BobsYourUncle Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 My engine's decided to stop turning over - it's not just a flat battery, as I first suspected, nor is it the relay, as I've tried a new one (the car's been re-wired to use a relay rather than just through the ignition switch). The motor isn't seized, so I figure it has to be either the starter motor or the ignition switch. There was no gradual break down, one minute it was working, the next it wasn't. When I turn the key to start, the relay does click, so I'm leaning towards the starter motor. However I've heard that the ignition switch can die - I'm going to probe around with a multimeter tonight to see if it's making good contacts. How do you remove the ignition barrel from the steering column? It has two regular screws, but also two grub screws with no head, is there a trick, or do I need to drill them out? I guess I could cut a straight slot in them with the dremel... I've probed the connections to the started, it has 12V, GND, and a third connection that briefly gets some volts on it when I turn the key to start (less than a second, hard to measure). I'm guessing this is the signal that engages the solenoid? Shouldn't it be constant voltage when the key is at "start"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Does the starter crank when you bridge the terminals with a screwdriver?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 have you tried the old screwdriver across the starter terminals trick with the ignition on? If the car starts then you know it's the ignition switch, if it doesn't then all likelyhood it is the starter. I have had starters die on me suddenly, and I have had them die a long slow and painful death, sometimes to be lazarus like resucitated to last another day to then die again when you least need the hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobsYourUncle Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'll give that a go tonight. That's bypassing the solenoid too, isn't it, so if it doesn't crank, it's definitely the starter motor? I've read somewhere that a VL/RB30 starter is a bolt-on swap, is that right? Might be more readily available... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 correct... just bridge the two terminals... if nothing happens its the starter motor... to double check this, pull out the starter motor and do it on the floor with a battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Could also be a bad earth. Start simple, check the terminals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patch Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Can also be a dud battery, it may say 12 volts but when you try and start it, it has no guts and the voltage drops way down and all you get is a click, before you get to involved try jump starting. Battery's die with the cold weather if they are getting on a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If its clicking. I'd agree with Patch that it actually is the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobsYourUncle Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 There's only the one click from the relay, and I've tried a known good battery, so it shouldn't be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patch Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If you replace the starter motor and not check the battery by jump stating by another car, you will not be the first to do so. Very common and catches a lot of people. In Winter especially a known good battery can start a car allow you to drive it and not allow you to restart it 5 min's later, when they drop a cell they can do so very quickly, and they can still show they have 12 volts, but when you try to crank they drop down to say 8 volts, just enough to allow a click of the starter motor, if you turn the lights on to check if the battery is flat, it will still show fine until you put a large load on like trying to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
620Z Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I have known a few key barrel's to get worn out. This stop's the car cranking. I would be checking that before the Starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nizm0zed Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've probed the connections to the started, it has 12V, GND, and a third connection that briefly gets some volts on it when I turn the key to start (less than a second, hard to measure). I'm guessing this is the signal that engages the solenoid? Shouldn't it be constant voltage when the key is at "start"? That bit makes me think its the ignition switch in the column, you can go too far on them and it goes past the contacts, mine does it. however, bridging the solenoid terminals should still cause the starter to crank. If it doesnt, check the positive and negative cables, ensure they are in good shape and tight. Check for corrosion on the cable on the inside of the battery terminal plug, that can cause you problems and be hard to spot. If thats all ok, i would then be leading to a dead starter motor. It could be seized in place (hence 1 click but no crank) or it could be a faulty commutator or brushes to the motor itself. (again, it'll click but not spin) Yes, the RB starter motors do fit, however, on the L series, the solenoid will be facing upwards, the Rb starter will be facing outwards at 90 degrees towards the chassis rail. there is plenty of room for it to fit, it wont foul on anything, however you need to make sure your cables are long enough to reach the new position. it'll only work out to be about an inch longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaygZ Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 have you tried the old screwdriver across the starter terminals trick with the ignition on? If the car starts then you know it's the ignition switch, if it doesn't then all likelyhood it is the starter. Does the starter crank when you bridge the terminals with a screwdriver?? Gentlemen, sycronise your post clicks ... on my mark.... POST! Sorry, I should add something productive:- short out the relay (complete the low power side). If it cranks then you know it is the switch - saves pulling it out for nothing. Dimitri can confirm, but I think the ignition switch is an earth switch - that is to say if earths out the power, rather than allows power to the relay. So take the ignition switch wire of the relay and earth out that terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 wow... whats the odds!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaygZ Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 wow... whats the odds!! one in 84,600 (24x60x60) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted May 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 29, 2012 The wire that goes to the solenoid is a positive potential, so don't earth it. One quick way to check that its not just sticky worn brushes, is while you are holding the key in the "crank" position, get someone to tap the starter with something heavy and blunt. Sometimes the brushes stick in their holders and as they wear, no longer touch the commutator of the motor. If that doesn't work, check for good earths and apply 12V directly from the battery to the small wire of the starter solenoid even when the car is off to make sure the motor is fine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaygZ Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Dimitri, I wasn't suggesting shorting out the solenoid wire. It was the wire from his switch relay. He has his ignition switch operating a relay that then runs 12V to the starter solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted May 29, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 29, 2012 Sorry...forgot to put the spectacles on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobsYourUncle Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Ok, with help from my lovely wife, I shorted the terminals on the solenoid, while monitoring the battery voltage. I got sparks on contact, but no cranking, and the battery was solid 12.5 - 13V. So I guess it's the starter motor. I'll try giving it a bash, but otherwise I think I'm up for a new starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've got 2 L series starters up here in Brisvegas you can have, not sure on condition as I haven't used them for a long time. Come and take them away for the price of a trip up north..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobsYourUncle Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Resolved - it was the starter, all good now (well, it cranks and runs, but there's all sorts of other problems ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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