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R31 vs 280zx rear brake calipers


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#1 zzzzed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:43 AM

Some one on a different forum told me that r31 skyline rear calipers are garbage. I have a set of 280zx rear calipers would I have been better off fitting the 280zx calipers?

#2 RLY240

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:09 AM

Some one on a different forum told me that r31 skyline rear calipers are garbage. I have a set of 280zx rear calipers would I have been better off fitting the 280zx calipers?


Hi Mick, can't comment on the 280zx rears as haven't used them but I have R31 rears on mine and they are OK.  There are certainly better options out there but the R31 setup is a straight bolt on with the right brackets.
Roger


#3 nizm0zed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

I think that depends on what exaclty you want the calipers to do?

Eg, trying to use the handbrake to initiate a drift in a R31 skyline is a bit of a futile effort, the stock calipers are garbage and dont handle that abuse well at all, the handbrake adjustment goes out the window and you end up with a park brake that wont hold very well even when parked.
However, for a 'proper' setup (not that stupid drifting) they work quite well.

#4 luvemfast

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:45 AM

but the R31 setup is a straight bolt on with the right brackets.

Aren't 280ZX a bolt on with the right brackets also?  ::)

#5 d3c0y

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

280ZX calipers have MUCH smaller pads i have both at home and compared them and you would be much better going with R31 in my opinion.

#6 zzzzed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:41 PM

What would be a better option up from the r31 then?

#7 benny

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:55 PM

Aren't 280ZX a bolt on with the right brackets also?  ::)



yes but the brackets are $200 from ROBCO

#8 luvemfast

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:08 PM

yes but the brackets are $200 from ROBCO

Regardless the price.
I was highlighting the statement about R31 rears being bolt on.........  with the right brackets.  ;D

Just put some Brembo's on Mick...... they are bolt on........... with the right brackets!  :P

#9 Scoota G

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:44 PM

If you add up the R31 brake conversion on ebay prices including new pads, kits, rotors and having the machining done you'll come in around the $500 mark. You're half way to having an arizona z car rear brake set up delivered.

#10 d3c0y

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

And at the end of the day they dont provide anything substantial in the way of braking power upgrade!

#11 RLY240

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:16 PM

Aren't 280ZX a bolt on with the right brackets also?  ::)


See my post below  :-*

Hi Mick, can't comment on the 280zx rears as haven't used them


What would be a better option up from the r31 then?


This might be a good setup but again, I have no personal experience
http://silverminemot...g-Brake-Kit.htm
Roger

#12 Scoota G

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

Just like these one's. Ceramic pads and sweet looking rotors. Would balance out your front set Mick and you could sell your R31 rear setup to help finance it.

http://www.ebay.com....=item2eac821c74

#13 Gareth. J.

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:54 PM

I have R31's they seem fine on track but if I did the conversion again I'd definately go r32 or 300zx. There's nothing worse than winding caliper pistons in, it sucks. If you want the handbrake to work with the standard cable you have to mount them at 9 or 3 o'clock position... This means you have to remove them from the bracket to bleed properly, very painful.




#14 zzzzed

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:46 PM

I think I will run the r31 calipers for a while as I have already fitted them up. And upgrade later after I have it on the road

#15 Roberto

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:18 PM

I think I will run the r31 calipers for a while as I have already fitted them up. And upgrade later after I have it on the road


Let's not let this thread end here!  Too much yet to clear up.  :P

What other "bolt on" brake upgrades are there for rear?  How well do they stop compared to each other and which have handbrake issues.

Also, which brake combinations do and do not require a proportioning valve?

From what I have understood so far, the list for rear starts with stock drums, 280ZX disk, R31 disk, R32, 300ZX, AZ Car Wilwoods.

Surley R31 disks would be a HUGE improvement over stock drums. I doubt whether you would feel the need to upgrade again Mick.

#16 jamo240

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:20 PM

I put VT Commodore calipers on the rear of mine, but mounted to a VS anchor bracket and backing plate. The anchor and backing plate bolts where the original drum brake backing plate mounted to, and the park brake is a drum set up inside the rotor. The service and park brakes are independent, and i far prefer a drum brake as a park brake...the self energising design is superior to stop your car rolling away compared with a disc setup that is entirely dependent on park brake cable tension to function. I used HSV VS vented rear rotors. I have GT3 Brembo calipers and rotors on the front, and a 280ZX 15/16" master cylinder. Now this was all a fair bit of messing around to do, so not for everyone, but the point of the story is about choosing rear brakes.

Caliper selection is partly piston diameter, partly pad area and mostly your required needs. When i first did the conversion i used the VS calipers, with a 36mm piston. With sticky 235 rubber on the back, these calipers could not stop the tyres...with full rear bias (from the adjustable proportioning valve), I could not lock the rears even if I tried (note locking rears is NOT desirable...it's best for the front to lock first)....the point is I couldn't do it because I didn't have enough braking effort. That is why i went to the 44mm VT calipers. These can easily lock the rears, and hence i can use the proportioning valve to balance the car, and achieve max rear braking effort short of creating lockups.

Pad area is the next consideration. When the pistons clamp the rotor, the same force is transmitted to the rotor regardless of pad area...it is just spread over a greater area (to change the force, you need to change the piston diameter, NOT the pad area). Consequently, provided the pad friction coefficient is the same, different size pads will produce similar braking effort for the same pedal force. What changes is pad heating and wear rate. Small pads concentrate heat more and hence get hotter, and will wear faster. The temperature change also affects their coefficient of friction (depending on the compound, it usually goes up as the pads heat up, and at some temperature they go off, lose their C of F until they overheat, disintegrate and fail.

So...choosing the 'right' caliper is about the application. If you are racing, you need to be able to dissipate a lot more heat than in a road car...so big enough to provide adequate braking effort as well as resist fade for the duration of the race are the constraining factors. For a road car, heat dissipation is a much smaller issue as you can't go fast enough for long enough to repeatedly put heat into the brakes...remember that the heat energy the brakes need to dissipate comes from the engine, so if you're not working the engine hard, you're not working the brakes hard either (unless you're coming down a very long hill). So for road applications, choose brakes that are adequate to stop the rubber you're running, offer good pad selection, adequate size to resist road car fade, and balanced against the master cylinder and front calipers you're running. You don't need super duper brakes on a road car unless you are chasing a higher impression ratio. Sure they look good, but you don't need them and they add cost and weight if you overdo it.

Jamo




#17 zzzzed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:23 AM

Well I would one day like to fit wilwoods to the rear
So I have them front and back.
So do r32 skyline and 300zx rear calipers have hand brake or are they in the drum? Could a hydraulic hand brake be run to combat this issue?

#18 jamo240

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:03 AM

I'm not sure about the configuration of the handbrake on R32's. Hydraulic handbrakes are a race (rally) car thing...from memory, the ADR requires the handbrake to be independent of the service brake, so I don't think a hydraulic handbrake would be legal on a road car. You can use a caliper with an integrated handbrake, but the packaging of the cable can be tricky (but not impossible)...

#19 d3c0y

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:27 AM

R32/Z32 brakes are the same setup as above with the drm backing plate.

Excellent post Jamo lots of good info there. I know I will be doing a similar set up to yours but with Z32 setup. There is an article on hybridz.org on how to do it.

#20 Agno

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

XF falcon rear brakes could also fit as a rear disk conversion and are larger than r31. I dont have much info on them other than that they use the same handbrake arrangement as r31 and only require redrilled disks and modified brackets to fit onto an r31. Using my manbrain and logic it shouldnt be a difficult conversion... right?




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