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VintageNissanEnthusiast

Rust Proofing

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Hey everyone. 

So I found out when I purchased the Z that it hadn't been rust treated after its build (5 or something years ago) Now we've has it on the hoist and found a tiny bit at the front (nothing of any concern really) but it has highlighted the importance to get the whole car treated. 

Question 1: How long/ how difficult a job is this to DIY. (Note I am a complete novice with no shed/ garage to store the car in) 

 

Question 2: What is the rough cost/ time taken for a body shop (if this is the right place to get it done) to do said job. 

Thanks! 

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With the rather large sums of money spent on getting your pride and joy restored, I wonder why rust proofing isn't high on the priority list.

 

Was watching some doco recently on car production and part of the rust proofing process was submerging the whole shell into a very large bath(not sure what was in it)

This allowed every nook and cranny to be rust proofed properly.

 

Be good if there was a business out there that did this sort of thing for the restoration community.

Or maybe someone here knows of a place like this.

 

Will follow this thread with interest :)

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Cheers road rider. I will keep this thread updated with what I come across. I have no idea why the previous owner did not do it, the car was only intended to be used in tarmac rally/ hillclimbs and was garaged indoors. 

Either way it is something I plan on getting done sooner rather than later, have noticed a very small bit at the front of the car. 

 

 

Note * After checking the restoration dates it was about almost 10 years ago! 


 

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I am no expert but - I will be using wax that is in a spray can developed for the inside of chassis rails and in body panels - I have seen for sale at the Body Shop - Spray Painting supplies store - you can also use fish oil as well.

 

This will be done after the whole car is painted KBS rust sealed inside and out in my case.

 

I would imagine every five years or so you may need to repeat the wax spray - if the car is seeing regular out side use.

 

Any catchment areas and all the seams are areas that will need particular attention.

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There are various options out there.

 

Zierbart coatings.

Por-15.

KBS rust seal.

Cavity Waxes etc..

 

In many cases these are applied by a using a tool that allows you to paint in hard to reach areas.

 

Eastwood's offers kits like these:

http://search.eastwood.com/auto/Rust%20Proofing%20Wand

 

Where you get a wand to spray into hard to reach areas etc..

 

I've seen some examples where holes are drilled into sill panels, rockers etc.. So that a spray can be applied, obviously I'd rather not drill unnecessary holes if not required.

 

My approach on my car will be to rust proof areas I have access to when doing rust repairs and make sure surfaces like inside of panels that were not adequately prepped at the factory back in the day have etch primer with some kind of rust proof paint over the top.

 

Once the car is fully painted I'll look at wax coatings applied to common problem areas for S30z's, but I plan to keep my cars garaged anyway (so many benefits to this I won't even start).

 

I would honestly not plan to keep a 45 year old S30z out in the elements if you can avoid it for too long, even if it means renting a garage to store it in. In Australia you also have to worry about hail damage which is almost impossible to predict..

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Second Gav's comment about not keeping an old Z outside, there are so many things that will deteriorate besides the metal. Anyway, rustproofing is only as good as the person doing it and the effort they will put into it. Boxed in areas like the sills have to be done which may require holes for access, areas like the quarter panels and up inside the front guards, it's a big job done properly. I've DIY'd a couple, messy job using fish oil which runs everywhere but all S30's should be done. Hands up those here who have :)

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All makes sense. Again I am not sure why the previous owner didn't do it when repainting. 

Essentially the car is under a carport under a cover as I am mid looking for a new place to live (one that has a garage/ underground parking essential) 

As I want it done right thats why I was a little concerned doing it myself, that I may not do the best/ effective job with my very limited knowledge, and also don't have a garage to store it in whilst I complete this process. 

I will be giving a call around to some panel shops/ finding business that do quality restorations. 

I have been quoted 2-3K for a complete job on it by friends father who has a shop. Not looking at skimping out but it seemed a little.... excessive...


Will continue looking around as he isn't free for the next month. 

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Ok so have contact 3 restoration/ panel shops so far. Both the first and second seemed to confirm our discussion here but a big difference in price? 

Place 1 - PJ's Panels
Quoted maximum 1k - 1.5k. Described the process of stripping panel, drilling holes in inner sills using fish oil and cavity wax. Would need to get in contact with them in a couple of weeks to see if they have space. 

Place 2 - Hayes Garage

Quoted around $600 plus materials cost (would take a full days work) Mentioned the same as before and inner doors, getting into the cavities using a product called Lanotec which is a combination of fish oil and Lanolin, cleaning and drying out the sills. 

Place 3 - JC classic car restorations 
Mentioned doors and quarters acid treatment that I should bring the car in for them to look at to get a quote. 


 

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What product is used probably doesn't have much bearing on your decision. So long as they squirt some form of fish oil / wax / etc into cavities it will be OK (my preferred mix is 50:50 fish oil and tectyl lrust proofing).

 

It is a time consuming job as to do it right involves removing a large amount of interior trim (sill coverings / door trims / etc) , applying rust proofing, then carefully replacing all trims. To do it properly would also involve removing panels,for instance to do the inner guards / rails along top of inner guards and plenty of other areas.

 

Difference in prices quoted may just mean one is more thorough than the other. Do they specifically have knowledge of zeds and where they rust ? Or is it just a generic doors'n;sills type job? I'd be asking what they intend to remove and exactly where they intend to rustproof.

 

 I did my brother's 260Z after I painted it, we rustproofed everything while it was apart (it was a whole weekend job, quite messy, and it dripped rustproofing for a long while afterwards), then re-assemble guaurds / doors / tailgate / trim / etc back onto the car.

Edited by 1600dave

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Yep it might seem expensive, but consider if removing the front end panels, the time involved in re-alignment of said panels and the risk of paint chips etc.. A broken or rusted in bolt could also put a snag in the works.

 

This is the kind of job you could do yourself, but it would require a whole lot of time and some patience.

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It can definately be a DIY job but you need the right equipment, a place to do it and an understanding of the Z body structure to be able to do it properly. And it's a waste of time if it's not done properly.

 

If it's best for you to get it done by a pro then ask them specific questions as to how they will do the job eg will the door trims be removed or will they just use holes for access? It's all about the time taken, one of those jobs where the integrity and skill of the applicator is everything.

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For me its not really something I am not willing to be cheap on...I would never have purchased a Z if I wanted to save money!

Both mentioned taking off the panels and door cards. Getting into the cavities, drilling holes in the sills, going through the inside. 

I'd be more concerned if it is a two day job, rather than just one day? 

Unfortunately I didn't ask if they were aware of common rust places on z's, as I didn't even think of it myself!

 

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.

 

I would honestly not plan to keep a 45 year old S30z out in the elements if you can avoid it for too long, even if it means renting a garage to store it in. In Australia you also have to worry about hail damage which is almost impossible to predict..

absolutely true but even having it in the garage won't be enough to stop rust. This summer in Sydneywas really wet and you could feel how moisture laden the air was (100% humidity!). I remember one day sifting thru junk in my garage and finding rust forming on some old metal parts and made me realise if I ever do get a Z (when I win Powerball) it will have to be treated properly against rust.

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absolutely true but even having it in the garage won't be enough to stop rust. This summer in Sydneywas really wet and you could feel how moisture laden the air was (100% humidity!). I remember one day sifting thru junk in my garage and finding rust forming on some old metal parts and made me realise if I ever do get a Z (when I win Powerball) it will have to be treated properly against rust.

I have a dehumidifier for the garage I keep the Z in. It makes an amazing difference to how "dry" everything is in that garage compared to other areas. It is a Delonghi unit and I have fitted an external drain to it. Highly recomended

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I have a dehumidifier for the garage I keep the Z in. It makes an amazing difference to how "dry" everything is in that garage compared to other areas. It is a Delonghi unit and I have fitted an external drain to it. Highly recomended

do you keep it on 24/7?

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Hi

 

No, I only run it when the climate gets a bit damp (has been on for the last week though)

 

Makes a massive difference

 

Cheers

PB

post-102365-0-90652200-1460169850_thumb.jpeg

Edited by PB260Z

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There are various options out there.

 

Zierbart coatings.

Por-15.

KBS rust seal.

Cavity Waxes etc..

 

......

 

I am looking to prepare to get the materials to attend to the key surface rust areas of the soon to be purchased 260z and have read a lot of forum posts on rust.

 

I was wondering if anyone has a preference for either Por-15 or  KBS Rust Seal and what the reasons maybe?

 

It appears that both their pre seal treatments use zinc phosphate so I presume no real difference in these?

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I've used both (POR-15 on the Datsun, KBS on my car trailer) and I couldn't tell the difference. 

 

I'll be using KBS in future simply because they are an Australian company.

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I've used both (POR-15 on the Datsun, KBS on my car trailer) and I couldn't tell the difference. 

 

I'll be using KBS in future simply because they are an Australian company.

 

Yep, to be honest I don't think either POR-15 or KBS has a magic formula here. At the end of the day the coating just has to seal the metal to prevent oxidation and the benefit of these types of coatings is that they are quite durable once applied so hard to chip or flake off. As a result they help prevent the surface from being exposed to the elements and therefore rusting.

 

I also like the idea of supporting an Australian based company and product.

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KBS is all in the prep. The degreaser, then the acid etch phosphate stage before the actual paint goes on. The paint apparently cures only when subject to moisture which it draws out of the panel and dehydrates the metal.

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They sound very similar to me. I have only used POR15, it's great but don't leave it exposed to UV for too long as it can not handle it at all.

 

KBS is all in the prep. The degreaser, then the acid etch phosphate stage before the actual paint goes on. The paint apparently cures only when subject to moisture which it draws out of the panel and dehydrates the metal.

 

Surely the moisture would be drawn from the atmosphere and not the sheet metal?

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I have had several interesting conversations regarding the POR-15 and KBS products over the last few months. These have been accompanied with research and some tests.

Basically I have come to the conclusion that,

 

-Surface prep is everything. If it's not clean, clean and if you don't follow the three step process the product won't stick

 

-Temperature is very important. To cold or hot and the product won't adhere properly and tends to dry differently and is then subject to peeling off in sheets

 

-it's a great product when used properly and on items that are (don't know how to discribed this) parts or solid and can be coated in their entirety

 

-it is also very effective on small parts or sections of the shell that have rust and can be contained or sectioned off

 

-only use either the (with POR products) POR Tie coat primer or the U-POL Acid 8 etch primer

 

The problem I have been wrestling with is the use of these type of products on large sections of the shell. The use of water during two of the processes over larger areas allows water (particularly during the wash down phase) to possibly migrate into cavities and joins. This is hard to control. Given that the cleaning process removes all of the oils and waxes that have been helping to protect areas, these cars had very (none) undercoat and the second process uses a chemical reaction to basically induce a controled rust for the next coat to bond onto I have concernes about rust control after the event. So my plan is to continue to use the products in small areas of existing rust that the removal of the section is not warranted or possible and the use of water is minimised. A recent conversation with a panel repairer and a coach builder have strengthened my feeling on this position. It is apparent that the entire section that it prepped needs to be covered with the bonding coat, both sides as this is the only way to stop the process that has been started and seal the metal.

Comments? Thoughts?

 

Jeff

Edited by CBR Jeff

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I very carefully followed the instructions to the letter. I did the entire underside of the car with POR-15 after stripping back to bare metal, as well as the inside floorpan, inside windscreen plenum area, and a few other random spots. I did as suggested in the instructions and sprayed a mist coat of primer (non-POR-15 brand) onto the POR-15 while it was still slightly tacky.

 

I also hit the areas concerned with a hair drier after the last application of water and before POR-15 application to dry any water off.

 

The shell is still on the rotisserie but seems to have no POR-15 "bonding" issues to the shell, or next coats to POR-15. Where I painted a few coats onto the rotisserie just to use up any leftover POR-15, it has peeled off between application of POR-15. That was with no prep and a ime period of weeks / months between applications between the coats, and no prep of the original metal. The first coat is still soundly attached to the RHS of the rotisserie, but further coats just peel off whenever I bump them.

 

I think I mentioned above, I probably won't use it again on cars and will go for epoxy primer on future restorations.

Edited by 1600dave

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