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L28E to L28ET?


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#1 Baja Burley

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:05 AM

I have just converted my carbed L28 to EFI and didn't pick up as much power as i would've liked, so the turbo option popped into mind!

Ive been reading for a while and it seems a little more complicated than I thought, with mentions of upgrading ECU, injectors, manifold, fuel pump.

Couple of questions, I have F54 block with N42 head, dished pistons. So should handle boost fine.

1. What extra parts do i need to do the conversion start to finish?
2. Is it worth (power vs cost) gathering stock parts for the conversion? or a mixture of aftermarket and stock bits? I want to keep it under 1K. The motor is in a Nissan Patrol (dare i say it) and I want boost in the 1500-5000rpm range? if thats possible
3. Will i need a new wiring loom and ECU?
4. I have a 1500psi fuel pump with the EFI. Im assuming this is enough for turbo?
5. Can the EFI intake manifold be used?

Thanks guys, really appreciate some help!
Luke

#2 Bozo

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

I too am curious about this...


PeterMC???

#3 Zedman240®

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:07 PM

If you don't have any serious money to throw at it, I wouldn't bother going ahead with anything. Multiply it by around 5, and you may get a few bits together. With the fuel pump, that's about 1420 psi too much than what you'll need..

#4 peter mc

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:46 PM

even with the dish piston the n42 will  ping and wont be a good thing there is no cheep way to do it right ... yer you can do it but it wont be reliable and will give trouble all the time , to do it right you need a p90 head and programable ECU 3in exhaust intercooler its not a cheep project

#5 Baja Burley

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:21 PM

If you don't have any serious money to throw at it, I wouldn't bother going ahead with anything. Multiply it by around 5, and you may get a few bits together. With the fuel pump, that's about 1420 psi too much than what you'll need..


haha sorry, fuel pump is 1500lpm fuelmiser? item.

Was the stock turbo setup not very powerful/reliable? in other words not even worth throwing stock parts in? Or are they too scarce to be affordable vs aftermarket?

I am planning on making all the manifolds and exhaust myself. And didnt have my heart set on intercooling either (not ruling it out just didnt think needed for around 8-10psi)

#6 Six_Shooter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:56 PM

What's the current SCR? around 9:1, 9.3:1? That will handle boost just fine. This idea of needing sub 9:1 SCRs shoulc be left in the '60s where they belong.

If you plan it out well, and find good deals, you can turbocharge your current engine for cheap and make it reliable, but you have to select parts that will work well together. This is where research will help immensely.

Yes, the non-turbo intake manifold will work fine with boost. The bonefied turbo manifold has a pop-off valve, which with the way it is used is not necessary IMO, it's not the same as a "blow off valve."

Using the stock exhaust manifold and either the stock turbo or an aftermarket turbo will work fine. The stock turbo should produce boost in the power band you have cited, though, I wouldn't get too hung up on needing to see a particular boost pressure by "XXXX RPM", what's more important is usable power band. Can the chassis and tires take a surge of power at 1500 engine RPM in 1st gear? If not, then you won't be any quicker than you are now.

One of the things that would be high on my list in a conversion like this is a tuneable EFI system, be it pirated from a 300ZX, which seems to be popular, an aftermarket system or pirated from some other car (I run a Delco/GM system on my 240Z), make sure you can tune it for your car, that will make a large difference in end product.

As far as intercooling is concerned, it would be something I would definitely want, even at lower boost pressures. That being said I ran 10 PSIG on my 2.8L for a few years, non intercooled, so it can be done, but you will pick up plenty of power by intercooling the system. So if budget is tight, you can run non-intercooled to start with and add an IC when you can afford it.

#7 peter mc

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:18 PM

mmmm you do live in a different country , our fuel is crap not nearly as good as your fuel , and a n42 head will not take well to a turbo  with even our best fuel , its not the comp ratio that has the problem its the chamber, even  a NA n42 will ping with normal tuning hear so please think about this when you build a turbo setup ....... and give advice to people with limited tuning experience im not saying it can not be done, it can but it will be lots of hard work to get right and if you have to get people to do it it will cost lots to make it right

#8 dat2kman

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

If you cant/wont get a P90, at 53 cc comb chamber vol, and want to go N42, pull the head, and attack the chamber to open it up a little, from the stock 43 cc they are, also, you'll want to fit a MLS ( multi layer steel) laminated head hasket, stock is 1.2 mm, they are available thicker go for thickest possible, ie 3 mm?.
Run low boost, PULP with the octane booster sold by the guy in Mitcham Victoria.
Ypu should??, be ok, i hope!
If it was me, i'd be hunting for a P90, and a thicker mls head gasket, for insurance.

#9 Baja Burley

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

Food for thought, what would happen/fail if I were too mechanically plumb a turbo in to the system i have now, upgrade injectors and exhaust. LEAVING current ecu, manifold, head. Not saying Im planning on it, just to better understand the mod and how it will affect what ive got now..

#10 peter mc

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 10:16 PM

the head gasket will blow first if you are lucky the ring lands will crack due to pinging and the engine will fail  ...
as boost increases timing must be retarded and fuel must increase this must happen or the engine will fail

#11 Six_Shooter

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:47 AM

mmmm you do live in a different country , our fuel is crap not nearly as good as your fuel , and a n42 head will not take well to a turbo  with even our best fuel , its not the comp ratio that has the problem its the chamber, even  a NA n42 will ping with normal tuning hear so please think about this when you build a turbo setup ....... and give advice to people with limited tuning experience im not saying it can not be done, it can but it will be lots of hard work to get right and if you have to get people to do it it will cost lots to make it right


Rubbish...

You assume that the fuel I run is any better that what you have available to you, based on what?

I run pump gas, usually 91 octane, sometimes I will run less, just to prove to myself it can be done without issue.

If your fuel was so bad, NONE of the turbo combinations would run well.

Most any detonation issues can be cured by tune, only extremely poorly designed combustion chambered heads would need any work, and as far as I'm aware NONE of the L-series heads fall in this category.

On top of that fuel "quality" seems to be purely speculation based, with no one actually performing any bonefied tests of who has the best grade fuel. It is reported that my neighbours to the south have worse grade fuel than we do, but I see combinations that run just fun on the same grade of fuel.

If I listened to everyone that told me "it can't be done" I wouldn't have half the things done to any of my cars, or other projects that I have and work great.

#12 Six_Shooter

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:57 AM

Food for thought, what would happen/fail if I were too mechanically plumb a turbo in to the system i have now, upgrade injectors and exhaust. LEAVING current ecu, manifold, head. Not saying Im planning on it, just to better understand the mod and how it will affect what ive got now..


It depends on a few things, though I would definitely NOT recommend doing it that way.

I'm assuming you're using an L28 ECU, which has no closed loop feedback, just tables based on airflow from AFM and RPM.

The first thing that will happen is with the larger injectors you'll be running fat (rich) at idle and part throttle cruise, causing issues with washing down cylinders, fuel in the oil (reducing viscosity), possibly hard to start, poor fuel economy and annoying other drivers with your too rich condition.

The way people have used OEM ECUs (Not L28 ECU that I'm aware of however), is to retain the stock injectors and use an "FMU" AKA Fuel Managment Unit, also named RRFPR, Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, to me both names are a bit misleading. How these work is to pinch off the return line of the fuel system, as boost pressure increases, raising the fuel pressure usually by rates of 8 or 10:1 (8 or 10 PSIG of fuel pressure for every 1 pound of boost), this only seems to work well on low boost systems, 5 to 8 PSIG depending on the engine, and using more modern EFI system that has closed loop feedback. The added fuel pressure will deliver more fuel for the same injector pulse width, but without actually trying it, or following a recipe of someone that has done that very same thing on the same engine, it's a guess at best of how well it will work, without trying it. I've installed a couple systems that used these parts, but the end result was always a compromise.

In all honesty, the very next upgrade I would be looking at, would be a tunable ECU, such as Megasquirt, Delco (What I'm running), 300ZX with Nistune, or more expensive options. You can pick up plenty of power, and driveability just in a proper tune, especially going to a system that can control both fuel and spark timing. The system, if selected properly, can be carried over to a turbo application as well.

#13 peter mc

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:58 AM

its not the octane rating 91 or other we use a different rating Mon and Ron  ,our fuel is not the same and you have know idea about how it behaves  yes he can run low boost but then he will say turbos are crap and not worth the the work ,
do it right and they  are so much fun ,do it like some do and you will be fixing it all the time

PS the reason you don't see the n42s problems over there is your fuel is better than our fuel , the chamber pings NA with little lode , and timing , Nissan built the p90 for a reason ..
a good rule for tuning if you have to retard more than 12deg of timing to control detonation your combo is wrong  and with a n42 with a bar of boost this can not be done with our pump fuel, 

#14 Pedro

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:47 AM

This has been done quite a bit i the states, not as much locally.

heaps of guys have done L28E to L28ET on hybridz.org. I would join there and you will find everything you need to know.

Parts wise - you can pickup everything you need from ebay or hybridz classifieds from zx turbos. There is half a dozen 280zxt's being wrecked at any point in time and all the bits are there and they are generally cheap. shipping probably being the deciding factor in cheapness.

Power wise if you wanted to 'get started' a standard L28ET computer is a good start for a 2.8 but depends what your power goals are. These would be $50 or so on the forums, bundled with everything else you need. Again, can only handle about 20-30% increase in power over the stock 180hp before megasquirt or aftermarket ECU is needed.






#15 Six_Shooter

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:09 AM

its not the octane rating 91 or other we use a different rating Mon and Ron  ,our fuel is not the same and you have know idea about how it behaves  yes he can run low boost but then he will say turbos are crap and not worth the the work ,
do it right and they  are so much fun ,do it like some do and you will be fixing it all the time

PS the reason you don't see the n42s problems over there is your fuel is better than our fuel , the chamber pings NA with little lode , and timing , Nissan built the p90 for a reason ..
a good rule for tuning if you have to retard more than 12deg of timing to control detonation your combo is wrong  and with a n42 with a bar of boost this can not be done with our pump fuel,


Who is deciding this "fuel being better in one area than another"? What makes you think that the fuel I run is so much better than what you run? Octane does have a large factor in burn rate, and resistance to detonation. So far all I read about that is conjecture, no facts. I have a feeling this goes back to "your HP" being different than "our HP." :facepalm:

Also who needs a full bar of boost (15 PSIG)? I'm running about 10 PSIG right now and it's more than what I need in an S30, most people that ran similar boost numbers with a tuned combination will likely agree. That's the key here, proper tuning, running low boost with a properly tuned set-up will run better than a poorly tuned high boost engine.

#16 nizm0zed

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:29 AM

I was allways of the beleif that petrol had an international SAE rating system that was used to grade it, regardless of its geographical location.
Much like oil has an international SAE rating that is applied to it (along with the Euro equiv that i cant remember)

Edit: Learning for everyone....

"In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the octane measure on the pump is the Research Octane Number (RON): but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is an average of the RON and the Motor Octane Number (MON),or (R+M)/2. Because of the 10 point difference noted above this means that the octane in the United States will be about 5 points lower than the same fuel in Europe and Australia : 87 octane fuel, would be RON 92 in Europe."
http://en.wikipedia....i/Octane_rating

#17 PZG302

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:53 PM

I was allways of the beleif that petrol had an international SAE rating system that was used to grade it, regardless of its geographical location.
Much like oil has an international SAE rating that is applied to it (along with the Euro equiv that i cant remember)

Edit: Learning for everyone....

"In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the octane measure on the pump is the Research Octane Number (RON): but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is an average of the RON and the Motor Octane Number (MON),or (R+M)/2. Because of the 10 point difference noted above this means that the octane in the United States will be about 5 points lower than the same fuel in Europe and Australia : 87 octane fuel, would be RON 92 in Europe."
http://en.wikipedia....i/Octane_rating


So therefore, the 91 octane rated fuel from the states would be about 96 or so here, the equivalent of our premium fuels on a good day at the pump.

#18 Enzo

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:05 PM

Hi Guys,
          Everything you wanted to know about L28 Turbos. :D


Sorry. I couldn't resist this.
David

#19 pauly_adams

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:07 PM

What you need to do is lock your dizzy so it can get no mechanical advance then upgrade your objectors you can use rb 20det ones you just need to attach hoses to them with good clamps, next you will want to run a catch can or surge tank for your fuel and a secondary pump this is not nessersery but there is no baffles on our fuel tanks , then set your timing to 16 degrees  and away you go the max boost I would run with this setup would be 10psi as injectors can't take much more nor can the timing if you want more boost you will need 555 cc injectors after market ecu and intercooler. Hope this helps also you should run this setup with 98 Ron fuel.
Cheers pauly

#20 peter mc

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

in the US the same L28 will run 5-6 deg more than hear as there fuel burns slower than our fuel and i do know this as i have been there and tuned
and this is all i do all day guys i tune turbo cars i do have half a clue . all I'm trying to say is it will give you the shivers as it will give so much trouble if you half ass it




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