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72 240Z Historic Group S

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that's pretty quick, What about the 280Z?

 

my car's at the mercy of go-slow motors... have 2 engines coming along, a high revving 2litre for Sb and a monster for the Group T car, it's really sh##ting me.... I was trying to find a spare engine for a shake down run while i wait, but not too many keen donors

Tom, the 280 Z has done 1.54.9 so pretty close to Pete's record.

Managed ( just!) over the years, 4th, a 5th and a 6th outright.

Not too shabby for an old fat vision imaired bloke, in a heavy car.

 

Because of the Group S "carry forward" thing, or whatever it s, all the Datsun Z cars are consdered as the same.

Ie the 280 is not in the same sub-category as the Porsches, but in the same sub class as 240/260Z.

Thats just a Group S Assciation thing, been setup like that for years.

 

At present, my car holds the Group S sub class lap record for all three Queensland circuits, and, as above, is just 0.8 of a second off the PI record, and, when I ran it at Winton Long, in 2012, it was 0.4 off that record.

 

In the right ( younger, bolder, capable) hands, it could quite easily go faster!

James Flett, is though, without doubt, king of the kids!

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Because of the Group S "carry forward" thing, or whatever it s, all the Datsun Z cars are consdered as the same.

Ie the 280 is not in the same sub-category as the Porsches, but in the same sub class as 240/260Z.

Thats just a Group S Assciation thing, been setup like that for years.

 

I think you are more than a touch confused here. The 280Z is in group S is because it was produced between 1975-1978 280Z car made in 78 can be eligible because the model start in 1975. That is CAMS Sc category. (no carry forward thing from 240/260z).

 

The GSRA (Group S Racing Association) further sub-divide the class Sc into capacity subclass (see http://www.groupsracing.org.au/championship.html)

 

Sca up to 2000cc, Scb 2001cc to 2600cc, Scc 2601cc to 3500cc, Scd over 3501cc

 

 

So the 280Z IS IN the same sub-class Scc as the Porsche Carrera 2.7 and Porsche Carrera 3, Marcos 3L, BMW CS 3L, Ferrari 308.

Edited by hmd

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errors?

 

Look at Wayne Potts 280Z car last year, have all been classified in Scc.

Edited by hmd

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All the Datsun Z models are all in the same sub class within Sc.

 

Very similar also occurs in Historic Group N

 

What the Group S Association do NOT want to allw, is that a Datsun 240Z, which we all knw were produced, and started being commercially sold, in 1969, accepted into Group Sb

Which s for cars manufactured up until December 1969

 

Due to the mdel "carry on" rules, the 260Z amd the 280Z wouod likewaise be placed into Group Sb, and not group Sc.

 

With all this persnicketiness bullsh1t that goes on behing the scenes, it makes the freedoms f Historic Group T Sports Cars a lt more fun

 

Nw, watch ths space,,,,,

All f a sudden, the Group S Association will RE-WRITE their rules,,,,,,, yet once again!

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All the Datsun Z models are all in the same sub class within Sc.

 

Very similar also occurs in Historic Group N

 

What the Group S Association do NOT want to allw, is that a Datsun 240Z, which we all knw were produced, and started being commercially sold, in 1969, accepted into Group Sb

Which s for cars manufactured up until December 1969

 

Due to the mdel "carry on" rules, the 260Z amd the 280Z wouod likewaise be placed into Group Sb, and not group Sc.

 

With all this persnicketiness bullsh1t that goes on behing the scenes, it makes the freedoms f Historic Group T Sports Cars a lt more fun

 

Nw, watch ths space,,,,,

All f a sudden, the Group S Association will RE-WRITE their rules,,,,,,, yet once again!

 

Jason,

 

Get your facts right.

 

1) The sub class are a group S Racing association thing AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN BASED ON CAPACITY within Sa, Sb, Sc.

AND Yes it is their rule and they can re-write it, in fact it has been changed in Sb before adding sub-classes and moving sub-classes.

Bottom line whatever the change they make the 280Z due to its capacity will be in in the same sub-class as the Carrera 2.7 or HIGHER.

 

2) The 'run on' (not carry on) CAMS rules are for the same model car that started on or before 1977. As I said the 280Z started production in 75 that's why its applicable, not because of the 240z or 260z whatsoever. Using your flawed logic you can run the 1989 Porsche Carrera 3.2 in group S. I'll give you an example of the Alfa Alfetta GTV the accepted year is up to 1981, in 1982 the model had a facelift (plastic bumper) same engine etc.. and these do not qualify. The 280Z has a 2.8 with EFI, it's is in CAMS view a distinctly different model to the 260Z as the 260Z is different to the 240Z.

 

3) There is a dispute to whether the 240Z and the 1969 Fairlady are different models, I wished I own a 1969 Fairlady and try to log that as an Sb and stick it up to CAMS.

 

Anyway please start 'I hate group S association and CAMS' thread. This is a car Journal.

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Hung, after a long conversation, many years ago, with Colin Wilson Brown, where he explained all Dato Z's are in SCb, because the bodyshell was unchanged, as t applied under GSRA.

The 2.7/3.0 Porsche's were a new body,

Same with Alfas,

The Dato Z carried the same body from end 69 to 78, hence Colin placing all the Z's in the Scb category

Save for the 2x200cc engine capacity increase, and the change from two carbs to single body injection, the Z, mechanically remained unchanged, thats the basic reason.

 

It's nt as ff we are geing over-run with Z's in Group S, and certainly not many 280Z's, but without the pissibility and encouragement to other potential new Z cars, including the slightly mre mdern version,, it just becomes Group Porsche.

 

 

Re the 1969 built 240Z mdel, we know they were being sold in December 69, but were not sold into the US and Australia until 1970

CAMS needs the GSRA to accept that they were sold in Japan, but this need written evidentiary proof, which s not available from Nssan

Even if it was the L20A six cylinder, the mdel run on would then have all Dato Z's in group Sb.

 

Cant have that now, can we!

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Hung, after a long conversation, many years ago, with Colin Wilson Brown, where he explained all Dato Z's are in SCb, because the bodyshell was unchanged, as t applied under GSRA.

The 2.7/3.0 Porsche's were a new body,

Same with Alfas,

The Dato Z carried the same body from end 69 to 78, hence Colin placing all the Z's in the Scb category

 

Jason,

 

You really need to read the CAMS regs, it's not about the body, it's the model.

The Carrera 3 has the same body and engine as the 1978-1983 911 SC but these are not eligible as they are deemed different model.

 

You know more about cars and probably racing than I will ever do but the rules are very clear.

 

Same with the GSRA sub-class read the rule it's very clear it's based on capacity.

 

AGAIN please start another thread.

Edited by hmd

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A lap against a Renault Megan RS.

 

Modern turbo 4wd with 235/40/18 tyres vs Classic L series and 19560/14 tyres.

 

Edited by hmd

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Don't know how long I am going to keep racing, last 18 months I have had 3 incidents (with panel damage) from other drivers doing silly things

 

 

This is the damage after I have pried it out because the lower guard was touching the tyre.

IMG_6125.JPG

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WOW! What the hell was he thinking. I was having a chat to someone who races in the sports tourers the other day, and there are soooo many people with absolutely no brains on the track!

Not that it makes it any better for you, but did he get penalised or fined at all for that?

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Just buy a 911, it's a licence to hit into people apparently. :)

@zr240 had his race car destroyed by an idiot in a 944. Seems to be a common theme. Perhaps more money than sense?

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Wow! That could have been a lot worse. Nice driving Hung.

did you “Chat” with the Porsche driver after the session?

i hope he apologised at the least.

 

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14 seconds in is when you see the clear indicator lens I donated to Hung make a run for it. He sent me the video to tell me the part was defective lol... Good thing it was already cracked/damaged (hence why it was donated for free).. would have been a heart breaker if it was a new 1.

I have a pair of amber ones (US style ones) if you get desperate Hung, but there is reproductions out there now and they are not "too expensive".

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1 hour ago, Cozza said:

Wow! That could have been a lot worse. Nice driving Hung.

did you “Chat” with the Porsche driver after the session?

i hope he apologised at the least.

 

He did come and apologise and we are all good.

I am just having a bit of a racing low.... sometimes you wonder why you are racing ...

@Lurch and I had a conversation about a 'refresh' for my car. Then he came to Philip Island historic 2017 and saw me got hit by an Alfa and wisely advise me against doing any refresh 

Here's that clip

 

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Same spot :(>:(

I can see why you're getting frustrated with it. I assume you will eventually do a refresh if you one day do stop this form of racing?

 

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Have you considered a flashing Amber light fitted to the bonnet to let them know your coming through, Hung?

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Bad things come in groups of three? Best way to look at it, there is no reason to think that this run of bad luck will continue.............. Is there?

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