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What devalues a zed?

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A bit of overlap below, but what I think and see is...

 

1. Non originality.

2. Previous owners and botched repairs.

3. Poor bodywork and poor body repairs. (bog rockets)

4. Engine swaps away from the L-Banger. Yes I went there...

5. Non original / or non period correct colours and hues.

6. Lack of attention to detail with restoration. I see this a lot, skimp on the small stuff etc..

7. Trying to make them into something they're not, which encompasses horrid body kits and aftermarket accessories.

8. Interior re-trim kits that don't retain the original look.

9. Sunroofs - those bloody big holes in the roof tin.

 

Adding flares to a 260z 2 seater? I don't know if 260z's are quite at the same desirability as 240z's in terms of collector value. I think a lot of people still want the 2 seater with ZG look with a front spoiler, 432-R rear wing, big rota's and a turbo straight 6. The kind of person who wants an early S30z (I would includes myself in this category) goes for a car that is as original looking at possible. Where as the later 260z crowd is more likely to be the "into stance", "big turbo's" demographic and therefore probably likes the flared look etc..

 

No doubt I managed to offend someone here....

 

Couldn't agree more. Recently restored my 240 close to factory spec and insurer valued it at $40k+. Matching numbers/originality  are vital for most discerning buyers. Cannot understand in modifying a 240 to the extent that it is essentially 240Z panels. If you find one of the best engines ever made boring , buy a Skyline.

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Couldn't agree more. Recently restored my 240 close to factory spec and insurer valued it at $40k+. Matching numbers/originality  are vital for most discerning buyers. Cannot understand in modifying a 240 to the extent that it is essentially 240Z panels. If you find one of the best engines ever made boring , buy a Skyline.

 

Dude if you find a stock l series fast... All power to yah.

I personally would prefer not to be beaten by a spirited Corolla when out enjoying my car.

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Wondering where I stand with this one...?!

 

pnon.jpg

 

That's weak sauce.. No torque. An L engine makes umpteen more HP. In my opinion that sawp is going backwards. It is just a Mercedes copy anyway ;).

 

I suspect you missed this post?

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,15742.msg166145.html#msg166145

 

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Dude if you find a stock l series fast... All power to yah.

I personally would prefer not to be beaten by a spirited Corolla when out enjoying my car.

Pretty immature comment and entirely off topic.

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That's weak sauce.. No torque. An L engine makes umpteen more HP. In my opinion that sawp is going backwards. It is just a Mercedes copy anyway ;).

 

You're officially off my Christmas card list, Gav.

 

And I'm actually looking forward to being 'beaten' by a Corolla that's being driven spiritedly.

 

 

Seriously though, I think it's good to talk about this stuff. And it's clear that the zeitgeist of today is quite different than, say, the zeitgeist of 10 years ago. There's still a whole rainbow of taste and preference, but there's been a noticeable shift in the scene as a whole now that the effect of social media has really kicked in. 

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Pretty immature comment and entirely off topic.

 

It is exactly on topic in regards to value of a Z.

And those in glass houses should not throw the first stone....

 

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Seriously though, I think it's good to talk about this stuff. And it's clear that the zeitgeist of today is quite different than, say, the zeitgeist of 10 years ago. There's still a whole rainbow of taste and preference, but there's been a noticeable shift in the scene as a whole now that the effect of social media has really kicked in. 

 

 

I agree and adding to the shift is the level of zed knowledge available on the internet these days, it's pretty crazy when you think about it. I remember when I first bought a zed back in 2000 you couldnt just search the internet for every last problem and part number, let a lone the level of parts both OEM and aftermarket available these days.

 

 

This thread seems to be a little biased towards the concourse crowd on this forum, which is interesting in itself. Also the full customising of cars is a trend that has died off world wide not just with zeds. The minimalist approach is popular with a lot of 90's imports today, which were traditionally riced out fast and furious / auto salon style, which i regard as the peak of that scene.

 

 

It's an interesting concept that people want a standard show room condition zed (special models aside, because I totally get that) as a lot of people back in the modified them from new anyway. They aren't a super car and were mass produced. The Datsun Competition Catalog offered all sorts of performance parts like triple carbs. Does fitting factory option parts detract from the value of the car too? Obviously I don't think that but, I am interested to hear the answer from the concourse crowd on that one.

 

I don't know why everyone is hating on Doug for thinking a standard L24 is too slow, just because they think a car should be factory original. I bought and exhaust, headers, triple carbs and a CDI ignition as some of the first parts for my 240Z.

If you find 0-100 in 8.0 seconds exciting, buy an MG and a tweed jacket.  :P

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Couldn't agree more. Recently restored my 240 close to factory spec and insurer valued it at $40k+. Matching numbers/originality  are vital for most discerning buyers. Cannot understand in modifying a 240 to the extent that it is essentially 240Z panels. If you find one of the best engines ever made boring , buy a Skyline.

 

So my Z has had a full retro mod done. RB running gear, willwoods, coils, fluro green paint, sparco seats, carbon accessories, aftermarket 17's and my insurance has gone from $31, 000 when stock  up to $52, 000 after modification......

 

Itll now leave a M3 behind, not keep up with a Getz..... In addition it now actually stops, corners, goes better (much, much, much better) with far superior fuel economy and my eyes dont burn from the fumes!! I think if you upgrade your car for the better - the results ($$ will follow). My Z certainly outperforms the original design now in all aspects except for nostalgia....

 

 

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So my Z has had a full retro mod done. RB running gear, willwoods, coils, fluro green paint, sparco seats, carbon accessories, aftermarket 17's and my insurance has gone from $31, 000 when stock  up to $52, 000 after modification......

 

Itll now leave a M3 behind, not keep up with a Getz..... In addition it now actually stops, corners, goes better (much, much, much better) with far superior fuel economy and my eyes dont burn from the fumes!! I think if you upgrade your car for the better - the results ($$ will follow). My Z certainly outperforms the original design now in all aspects except for nostalgia....

 

This ^^

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I'll way in on this debate....

 

I know one thing that definitely devalues a Zed.....

 

Crash it, that really makes the value drop when you go from a fully functioning and fairly quick car to a heap of steaming metal that is 12 inches shorter and twisted and doesn't look pretty.

 

The only up side, I could quote one of the coolest lines from a movie ever, "Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead"

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My Z certainly outperforms the original design now in all aspects except for nostalgia....

 

Above all, is nostalgia not but the single reason why collectors and enthusiasts would seek to purchase a Z or any classic car, period? ...

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Above all, is that not but the single reason why collectors and enthusiasts would seek to purchase a Z or any classic car, period? ...

 

Not at all. I suspect the single reason that carries the most weight (but not exclusively) is nostalgia, which links directly to stock or period look and feel. Classic car prices worldwide back up this view (with some rare exceptions, of course).

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Consensus so far?

 

1. Don't crash your car

2. Automatic transmissions are bad for you

3. Nobody can predict the future (including, but not limited to, car values and trends)

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Not at all. I suspect the single reason that carries the most weight (but not exclusively) is nostalgia, which links directly to stock or period look and feel. Classic car prices worldwide back up this view (with some rare exceptions, of course).

 

 

Hi Cracker, that's what I was inferring. Can see now how that could have been interpreted either way after reading over twice (have edited now!). Nostalgia is why people seek out these cars

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So my Z has had a full retro mod done. RB running gear, willwoods, coils, fluro green paint, sparco seats, carbon accessories, aftermarket 17's and my insurance has gone from $31, 000 when stock  up to $52, 000 after modification......

 

Itll now leave a M3 behind, not keep up with a Getz..... In addition it now actually stops, corners, goes better (much, much, much better) with far superior fuel economy and my eyes dont burn from the fumes!! I think if you upgrade your car for the better - the results ($$ will follow). My Z certainly outperforms the original design now in all aspects except for nostalgia....

 

As a 53 year old, if money was no object if this above modified car was in the same concourse condition as this example Gav posted, which has matching # 240z , it would be hard for me to decide which one to go for, so to me the modifications would not devalue the car for me, I would be happy with both.

 

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Datsun-240Z-1970/SSE-AD-2694715/?Cr=0

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Seriously though, I think it's good to talk about this stuff. And it's clear that the zeitgeist of today is quite different than, say, the zeitgeist of 10 years ago. There's still a whole rainbow of taste and preference, but there's been a noticeable shift in the scene as a whole now that the effect of social media has really kicked in. 

 

Yep, times change and what was cool yesterday may be considered cliche or overdone tomorrow. That's the problem with the modified car scene in general. But build a car that reflects the period and it will always be in vogue or desirable. It is what it is and some would argue there is no point trying to change it (history that is).

 

Social media has really made people more aware of these cars and shows like Jay Leno garage which has features his Mazda Cosmo and Honda S600 have helped shine a light on some of the intricate Japanese cars of the era. Petrolicious is another program that has featured a few unique and interesting cars particularly the Japanese makes.

 

The internet and social media has also opened up the Classic Car market to the world in that it's now more accessible than ever to buy and sell on a global level. Which is important in the context of cars like the S30z that have worldwide appeal, where as Aussie muscle cars or even American Muscle cars may have a more narrow specific appeal depending on make and model.

 

Games like Forza, Gran Turisomo, Need for Speed etc.. have all features cars like the S30z and that means an entire generation of young kids has grown up knowing what an S30z is, I so infrequently see an S30z on the road these days that if it were not for such exposure I don't think many kids would know what they are.

 

Dude if you find a stock l series fast... All power to yah.

I personally would prefer not to be beaten by a spirited Corolla when out enjoying my car.

 

I guess it depends on how you define 'beaten', a flat out drag race may prove the S30z is slow by today's standards. But why are you trying to prove yourself to a Corolla driver anyway? In terms of cool factor you've got him/her out-gunned anyway. Geez maybe I am old? But the race to have the fastest car is something I gave up on a long time ago. I mean there's always going to be someone with a faster car than you, bigger pockets, more HP etc..

 

It's an interesting concept that people want a standard show room condition zed (special models aside, because I totally get that) as a lot of people back in the modified them from new anyway. They aren't a super car and were mass produced. The Datsun Competition Catalog offered all sorts of performance parts like triple carbs. Does fitting factory option parts detract from the value of the car too? Obviously I don't think that but, I am interested to hear the answer from the concourse crowd on that one.

 

It doesn't matter if it was a super car or not, cultural impact is far more important. Look at the DeLorean (not a super car) for example or the VW Combi Van (mass produced) etc.. They have had a positive cultural impact and that's what often drives their values. I don't think anyone has a problem with period relevant option parts, I certainly don't and in fact am looking for said parts myself.

 

I also don't think the fact that we like the S30z left alone for the most part means we are a concourse crowd. You can still like original but not be so pedantic about the correct washers, or colours of engine blocks or correct part for that specific year. There are various levels of detail you can go to with this and I don't necessarily think that most owners here want to get their restorations to the highest of the high level.

 

A good video that shows the difference between 2 restorations of Mercury's Cougar's, 1 has some small details missing and the other has been painfully restored to totally original shape.

 

First car (CJ) = $44,000 - Overview of this car at 2:00 min mark. (15:03 is the auction)

Second car (SCJ) = $140,000 (Auction at 22:51) - Details on this car are littered throughout....

 

Yes there is a specification difference in the 2 cars, but they look almost identical. Also the first car lacks some attention to detail, that most of us could probably live with and wouldn't worry too much about, yet the cars bring drastically different auction results.

 

Above all, is nostalgia not but the single reason why collectors and enthusiasts would seek to purchase a Z or any classic car, period? ...

 

Not at all. I suspect the single reason that carries the most weight (but not exclusively) is nostalgia, which links directly to stock or period look and feel. Classic car prices worldwide back up this view (with some rare exceptions, of course).

 

@Cracker I think that is what Theremm was getting at no? It's about Nostalgia more than anything else and nostalgia is a powerful force.

 

 

 

 

 

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I think the worst thing you can do o a Zed is put an "X" after the Z.

 

Simon, read my new disclaimer below - before you start whinging. 

 

Seriously, I think the biggest issue with power transplants is not hat they are done, but hat they date the reno.

 

1980's - holden/ford  V8s

1990's - 2010 - RBs

2010+ - 20B & BMW hybrids

 

All great mods, and dont get me wrong - I would love any of them (love the RB path and certainly don't have the brains or pockets for the BMW) - but dating the reno.  I suspect i will come down to who wants an old school cleveland when they can have a shiney new bavarian?

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Hi Cracker, that's what I was inferring. Can see now how that could have been interpreted either way after reading over twice (have edited now!). Nostalgia is why people seek out these cars

 

Sorry, yes, your edit makes your point clear. I agree, of course :)

 

And now that you've made your edit, my comment looks a little silly... ah well, maybe that's more representative of my ability to comprehend anyway!

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I think the worst thing you can do o a Zed is put an "X" after the Z.

 

Unless it is a 2 seater :D!

 

Seriously, I think the biggest issue with power transplants is not hat they are done, but hat they date the reno.

 

1980's - holden/ford  V8s

1990's - 2010 - RBs

2010+ - 20B & BMW hybrids

 

 

As you have alluded to, whether intentionally or not, is that these modifications are a fad and what is perceived as 'valuable' this decade will no doubt have a certain degree of undesirability about it the next... How many of us would be willing to drop 20-30k+ on a well maintained zed with a V8 in it when we could have one with an RB fitted instead? (Yes I realise there may be a small minority...)... And as history has proven, what's to say (and I believe in fact that it has already been said!) that the RB (etc) stock of the current generation will be superceded and overlooked by many in years to come. The point being, albeit slower and not as fuel efficient as current technology, is that the L series (modified or not) or other period correct modifications (S20, TC24-B1Z etc) are timeless and will always have a higher appeal to the broader majority, which after all, isn't that what drives value?

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Well, yes & no. I think the nostalgia thing is important to the car's identity & perceived value. However, owners who prefer to update & upgrade their car can argue that their car takes on a new (more modern?) identity, & that's fine it's their car to their taste.

But while I think that the work owners put into their car doing all that can be a great credit to them, at the same time I think owners who are content to keep their cars in their original period state are on the best course. Too few Zeds around like that anymore. So supply & demand will drive values of those. Bit of a time capsule thing.

 

 

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Yep, times change and what was cool yesterday may be considered cliche or overdone tomorrow.

This is a great thread with excellent points of view…..so I'm going wade into the fray, twirling my pearl handled Colt .45s! Let me state from the outset; personally, I am not a fan of stanced, slammed and flare guarded Zeds with extreme offset rims fitted with perilously stretched tyres. Nor do I salivate over hair dryer enhanced RB donks or L series bent eights shoehorned into Frankensteined hybrids.  Not my wet dream. I hear the howls of protestation as I write this. And I say unto you, each to their own. One man's meat is another man's poison. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This is what we uphold in our free and democratic society.

 

However, personally I think Yoshihiko Matsuo san and the design team at Nissan did a pretty damn good styling job on the S30; a real classic.  And to be a classic car the styling must be able to transcend time, that is, it still looks as good today as it did “in the day”. A classic must also be above fashion that instantly traps it as passé. I wonder whether chopped guards, plastic arches and slammed suspension will be to Zeds what flared pants, body shirts and platform shoes were to the seventies?

 

This is the crux of my concern. Whilst the ZG flares are attractive today, will they be the desired look in say ten years time? They may enhance the value today but be extremely detrimental to the value in the future.  The problem is all those butchered guards (cut-outs turfed in the waste skip) to accommodate wide rims and flares will be significantly expensive to revert in the future.  It is probably fare to say most people on this forum are into Zeds (Zees for our American bros) as part of a life long fetish rather than a short-term investment.

 

So whilst I don't applaud some people's interpretation of S30 styling, I neither deride nor sneer at it either. I simply commend you for your expression of individuality but gently caution against being drawn into the pitfall of "fashionable".

 

 

 

 

 

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