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S30 - Racing and Period mods

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Alan ( hs30)

I knew the police car existed, while i was at Zama, with Kazuo Hioki, the curator, i asked him, " when was this car made" he said it was made in 1969.

I then asked "was the Police car supplied with this body style as a new car" he said yes.

I asked "do you have original documents from Nissan showing this information" he said "unfortunately no"

 

Maybe in the interpretation of the first question, he reffered to the Z as a Z, and not secifically as the Police car.

 

No matter, but the simple fact that Nissan supplied/sold/gifted/claimed tax deductions, for a new vehicle, fitted with a body kit ( G nose, flares, whatever) gives us scope here in Australia, under CAMS group S rules, to apply for the more aerodynamic kit.

Only thing, and this is what I am continuing to be on about, we NEED documentary actual evidence, to put a case forward.

Not heresay, not second hand news, not an email or notes from a historian, not a few unsubstantiated old photos, sure, all this adds to any case to be put.

 

Tell me, please, the various model variants you mentioned, including 432ZR, 432, other versions, you say was undisputable fact sold in Japan pre end of 1970,

It is this information we here in Australia need, we need sales brochures, dealer documentation, Nissan documentation, sales reciepts ( if any - very hard)

The more information that details the "optonparts" that we need, that were actually fitted, at time of a sale, whether it was from Nissan factory, or just even from one dealer alone, catering for the harder core buyers.

 

We need brakes (mk63)  vented fronts, and disc rear, rims, at 7" or greater, body kits ( g nose) triple carbs

 

They can be from any S30 model, be it Fairlady Z, 240/260/280 Zz, from anywhere in the world.

CAMS in Australia have set precedent where they will accept a car that fits in the Group S production sports requirements, from outside Australia, but the intending competitor must show indesputable evidence of such car, in whatever variant, as sold or supplied( police car) as a new car

 

Dimitri( zedman240) the Peter Tobin car if still existing will qualify as a Group T car, gp T is a CAMS category for genuine original prod BASED sports ars WITH a documented history, PRIOR to end 1981.

Gordons race cars, the D'Alberto Z, Lindsay Drife's Tom Cantwells, all have able to be documented history, and will need their logbooks, but best of all today, in 2012, and beyond, they can be raced in Historic category, rather than as a outdated uncompetitive car in Marque Sports.

 

I have a Group T car, it is nothing special, it complies to rules, but, when it is in the CAMS dictated category for which it must race at a Historic meeting, it is quite up at pointy end of field, and so would ANY one of the above potential Gp T Zeds.

 

Alan( hs30) how pissible would it be to obtain as much information as above, to be put to CAMS on behalf of the 7 or 8 competitors, in Z cars in Australia?

Once accepted, it should give impetus for others to up spec their cars, and we could have more Z's running in Gp S here.

 

It is a bit ordinary running behind the $250,000 budget Porsche's, when, if we can "get" what we need, we can be up front, as the Z's once were in USA (porsche give no pharque for japan racing)

 

Mike NZeder, the rules in NZ are sensible, my T car would be a K car, but my S car, would be hopelessly outclassed by your T&C cars, the silliness of it is, if say a NZ car in T&C was to come over here, it would NOT be allowed to compete in Gp S. a jolly shame!

 

I and a few others with T cars here are contemplating bringing them over to NZ to run Historic meets, quite a few Aussies have done this, and thouroghly enjoy the NZ motorsport fraternity hospitality.

 

We are also considering shipping a couple of older Datsuns to USA for the huge Historic meets they have

( two group T cars,, Datsun Sports 2000's of Lea and Henderson) the Yanks are very keen to get them over there.

 

Enuf now, my brain hurts!

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I'm sorry guys' i just get all a bit worked up and passionate about motorsport!

( probably why i didnt make it as a good El Presidente of the Z club up here!  - meh! )

 

When all i have just in front of me, is two or three Porshes, and i am wrenching the Nth degree out of the Z, knowing full well my discs are shot, brake pedal is on the floor, gearbox synchros are gone, tyres are mush.

I know i could get them, all we need is parity, and i feel it is possible.

 

We can make good power, mine with a single stock throttle body is as good as the twin Hitachi/SU .

 

We just need rims, brakes and a slippery nose.

 

We have a minimum weight, which is fine, we just have to get seroius in acid dipping our hanging steel panels till they go all pinholey

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Just reading my book "Super Profile" It is going to be real hard to prove history in 1969, the book says.

Quote: Datsun chose the Tokyo Motor show of November 1969 to launch the 240z, and in only a few months the first production cars were arriving in the States.

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Alan - do you have any period photos or photos of period cars you want/could to link/post here. I respect your copyright of the photo you have taken on your many trips to Japan.

 

Mike,

I'd be prepared to supply certain photos as part of a properly organised representation / application / claim to ratify and legalise certain parts and specs for racing, but I don't like putting too much stuff up on the internet. It ends up all over the place, and that can dilute its effectiveness....

 

Hope you understand.

Cheers,

Alan T.

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Alan ( hs30)

I knew the police car existed, while i was at Zama, with Kazuo Hioki, the curator, i asked him, " when was this car made" he said it was made in 1969.

I then asked "was the Police car supplied with this body style as a new car" he said yes.

I asked "do you have original documents from Nissan showing this information" he said "unfortunately no"

 

Maybe in the interpretation of the first question, he reffered to the Z as a Z, and not secifically as the Police car.

 

I've met and talked with Hioki san several times too ( he's a close friend and ex work colleague of some good friends of mine ) and I can only guess that it was a basic misunderstanding. Hioki san knows his stuff, actually owns a Roadster himself, and has been writing articles on Nissan ( and Prince ) race history for Nostalgic Hero over the last year or so. He probably would have become President of NISMO if he hadn't had an untimely illness, and now acts as a roving technical advisor, consultant and representative for them.

 

I should think he probably meant the S30-series Z debuted in 1969, not that actual car. In fact, that actual Kanagawa highway patrol Fairlady 240ZG has the chassis number 'HS30-10721', which puts it at around January or February 1972 production date range....

 

No matter, but the simple fact that Nissan supplied/sold/gifted/claimed tax deductions, for a new vehicle, fitted with a body kit ( G nose, flares, whatever) gives us scope here in Australia, under CAMS group S rules, to apply for the more aerodynamic kit.

Only thing, and this is what I am continuing to be on about, we NEED documentary actual evidence, to put a case forward.

Not heresay, not second hand news, not an email or notes from a historian, not a few unsubstantiated old photos, sure, all this adds to any case to be put.

 

I would have thought that in the case of the 'HS30-H' model 'Fairlady 240ZG' with all its aero kit, that this would have been quite easy? Nissan's own sales brochures, advertising and press showed quite clearly that the model was put on sale in Japan from October 1971 onwards, and it was FIA and JAF homologated for racing purposes. The homologation papers state that the modifcation / variant can be backdated to chassis number "H(L)S30-000001", but it's for FIA Group 4 and Japanese GT use only. Most race sanctioning bodies would want you to prove period use, and you'd likely find it impossible to find evidence of period use much before the second half of 1971 I'm afraid. That's just the way it is.

 

Tell me, please, the various model variants you mentioned, including 432ZR, 432, other versions, you say was undisputable fact sold in Japan pre end of 1970,

It is this information we here in Australia need, we need sales brochures, dealer documentation, Nissan documentation, sales reciepts ( if any - very hard)

 

As I mentioned, the 'S30-S' Fairlady Z, 'S30' Fairlady Z-L, 'PS30' Fairlady Z432 and 'PS30-SB' Fairlady Z432-R models were all being built, sold and registered for road use in Japan before the end of 1969. Nissan's own 'Shatai Bango Ichi Ran Hyo' lists ( Japanese home market production chassis number sequences for vehicles, split through chassis number prefixes by production year ) give the data quite clearly and officially. You could also refer to sales brochures, advertising and auto magazine articles. The 1969 year magazine articles clearly show Japanese road-registered cars. Other than that you'd be chasing evidence of individual cases, where sales receipts / invoices would be difficult to track down, but surely not impossible.

 

The more information that details the "optonparts" that we need, that were actually fitted, at time of a sale, whether it was from Nissan factory, or just even from one dealer alone, catering for the harder core buyers.

 

We need brakes (mk63)  vented fronts, and disc rear, rims, at 7" or greater, body kits ( g nose) triple carbs

 

They can be from any S30 model, be it Fairlady Z, 240/260/280 Zz, from anywhere in the world.

CAMS in Australia have set precedent where they will accept a car that fits in the Group S production sports requirements, from outside Australia, but the intending competitor must show indesputable evidence of such car, in whatever variant, as sold or supplied( police car) as a new car

 

I think some of this is obviously a problem of interpretation. If a Porsche 911-L is allowed to use certain parts because they were fitted and sold as standard equipment on, say, a 911-S, then I don't see why you couldn't say that a Datsun 240Z should be able to use some of parts fitted to the Fairlady Z432. The problem is that the sanctioning bodies ( or your competitors ) often make a distinction between the export variant 'Datsun 240Z' models ( LHD and RHD ) and the Japanese domestic market variants. They say that they are "different cars", and in some ways they are correct. There were however 'HS30' prefixed Datsun 240Z models ( 240Z / 240Z-L / 240ZG ) sold in the Japanese home market from late 1971, and these should help. Again, it should be a case of making a copper-bottomed representation to your race sanctioing body that your competitors can't successfully protest.

 

It is a bit ordinary running behind the $250,000 budget Porsche's, when, if we can "get" what we need, we can be up front, as the Z's once were in USA (porsche give no pharque for japan racing)

 

I'm afraid Nissan never really made the right moves in period. They didn't really homologate the cars and parts as well as they could have done, and much of what they did was centred around their own works activities and what suited them rather than their racing customers. You say, for example, that the Zs were in front of the Porsches in the USA in period, but they were only in front of the 914. The 240Zs that were successful in the SCCA's C-Production class were not racing head-to-head with the 911s.

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Just reading my book "Super Profile" It is going to be real hard to prove history in 1969, the book says.

Quote: Datsun chose the Tokyo Motor show of November 1969 to launch the 240z, and in only a few months the first production cars were arriving in the States.

 

Again, that's a perfect example of "240Z" history being divorced from S30-series Z range history in the way that it has always - mistakenly - been by non-Japanese writers and enthusiasts. The author ( James Morris ) didn't really know the first thing about the home market models, and saw them as something different from the "240Z". You can still see the same - mistaken - philosophy today on websites like zhome.com. These people appear to think that the '240Z' is/was head and shoulders above all the Japanese market models. However, the term "240Z" doesn't mean just one model, one variant, or even one spec. if you look at the different market versions as well as the domestic Fairlady 240Z, Fairlady 240Z-L and Fairlady 240ZG, you can see that the term "240Z" can mean any number of things...

 

The correct way to look at it is to view the first generation S30-series Zs as a family of models, at concept, in design, in engineering, at launch and in production. It would solve a lot of problems, and avoid a lot of confusion.   

 

In any case, it's indisputable that the S30-series Z was made and sold in Japan before the end of 1969. The rest of the world - including the hallowed USA - was a different matter.

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Mike,

I'd be prepared to supply certain photos as part of a properly organised representation / application / claim to ratify and legalise certain parts and specs for racing, but I don't like putting too much stuff up on the internet. It ends up all over the place, and that can dilute its effectiveness....

 

Hope you understand.

Cheers,

Alan T.

I understand and respect that and it makes sense. I am sure this is why we don't see online info on MG with factory fitted webers etc

 

Jason with your rules in Australia you should race Nissan/Prince Skyline GT-B factory fitted with 5spd, lsd, triple dcoe 40 webers and raced in Australia and New Zealand in the 60's.

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I understand and respect that and it makes sense. I am sure this is why we don't see online info on MG with factory fitted webers etc

 

Jason with your rules in Australia you should race Nissan/Prince Skyline GT-B factory fitted with 5spd, lsd, triple dcoe 40 webers and raced in Australia and New Zealand in the 60's.

Mike, over the years there have been three or four Prince Skyline GT-B's raced, fitted with above standard items, the category is Group N ( production touring cars, up to 1973 cut off date)

The attitude and driving style of Group N, tends to er on side of a full contact sport, car damage and cost is high. Gp S is a little more gentile!

 

Yes the issue of Webers on MGB, is intetesting, as when the Datsun fraternity has requested to be shown what paperwork and evidence was presented to CAMS, re Webbers, so that the Datsun guys may provide as good a document/evidence etc, it is not forthcoming, the best excuse i got was, "oh it was so long ago, in early 1990's that we didnt keep those records, but it is all fact, so we allow them to use webers"

Sheesh!

 

Alan HS30, what possibility is thete to obtain a scanned email copy of whatever Nissan issued advertising, pamphlets, dealer papers or documents, that show corelating dates or confirmation.

For example, say, a full page scan from a magazine showing a quarter page advert for a dealer selling a new car with the extra items fitted, and on same page would be the date of issue of magazine, and other non relevant period style adverts or articles.

Ie an old 1971 copy of say a british motorsport magazine, a section of american newspaper, a dealers advertisement

( this i believe was what the MG guys supplied, an advert showed a single UK dealer was selling them on new cars, CAMS accepted this)

If you are uneasy with open publication on the internet/websites as per above, a diect email would be preffered.

I would then in turn forward this information the the Historic Elegibility Officers, at CAMS, along with yet another submission. It is the documentary evidence that will confirm the fact that is required.

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Alan HS30, what possibility is thete to obtain a scanned email copy of whatever Nissan issued advertising, pamphlets, dealer papers or documents, that show corelating dates or confirmation.

For example, say, a full page scan from a magazine showing a quarter page advert for a dealer selling a new car with the extra items fitted, and on same page would be the date of issue of magazine, and other non relevant period style adverts or articles.

 

Original ( 1969 year ) advertising, sales brochures, evidence of cars on the road in private ownership in Japan etc is no problem. I think what might be more difficult is in the second part of your question. You're asking for period proof of "extra items fitted" at sale, and that's going to be very difficult. I certainly don't know of any ( off the top of my head ) from period mags or reports from 1969 year.

 

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying it will be hard to prove. Nissan's 'Sports Options' lists and 'Junsei Race Option' lists were official in-house documents from the manufacturer, so you can prove that the parts existed and that the manufacturer made them expressly for that purpose. The problems start when you find that - technically speaking - use of many of these items on a road car in Japan at the time was illegal. It didn't stop people buying them, having them fitted / fitting them themselves and using them on the road as well as in competition, but the problem comes from lack of documentary evidence. Because it was technically illegal to fit - for example - a set of triple 40PHH carbs to your L20A-engined Fairlady Z-L and use it on the road, it tended to be done somewhat covertly. When it came to 'Shakken' test time, many such parts would be taken off the car - and the originals temporarily re-installed - in order to pass the test. If you got stopped by a car-savvy polce officer, he could write you a ticket and force you to reverse the mods.

 

You've also got the problem of people pointing out that a Fairlady Z-L or Fairlady Z432 wasn't "the same" as a Datsun 240Z, because they had different chassis prefixes, different engines and different homologations.     

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Hi guys just reading a zed book I recently bought. Racing in Japan. According to the manual issued by Nissan Motorsports Department in Japan, the Z432 was also available  to customers in Z432-R. The R was only 960kg with full fuel, 80kg lighter than standard 432 dispite the 100lt fuel tank instead of the60lt one fitted on all production models including theZ432. When it left the works, the R had the same engines the Z432. An auxiliary oil cooler was fitted and the R also had a different brake master cylinder, with out servo, and brake pedal assembly more suited to racing. The R also had a fiberglass front apron and bonnet instead of the steel, and Perspex windows to the sides and rear. Lightweight bucket seats with four point seatbelt for the driver.the heater, clock and radio were removed ulong with the sound deadening.An interesting addition was the fiberglass engine transmission cover and rear spoiler.Magnesium alloy wheels where initially listed as standard on the Z432 , but the R left the works on the standard 4.5J steel wheels. It also says the racing debut of the Z432 came at the Suzuka 300km Race held on the 18th Jan 1970. It goes on and on about the Zed racing history from 1970 onwards but no mention of any racing in 1969. Cheers Gordon.

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Alan, Gordon, Mike Patch, and any others,

The input we are providing is all valuable and very usefull information.

 

As Alan notes, the fitting of many items did occur after a sale of a car, some items may have upset the local constabulary, ie triple carbs ( emisdions?) and had the stock items fitted, but other items, such as wider rims and bigger /better brakes, may not have upset the police.

 

It will be the rims and brakes that will be of most importance, along with the more aero front end.

 

May i pissibly ask, that, those of you that have documentary paperwork showing these items as being supplied and FITTED to a NEW car at time of sale, be scanned, or a digital photo taken, and emailed to me, so that i can start putting together a case.

 

I have the homologation documents for 240, as well as 260/280, these are CAMS accepted documents, that show the parts as "options" ie not dealer fitted.

I also have the Nissan issued Option Parts catalogues and price lists, with printed dates to confirm publication date.

 

The other documentation/books/brochures/advertisements, as mentioned above, may well go towards helping the few guys here in Australa wishing to persist with racing a Z in Historic Production Sports cars.

 

Any and all assistance will be appreciated, not by just myself,  but by the other 8 Z racers that are running.

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Right is has been almost 12 months since this thread was started. So any updates?

 

Well updates from me then.

 

I have picked up my other old set of MK63's that I used to own in the 90's (I also sold one set to Adam which are going on the Hornet) so I now have 2 sets again in my collection of parts. I also have acquired 2 x early S130 rear brake setups which looking at the FIA documentation is 100% dead ringer for the rear disc setup approved for the S30 on 1/3/74. The specs are the same 269mm x 10mm same designed clamshell caliper and pad size 100% identical. Given these were homologated as

"The modifications are to be considered as: normal evolution of the type"
aka not group 4 modification but standard production based I will be fitting these to the rear of RS30.

 

I will also fit the MK63, triple mikuni 44's that I have and I will apply for Schedule K locally here in NZ and see how I go at getting these through and if they come back asking for documentation - I will provide the relevant sections/copies of the sports options catelogues or FIA 3023 documentation.

 

So I have decided I will try and build my car/get approval for as a

Competition Sports and Grand Touring (GT) Car: This means cars which must have space for at least two(2) seats, disposed one on either side of the car’s longitudinal axis and must comply with the regulations and highway code of the country of registration.

 

The  cars  must  be  derived  directly  from  vehicles  eligible  as  standard  Sports  and  GT cars,  but  includes  modifications  carried  out  in  the  period  within  the  limits  of  the international  rules  for  Grand  Touring  Cars  in  force  at  the  time.  The  fundamental  and general  designs  of  the  car  and  of  the engine  must  remain  the  same  as  those  of  the corresponding series production car.

 

So that means my S30 can and should be able to have all the parts fitted as they were used in Period in Japan GT series and other FIA events. The reason for going for the "Competition Sports and Grand Touring (GT)" class means I can fit the triple 44's, coilover and run a pedal box/dual MC setup if I go for the "Standard Sport and GT" then original carbs, non coil over (unless standard fitment) and brake booster must be retained. My S30 already has a pedal box installed so unless I want to undo lots of work already done then that is the class I have to go for.

 

One thing that is 100% NLA is the vented rotors for the MK63's so I spent, again, hours going over the internet, brake catelogues online and in PDF formats to find a suitable rotor that could be used - I have not purchase a set yet (budget for the month all gone on getting my old MK63's back) but I think I have found a good alternative - specs of this rotor are 276mm diameter, 22mm thick and 44mm total hat height. The original rotor spec was 276mm x 20mm total height 43.5mm for use with the 260z hubs. This was the closest I could find that is readily available (not like the hard to get Z31 4 stud items these days) and will not require the installation of a spacer etc however the centre ID does need to be taken out to the 81mm required to ID on the rear of hub and the PDC needs to be redrilled (maybe) from the default 4x100mm PDC to the 4x103mm PDC required for the mounting on the rear of the hub.

 

Once I get a set of these common as muck rotors and fit them up I will let you know it goes.

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So talking of MK63's Jason can you still get the seal kits (I sold my sets with my MK63's to someone in AU already :( )

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Should look here more

Mike yes i can get the proper seal kits for mk63.

Some have tried toyota hilux seals, but they are not quite right, they leak then fail!

 

I can get new calipers, they are a touch pricey!

 

NZ's historic rules do allow more freedoms than Australia's, we are still yet to establish that a new car was delivered to a person, to then be registered for use on public roads, with items from rhe option parts catalogue fitted, at time of delivery.

CAMS Australia has said,"show us proof of this, wether from the Nissan factory, or a dealer, and we will approve this"

 

I have been advised of a number of cars delivered by the factory, with these certain items fitted, for use on public roads, in Britian, Europe and Africa, their registration numbers, and who recieved these cars. Both from Nissan, and a concessionaire ( dealer) in Woking UK, and one somewhere in aafrica, being DT Dobiethis occured from 1970 through to 1975 with 240 and 260 Z models. CAMS "run on" rules will allow any 280Z to also have these items.

 

With the rotors to suit front using a 260 hub, there are some that are close, will require machining, and a slight rejig of the caliper mounts on the strut.

 

I have been successfull in obtaining a rear vented rotor for the 240 RS group B rally cars, it too needs a bit of machining ( works Stanza P10 had same rear H190 axle assy)

I also have sales brochures showing cars with these parts fitted, along with sales brochures for the 432Z.

All we know require are documents from the two dealers, or some form of evidence that shows this.

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Jason,

 

Have you contacted the SVRA with regards to how they set their rules for Vintage Racing in the USA and how/why they allow all the stuff you need?

 

Here is their rules for the S30 aka 240z/260z/280z any model is accepted to be modified up or down the range.

 

http://www.vararacing.com

35863_bcf7524a13ae51fb3ac58d6bb1855be5b47dcd22.pdf

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Hey guys, sorry to activate an old thread and apologise if it's a bit annoying. But after just reading this thread would love to know if there were any further updates from the last conversations that were had in this thread. Or even if there have just been anymore changes to the whole scene to make s30z's more competitive in Motorsport in Australia

 

Thanks

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This thread is about historics, is that what you are only interested in? If not it might be an idea to start you own thread and be a bit more specific about what motorsport you are interested in and your approximate budget.

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240z71, a well set up s30 as a Group S car, in both Historic events, along with events for Group 2 Sports Cars, can be very satisfactory when it comes to "bangs for your bucks"

With over 25 possible events to race in, around Aus, there is plenty on.

You wont win, but you can get pretty close to the top outrights.

As far as getting approvals for items that were fitted by Nissan in zjapan, South Africa and the UK, unfortunately, the lack of paperwork, at the moment, is the main issue.

 

I am no longer racing due to health ssues, but am more than happy to assist and mentor others in the pursuit f racing the Z cars.

 

You after a Ready to Race car, by chance???

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This thread is about historics, is that what you are only interested in? If not it might be an idea to start you own thread and be a bit more specific about what motorsport you are interested in and your approximate budget.

I was just wondering if there was any progress in getting approval for the option items that were used in Japan and the like that's all, don't really need to start a thread as i would have felt like a bit of a half Witt starting a thread to ask how progress was going on another thread. I appolagise if it was an inconvenience

240z71, a well set up s30 as a Group S car, in both Historic events, along with events for Group 2 Sports Cars, can be very satisfactory when it comes to "bangs for your bucks"

With over 25 possible events to race in, around Aus, there is plenty on.

You wont win, but you can get pretty close to the top outrights.

As far as getting approvals for items that were fitted by Nissan in zjapan, South Africa and the UK, unfortunately, the lack of paperwork, at the moment, is the main issue.

 

 

I am no longer racing due to health ssues, but am more than happy to assist and mentor others in the pursuit f racing the Z cars.

 

You after a Ready to Race car, by chance???

Sorry to hear about your health issues limiting your racing. In a perfect world I would love to buy your race prep'd Z but got many limiting factors including the 240z I currently have that needs a lot of attention. However once my Z has been back together for a few years and I'm turning it into More of a race car I will be sure to start a thread to help determine what rules and regulation to build the car to fit within so I can get the most fun out of driving my Z

 

Just wanted to see if there had been any updates with this thread that's all, thanks

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As far as progress on seeking approvals for items, as detailed in Options Parts Catalgues, the requirement, is, that we mst provide documentary evidence that shows that items were fitted to cars supplied by either Nissan, to either its distributors, or, by Nissan and then supplied to customers.

Or,

Dealers, also known as, in some countries, Concessionaires, where the items were fitted to a new car, and then supplied to, or, so

D to a customer.

 

Certain cars meet the above criteria and were supplied by Nissan factory in Japan, along with new cars, that were then fitted with particular items, by Cncessionaires.

These cars were then fully road registered for se on publc roads, in certain countries for various purposes.

 

The items included, the vented rotors with mi63 calipers, 7" wide rims, triple Mikuni Solex carbs,

Undertrays, fender flares, fibreglass hanging panels.

 

We need documentary evidence, this is the edict from the governing division f Historic Motorsport here in Australia.

 

The other ( minor) anomaly, is evdence that some cars were physically sold in 1969, as this would put the 240Z into a year category that runs up to end December 1969 ( currently all Z are in post 1970)

The rule ( ddly!) is that Model Run On rules then apply, ie a 260Z and then 280Z would also be "classified" as pre 1970

 

As i said, i am happy to pursue, as I am aware f how the "system" works, and who to approach.

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Jason's usual Sc sales pitch I see, suggest checking what actual Sc racing is available in your proposed racing area eg interstate travel? In Q last year there were three Sc race events, that's it. Also a Sc car will be relatively slow for any other racing or sprints, plus you may find the Sc rules too restricting on performance for you. The trend when still using the L engine, in Q anyway, is to use sensible mods and a more powerful engine which can result in quite a fast Z which is still basically a Z. Much more fun, much more challenging.

 

Perhaps join a Z car club too, nothing beats chatting with blokes who are out there doing local motorsport in their Zeds. Good luck and please keep us informed on any progress :)

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And Richard with his usual dig back.

 

Richard, as well as the historic racing, of which there was the Capricorn cup run over 5 rounds last year for Group S in Qld, there is also the ProdSports category which had 5 rounds of sprint racing and two enduro rounds, 1 hour events, in which a Group Sc car would be competitive in as it would run in the 2F class, or class E for the endures. Plus there are an additional 4 rounds of the Queensland Cams championships at Morgan Park for sports cars that prodsports don't count in their championship, that caters for sports cars where if enough ran, Group SC would get their own class.

 

So for door to door racing that is something over a dozen events for a Group SC car in Queensland alone, so a bit more than the three you guessed at.

 

What kills the s30 in the prodsports events for outright results is the limitations for the rules. My old car was a quick Zed, but a slow car in Prodsports, and to get it quicker needed a stupid amount of money spent to get another couple of seconds and still be compliant with the rule book.

 

In addition to the door to door stuff there was the Tighe Cams Hillclimb series at Mt Cotton, the state hillclimb championship, 2 hill climbs at Noosa, but Richard won't go to those because his 300km/h plus Zed won't get out of 2nd gear so that isn't quick enough.... But if he ever went to Noosa and had a play, I know he would change his mind, Noosa certainly gets your attention.

 

There was also all the street sprints in the greater South East corner, Gatton, Oakey, Fraser Coast and then the QR run sprint days.

 

If you are going to run a Zed, you won't be getting outright trophies, but you will pick up a few class trophies.

 

First off decide what competitions you want to run. if it's door to door and you are in Queensland, myself, and i'm sure Jason would as well, can offer to mentor you for what you need to do for yourself and how the car can be modified to comply with the class or category you want to run and introduce you to the relevant associations and people involved to get you on the track.

 

 

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All I try to do is help the OP by mentioning the broader picture, rather than solely concentrate on one specific class. Tell me what the problem is with that and where is my self interest?

 

Anyway, having a car that can be entered in many events is quite different to having a car that is specifically built for one class of event, that is what I was getting at. Of course you can enter a Sc car in lots of events but being competitive is quite another matter. Most people who race want to be competitive, you won't be in a Sc Zed if the competition is reasonable from what I've seen in Q. Of course favourable events can be cherry picked to get a trophy if that is your thing.

 

 

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But a S30 will only be competitive in a class or category if built to a set of rules, which for Cams racing the car must comply, not only the class or category rules, but also for general vehicle requirements.

 

To be able to build or modify the car first you need to know what you want to ultimately do. I would build a car that would end up door to door racing completely different to a targa car and different again for sprints and hillclimbs as the rules and requirements are all different for each discipline.

 

For a S30 Zed, the only Cams categories it will be competitive in will be Group Sc for historics or in Prod Sports, where Sc specs falls in line with 2F specs. To be at the front in 2B a S30 isn't going to be anywhere near the front as the L series engine limits it as does the old suspension design, and the fact the body is nearing 50 years old and will be tired.

 

And Cams categories still form the basis for all racing in the country even AASA are more than loosely based on Cams classes and requirements.

 

As soon as you put anything but an L series engine in a S30, you have effectively made an orphan of your car that can't compete in any door to door racing under Cams. At QR you could run in outlaws, but again the car won't be competitive with what is playing there now.

 

Not too many L series cars were quicker than mine up here that actually raced door to door, and for me to go quicker it would was uneconomical, the cost was going to be about the same as what the whole build of my S14 will cost to not go as fast as the S14 will.

 

The L series cars quicker than mine before it got thrown away were Lee and John's stroker engine cars.

 

For hillclimbs or sprints yes a Z can be made to be very competitive in some classes, or outright, but again, as soon as you change from a L series motor, if you want to step up to door to door you have an orphan car that can't be used anywhere other than QR.

 

The beauty of building a car to the rule book is that you can go and race at pretty much any track in Australia at Cams or AASA events and know it will be accepted as it complies. With prodsports, I can race in 3 state championships, a national endure series that includes a one hour race at Bathurst and Phillip Island, I can also run in the 300km events and in any hillclimb or sprint event that takes my fancy. The only series for sports cars I can't run in is the Modern Sports Cars series down south as the plastic S14 doesn't comply with that series rules, but does comply with 2B.

 

In terms of your car Richard, with the V8 filling the hole, apart from sprint events, where can you run? If you just want to do sprints, then more power to you for building a car that is different.

If you want to go door to door anywhere but outlaws at QR, or the 300km races, you have created an orphan in terms of racing, a bloody quick orphan, but an orphan nonetheless.

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Pretty clear to all, well and truly, 260det has very limited knowledge.

He does not race, never has, never been to Prod Sports events, has no dea on how popular they are.

BUT is an excellent keyboard driver.

Most of us on here know what he is like, and his above posts just keep bringing out his endearing qualities.

 

The cars he eschews, ie those that run in SuperSprints that get modified beyond Category requirements, will be fine for sprinting, thats it.

Cars that get built for a Category, be it Group S or Group 2, have far far more potential to not only run in Sprints, but, even better, once a driver has gone from the Basics, to Advanced, can then be used in all manner of events, including Circuit Racing at National level, Australian Hillclimb Championships, Endurance races, ie a great deal more!

 

This "outlaws" racing, refered to, only applies to two Qld tracks, both are under AASA, and any car built to that, just cannot turn up and run at any CAMS race meets.

 

Putting it succinctly, there are those on here that know what they are doing, and most realise this, and, there are others on here, that just dont get it, but take delight in snide comments and digs.

 

 

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