TomC18 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Love the grip around southern loop - must have got some heat in those old slicks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Just to show you aero , defuses wings and slicks, you can still come unstuck. As always pushing the car for the magic lap requires exploring the limits of grip. I've been over Lukey Heights many times with a four wheel drift, but this time I think I entered the turn in point a little to fast, so I was also missing my apex mark buy a good metre, the tail twitched I caught it but it flicked back again and I was gone. As Casey Stone would say. My ambition far out weighed my Talent. Any way ,better to have tried , than not having a go. Ponyo240z, 260DET, zed74 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter mc Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Got to say well done mate best lap in a z with a L motor ever at the island. 146.4 Gordo and zed74 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Nice work Gordo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Bit f late braking after turn in there! Good thing it wasn't in a field of race cars, the flaggie looked a bit asleep! Gordo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC18 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Sorry Peter Mc. My old Z did a 1.46.0 when still on crossplies and stuck behind v8s through the corners. But Gordo will get quicker still because the tracks faster now. Should be a good year for Zeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Bit f late braking after turn in there! Good thing it wasn't in a field of race cars, the flaggie looked a bit asleep! That's the thing about sprints Jason, you have more opportunities to try different things and push the car harder than when racing when you always have to be watching the competition, taking tight lines and so on. Gordo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter mc Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Tom on natsoft your time says 146.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC18 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I stand to be corrected, i was working off my own timing logs, but that can be from different track points... or operator error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Hi guys. There are a few of us zed owners that have lapped PI in the 1.46s. We are all very close in times and it would seem now that with around 300hp from the L28 and triple carbys it's going to be hard shave much more time off that. Ash Maclurkin, Tom Cantwell and myself are all only tenths apart. With my aero mods top speed is down. In the red car I would pull 6600rpm in 5th down the straight with a 4.1 diff and 260z gearbox. Lap time 1.49s Then I added the wing and lost 300rpm. But was faster with 1.47.8 Then put the same engine and gearbox in the new white zed, 4.1 diff and found it hard to get down to 1.48s. And was only pulling 6200rpm down the straight. Then went for a flat bottom and rear defuser. This gave me 6000rpm down the straight and I went into the 1.47s And only the other weekend went into the 1.46.4s with very good conditions and new rubber. So the extra down force is making me slower down the straights, and faster on the corners. And all the add ons has added 40gk. The white car is 150mm wider, with the flailed guards and has a bigger frontal area, more drag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC18 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Odd, a flat bottom and rear diffuser should decrease drag so increase revs Did you work out speeds based on tyre diameter? Also looks like you have heaps of rake on the white car, maybe a little much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Gordo I have to pose this regardless how stupid it may sound. 2 noticeable factors in a standard Zed are #1 We all know that the faster we go in a (STANDARD) Z the lighter the front gets. Its the front not the rear that needs down force more so. #2 We have all also experienced the wafting smell from exhaust fumes making their way into the cabin due in most to the vacuum effect of the cars rear end You are creating down force with the aero mods you have devised, granted, you are also creating more down force and vacuum at the rear with the raised air foil on the rear, which then exponentially creates more drag. The addition of wings on an F1 car in most instances has both a positive and negative effect on performance, hence the need to come up with fluid forms to usher that air flow so as to create both down force and flow maximisation. F1 engineers spend an unbelievable amount of time developing them to get the best possible balance. Have you thought of trying a lap with the rear air foil off? As i said, may sound stupid, but may find it actually improves top end and front end handling in particular. John Gordo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Your spot on John. That's my next mission, to take the rear wing off and experience the difference . Sirpent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tom. The speed calculated at 6600rpm with the 4.1 diff was 240kph. So now at 6000rpm I'm slower into turn one , not braking as much, but of cause the car is more stable. Where as with out the wing the red zed was very unstable and loose in turn one. Sirpent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Also remember the frontal area is bigger on the white zed. Sirpent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tom. The speed calculated at 6600rpm with the 4.1 diff was 240kph. So now at 6000rpm I'm slower into turn one , not braking as much, but of cause the car is more stable. Where as with out the wing the red zed was very unstable and loose in turn one. Also remember the frontal area is bigger on the white zed. Think you have nailed your problem Gordo You are countering the increased frontal downforce with increased rear downforce through the wing. Anything cutting through air will cause drag, thus my stupid thinking that the wing may now be nothing but an anchor on the new car. Look at the new generation of super cars, Porsche have gone from whale tail 911's to hydraulic air brake set ups, as have Veyrons. Ferrari's F40 rear wings would never appear again on a 2016 model, nor would Lambo's carry the Countach "S" T wings of the 1980's And this next point may stir up even more contraversy but ever wondered why Cosworth created the roof spoilers on the 3 door RS Sierra's? there was method in their madness (even though it would look stupid on a Zed) it created downforce further forward on the car rather than at the tails extreme, bit like a fulcrum effect on the cars center of gravity. Food for thought ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter mc Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The big thing you feel with the rear wing is under brakes how stable the car feels this realy helps you get on the gas very early. .i have a solution more hp Gordon Gordo and Sirpent 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yes John, points taken and noted. But it's all about car balance and knowing what small changes effects the cars balance. All my testing is based on the PI track. Turn one with out the rear wing, tail is loose and very unstable , hence a slower speed is needed. Turn two , tail is loose. Up through hay shed dog leg, have to lift off or won't make the corner , same with Lukey Hights and coming onto the main straight. So with out that wing , I have to back off or I get tail slides. Front spoiler, splitter. With out this I get chronic under steer on every corner, no question . So entry and exit is slower. So to balance the car you need big wings spoilers both ends . Or small wings spoilers . Take them all off and it's still balanced but sliding every where. So it's all about balance. The zed needs more front end grip. Once you have that you can give more to the rear. It's just a trade off. If you need more , you just go bigger. So summing up, if I take some wing off it will be faster in a straight line, but I'll loose all my mid corner speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 .i have a solution more hp Gordon Love it Pete, Like love, HP conqors all ! Gordo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter mc Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Ls3 400 kw is what the doc prescribes Sirpent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) So summing up, if I take some wing off it will be faster in a straight line, but I'll loose all my mid corner speed. Think we all realise this is a major balancing act, and it will all come down to how you fine tune the balance with what you have Gordo. Just a shame we cant put a modern speed/brake activated setup on the back of the car I'm sure you will find that happy compromise and extract the best out of the car as you have done so far ;-) Edited February 16, 2016 by Sirpent Gordo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Ls3 400 kw is what the doc prescribes You are my hero Ferris Peter Bueller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmd Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Gordon, Do you have data logging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 No I don't Have any data. Its all old school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Got any idea at what speed the current wing starts working Gordo? Some start from as low as 80kph but of course downforce increases with speed, I was wondering if the spin at Lukey was induced by the current wing loosing downforce there. If practical one option to reduce drag would be to shorten the current wing, there is also the option to fit a bob tail spoiler in conjunction with a wing like I've done with mine. Easy enough to experiment with it on and off. Same with a twin element wing, remove the small element. Facinating stuff aero. Edited February 16, 2016 by 260DET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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