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HELP! RB25DET into 240z


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#1 240zrb

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 06:12 PM

Ok, I know it can be done, know what I need, and so on:-)

What I was wondering was: Are you guys in AU allowed to use the rb25det (or even better rb26dett) in a 240z????

And, do you think Nissan AU would say (in writing) that using an rb25det (or rb26dett) in a 240z shell is ok?

And last, anyone got any good contacts in Nissan AU? (or at least an e-mail adr for nissan au...)

I live in Norway, and the car inspector guy says: if Nissan AU says it's ok, it's OK with me.... :-) (Nissan Norway, won't say a word.... just as well, they got minimal knowledge of the s30 :? .....)

ANY help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!!

Best regards from Snowy Norway
240z(rb)
Svein-Ove

#2 JP

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 09:59 PM

Nissan does not have any engineering in Australia anymore, they left about 15 years ago when the government decided to stop protecting the local industry....but thats another story.

Anyway, I am not sure how it is in Norway, but in Australia it is up to the government controlled road authority to determine what can legally be driven on the roads, not the manufacturers such as Nissan.

Legally, we are suppose to take our S30's with RB engines to a designated Automotive engineer licensed by the road authority to check safety and emissions.

Good luck.

#3 240zrb

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:15 PM

Well, it's kind of the same here, BUT the government controlled road authority HERE, will approve the use of the rb25det (or even the rb26dett).... IF I can present them a letter from NISSAN (importers) that states that the S30 chassi will withstand the power of the engine...

SO if I could get a letter like that from anywhere in the world, the government controlled road authority here, would be satisfied! And I would be HAPPY :)

If there is any chance of getting a letter like that from the guys doing the checking of you cars (an behalf of the government controlled road authority) I might even be able to use that:-) Anyone got any contacts? It would not hurt to ask one of them...

Thanx:-) :?

#4 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:27 PM

Forge a letter from Nissan?

#5 zedevan

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:44 PM

i would of thought a stock frame couldn't really be said to be able to handle the power from either of those engines?

hell, my stock diff mounts have lastest less than a year with a stock motor lol

unfortunately i think if someone does the modifcations needed for the engine to suit and has gotten it engineered, and someone has done an exact copy of the same install, that his car can be covered by the same thing? as woudlnt they want proof of hte type to steel used for the mounts etc? i know this doesn't really effect you as u just want a letter so the government can blame someone if u kill urself somehow! do you have any other way u can get around this? as i dont see anyone writing a letter to cover it...the closest thing to convince someone that nissan thinks its ok is by using factory z31 rb mounts?

#6 JP

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:49 PM

I dont think any engineer will write you such a letter without inspecting the car themselves as, correctly or incorrectly they may beleive they are legally implicating themselves with something that is out of their control.

I doubt there is any data or a number value of how much torque the chassis will take, but if you seam weld the chassis joins and install a weld in roll cage, I think any logical persosn will see that it will be stiffer than a lot of more modern cars.

However you can try your luck if you wish: http://www.vicroads....ficatesVASS.htm

#7 nat0_240_chevZ

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:15 PM

no real easy way around it im afraid.

just install the motor gearbox etc.

seam/stitchweld the whole front end, add strut braces dont worry bout the cage,
as far as making mounts dont worry as it seems the rb's drop straight onto stock s30's but the motor is forwared by 2-3 inches, aslo the treans mount hole need to elongated, otherwise to drop in with the motor against the fiirewall will need too look at mounts, Oh and sump regardless but you ca still buy these from nissan, z31 200zr sump.

then once its in try your luck with an engineer, motor reg, explain that displacement is only 100-200cc bigger but with a stock turbo.

Then under their instruction fix/upgrade what they want you to then u should be ok, as far as approval goes in my state only thing the engineers are worried about is 'torsional rigidity', 'stopping power', and suspension condition and stability. Most emphasis is on the first item then the 2nd.

But here if they break your chassis whilst performing the torsional rigidty test then they will write it off on the spot.

Nothing a square section slid up the front rails wont fix how ever,

as for a letter, id say try forging one, as thats all youll really be able to obtain i believe.

nato

#8 240zrb

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 07:50 PM

I've desided to try to just get a letter stating something like: Yes, in australia it IS possible to get approval for using the rb in a S30..... (if you just make this or that mod to the....)

That way any person willing to make such a letter will have his back covered! He doesn't say OK, go ahead, YOUR car will take the power... He simply says that in AU sometimes rb's get approved in S30...

I'll try the Vic roads guys, don't hurt to ask :roll:

Best regards
240zrb

#9 sco_aus

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 01:00 PM

Well the simple answer is Nissan brought out the 200ZR which is a RB20DET Z31 in Japan, which means the chassis and engine have already been made in a Nissan factory together, so I would think that Nissan would not have any dramas sending you a letter.  Just gotta find the right person at nissan to do it.
My gearbox came straight up through the original hole and the engine is very close to the firewall, I used all of the 200ZR mounting gear, so its actually pretty easy.

#10 zedevan

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 04:57 PM

so are you running the 200zr sump and engine mounts? what did you do about the gearbox mount? have you got any pictures of the engine to firewall distance? if it was mounted further back would there be an issue with the gear lever hole?  i saw one on ur site thingy but its cropped and not the best angle for it lol

the more i'm thinking about it, the more...logical an rb swap is over a jz possibly.  Also what happened regarding getting ur car engineered/registered in vic?

#11 sco_aus

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 05:09 PM

The gearbox mount was custom, but it resembled that of a 200ZR one from what i have heard.  The engine mounts just bolted to the original mount point, the gear shifter just lined up perfectly, I cant get any pics atm cos im 2 hours from the car and the engine is out for a rebuild.  Im using the 200ZR sump and the only problem i had was it was slightly to low and ocasionally bumped on the steering rack, so i spaced the engine about 3 mm higher and it fixed the problem, although there is a slight dent in the sump now (not a problem though)

I got mine engineered and registered in Canberra even when i was in Vic, so i cant really help, but if you do logical things like upgrading brakes and wheels, then it shouldnt be a problem.


#12 sco_aus

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 03:01 PM

Found an older picture, but it shows how far back the engine is mounted, it leaves a lot of room infront of the engine and i mean a lot :P
The wiring and all the piping was a bit messy but you should be able to tell how far back it is, im doing a four point weigh when the engine is back in (to get the right spring rate) and ill let everyone know what balance ratio it has given me.
Posted Image

#13 zedevan

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 08:52 PM

looks good to me. how much is a manifold so the air doesn't run over the top of hte engine?

i went in a mates sr20det powered 180sx on the weekend and i'm inching for a turbo car :D he was saying that rb's are a higher reving engine and some sr's produce more torque? that doesn't make complete sense to me though

#14 Azon

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:14 PM

Yep turbo cars are addictive  :/ The Rb are higher revving because of shorter stroke - 86mm/86mm square bore/stroke for SR20 vs 78/70 for RB20 and 86/72 for RB25. But torque of SR20 is only greater than that of a stock RB20 thats about it - other RBs have obviously a displacement advantage over SR.

#15 Azon

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:17 PM

Found an older picture, but it shows how far back the engine is mounted, it leaves a lot of room infront of the engine and i mean a lot :P
The wiring and all the piping was a bit messy but you should be able to tell how far back it is, im doing a four point weigh when the engine is back in (to get the right spring rate) and ill let everyone know what balance ratio it has given me.
Posted Image


Did you have to do any chassis mods to get your car engineered? I am just really worried about twisting my chassis with the new torque :/

#16 sco_aus

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 11:24 PM

No not at all, remember these engine mounts were made for the RB20 onto this chassis, they wouldnt have released it if it wasnt safe and although the 25 is a different engine and I do have a lot more power than stock, it was over engineered (if theres such a thing) and I havent had a problem at all and have checked the mounts and chassis area of it all and there isnt a problem.
At the moment, I reckon if your going to do an RB conversion, then do the RB25 because they have come down in price a lot since i did it and they are easily the best bang for buck.  I know a guy with a RB20 in a 240 here in Canberra and even after some work, still had nothing on me at stock.  Im pretty sure its only a 2k purchase difference cost between them.
end rant :D

#17 Azon

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 10:29 PM

From I understand the Nissan never made mounts to fit Rb into S30, only Z31 which are a completely different chassis? But nonetheless I am glad to hear you are not experiencing any plastic defomation in the chassis - do you have a a half - cage and is your chassis spot welded at all?

#18 sco_aus

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 06:42 AM

Yeh your right, they are a different chassis, my bad.  Still, they arent weak.  I dont have a cage (yet :D) nor do i have any spot welding (yet :D).

#19 240zrb

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 05:36 PM

Thanx for all your help, I got a couple of "yes, in AU the 240z sometimes get approved with RB25DET" e-mails. AND this got the tech inspectors to change their mind:-) So now they say OK, go ahead, do the rb25det swap:-)

OH, and they appoved my 8x17 and 10x17 wheels also!  ;D

#20 zedevan

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 07:20 PM

goodwork, an rb swap is looking more and more attractive to me as i know i will never regret it, where at some point i might regret putting in a toyota motor, and since i'm not going to b chasing massive power it doesnt' really matter which is the better engine, although faster for cheaper is always a good thing...




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