 power race cars that I have either owned, driven or been driven in you can get a lot of old school power from these engines. My last 240z was powered by a L28 bore and stroked (using the LD28 crank) to almost 3200cc and it made 230HP at the wheels on pump gas with 10.5:1 and a lot more on race gas with my other head and 13:1 - all NA no turbo's involved at all. Hell I am sure there are guys here that have put a turbo on the L28 and can tell you the power you can get from these too - 450+ (I recall a very worked engine in Japan, drag car, making 1000HP out of a turbo'ed L28)

 

Anyway enough from me. Back to you let us know how you discussion go with the current owner lets hope it does at least get into someone (maybe yours) hands who will return it to the road - another zed back on the road has to be a good thing :) 

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