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Need for a locked section, for our own security/privacy


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#41 MaygZ

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 03:13 AM

We all seem to be focusing on locking sections or restricting access until a financial contribution is made or number of quality posts is reached.  Surely what we are really concerned about is security; not being exposed to all the nameless, faceless trolls of the interweb.  This could be changed by having a password emailed to an email address on sign-up.  I'm not an IT guru (a gimp really) but I've seen many other forums and sites run this system.

I know I could be fred.flinstone@dodgyashell.com if my motives were sinister.  Maybe it could be restricted so no hotmail/gmail/yahoo addresses (I'm sure there are more dodgy free domains - I'm not saying everyone that uses these domains is dodgy, but you know what I mean).

Again I don't know much (anything) about setting up or running a site, but this could be done, right?  It sounds easy?  ;D

Having said that, if it is deemed appropriate to 'lock' a section, then I would support locking the build threads.

I agree with DAW(date of birth).  Had I had to pay to get into this site, I wouldn't have joined.  I may well have bought an old Capri and gone down that path - buy British, buy bad!!

Rev, I miss you.  Other than reducing my blood pressure (by cutting down my Salty intake), I'm a lone ranger for peace, respect and love in a world of misunderstanding, sarcasm (not easy in printed form) and general sledging.  I can't do it all on my own  .....  I must have more formula .... please come back 

#42 nizm0zed

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:44 AM

I really hate forums that block all free email sites, like yahoo/hotmail ect.
I use Yahoo for my email, i have for around 12 years now.
I dont have another email option open to me, other than the one that comes with my broadband plan, that is a complete pig to use and i never remember the password anyway.
When i find a forum that blocks those email addresses straight off, i never bother with it again, i just go elsewhere.
Im sure im not the only one.

I dont think we need to lock the place down and be paranoid, I think we need to EACH be smart about what we post.
Same as in public, you dont go around announcing to the world in general that you have $1000 in your wallet and lots of expensive things at home.
thats just asking to be robbed.

I do agree that the projects/members rides section should be available only to members signed in, but lets face it, if you really want to be an ass and find someone to rip off, its not hard to get a dodgy email and maybe make a $10 contribution to seem 'legit' while you plan your heist.
Lets face it, if peter was working on more common things, Eg RB skyline, Commodore or falcon bits ect, do you think he would have been able to track anything? It could be anywhere, with anyone.
At that point, a bit of time and a $10 outlay for the theif to make $1000 on some stolen parts would be nothing, same as if they are willing to give up a few evenings to case the joint.

I have to ask, do you really know me?
I could be the head of an international car theft ring.
I think most of you would probably take my word as honest seeing as i have been around for a while and racked up a decent amount of posts.
but really, of EVERYONE on the forum, can you really say that of them?
Unfortunately that sort of paranoid will end up destroying everything, so lets not end up down that path.
If you really need to give out secure information, do it via PM, over the phone or in person.
fortunately for our small group, most of us know each other or have met in person, so its a bit more secure.

to recap, be smart about what you post.
when you take picures, make sure you dont have valuables, targets or identifying locations in the background.
Dont take pictures of your security systems, or theft preventatives.
Treat the majority of people on the internet as untrustworthy.

#43 Six_Shooter

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:41 AM

Well said nizm0zed!

I too have used a free mail service account for around 12 or 13 years, and don't have another option.

#44 daw260z

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:51 AM


I agree with DAW(date of birth).


??? Time to add my date of birth to my profile I think

#45 Bigfella

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:17 PM

I'm not going to bang on about this subject too much - other members that I'm in agreeance with, have already posted far more then I could be bothered typing!
Peter's theft would appear an isolated case with circumstances involved.

I still believe this forum should remail 'open' EXCEPT for the Members Project's section. I feel that the cars in that section may become targets of theft or the like & should be closed to anyone who has a post count of - say - less than 20 for example.
Leave the Classifieds section open, as you never know when a bargain will be posted from a person who has never been heard of before...

My 2c.

+1 with the big man
Not that I have anything worth steeling as of yet, But there will come a time as the car progresses. I would be hesitant to post picks of new parts now.

I vote for locking the journals.

Matty O


#46 saxon

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:03 PM

Let me start by saying I hope the thief rots in hell.

but my opnion is that this proposition wont be very effective and will damage the forum.

I think there are 3 ways to prevent theft of your car and parts:

Make sure no body knows about it
Make people dont know your address
Get security/insurance

humans are vain creatures, and the reason we want cool cars is to look at them and drive them and enjoy them, but also to show them off. If you dont want to post pics on websites detailing the progress of your car for the public to see, then you might as well lock it in the garage forever cause i gurantee you the shady alcoholic/junky/gambling addict neighbour is more likely to try and rob you than someone scoping you out on a website. For one, the neighbour knows where you live.

Just very careful who gets your address. And get security. And live your life without fear of these scum bags and keep showing off your beautiful cars to the public, and keep making people jealous that their 80k european sports cars cant match the raw sexiness of a zed.

Also, i have seen many good forums become rubbish because of elitist attitudes (members only posting and reading). Whether intended or not, outsiders will see it as elitist and be unwilling to become part of your community. And I doubt a determined theif illing to travel 100 ks would be put off by it.

#47 sco_aus

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:32 PM

I also believe a locked area wouldn't really prevent it, they would just sign up, but it would put people off from joining, I still haven't joined a lot of the other Australian forums because of this, it just puts me off, like I am not welcome or something.  I guess the onus should be on the person for their own security as much as it sucks.  I'm sure Gav has enough to do.  I do feel sorry for you losing your stuff mate, that really sucks, I hate that shit.

#48 luvemfast

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:53 AM

I think people are getting a bit distracted......

I feel, as others have stated, that the only section that would really need it is the members projects. Its not a kneejerk reaction as its been brought up in the past and whe theft has just highlighted that maybe it is necessary.
The rest of the forum would be free and open.
That isn't going to discourage new members signing up.

Is Gav on holidays or something? Or just deep in thought?

#49 sco_aus

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:04 PM

That still doesn't change anything, it takes all of a couple of minutes to sign up and they can access the same information you and I can...  So I repeat my previous statement, it really is everyone's own responsibility to keep their information private, Gav has enough on his plate.

#50 Six_Shooter

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:17 PM

That still doesn't change anything, it takes all of a couple of minutes to sign up and they can access the same information you and I can...  So I repeat my previous statement, it really is everyone's own responsibility to keep their information private, Gav has enough on his plate.


This has been my point all along...

#51 gav240z

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:06 PM

Is Gav on holidays or something? Or just deep in thought?


Bit of both, just saw this thread today. Have been on Holiday in Greece for the past week. I will give this thread a serious read tomorrow when I'm fresh and focused.

#52 chris240

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:01 PM

haha...how can anyone focus after holidaying around the Greek islands  8)
IMHO I dont think a locked section is warranted, given whats transpired the last week or so. thats my 5 cents.

#53 D.O.G

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:11 PM

Guys,
Another site that I post on occasionally has a "private forum" section that isn't visible until you have x number of posts.

I browse some sites as time permits at work. Because I don't bother logging in, as a guest I often can't view photos or attachments and that can get frustrating.
The beauty of an invisible section is that a newbie or guest doesn't know it's there, so hopefully won't get peeved by being locked out.
I don't know if this site supports that sort of thing, but it's an idea if you feel the need for security.

Pete

#54 gav240z

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:36 AM

There is lots of valid points raised in here and I'm almost sure to miss addressing half of it in my first reply. I'm kind of glad I was away on holiday because it's really given the community a chance to voice many concerns issues and get a good mix of responses. I fear had I been able to reply sooner perhaps many would have remained quiet and allowed me to speak on their behalf.

So if I were to summarise a few things:

1. There is some concern as to weather or not the forum software has the capability to provide some form of "locked" or exclusive section. I actually think the forum software is capable. But the workflow for such a locked section is another issue. For example do we lock it by membership status? i.e donating members only? My opinion on this is that it doesn't really provide much more security to me. If someone was willing to drive 100km out of Melbourne and case the joint then donating a 5er to get access to a member only section is not really an effective form of security.

We could manually approve users to a section based on critertia:
eg: number of posts, verified by other members, providing certain details like chassis no., licence no. , address details etc.. but then we introuduce a manual review process which is more overhead for myself and moderators.

I also don't like the idea of creating a "clicky" group and creating a division in the site between the newbies and the long standing members who might snub the newcomers. I've seen and experienced this before and that is really something I've tried hard to prevent here.

2.  There is the issue of what's available online. To give an example I was looking at wheels for sale in DriftWorks forum for my RX7 and I noticed a shop name in the background of the picture of the car that had the wheels currently on it. A quick search on Google Maps and I was able to streetview into that exact location. Pretty scary huh? In fact I have been able to locate other RX-7's on Streetview just by doing a bit of explorations of various areas on Google Maps.

When I went to look at my current RX-7 the previous owner met me at a public car park of a shopping center. I was a bit annoyed because I wanted to view the car from cold start, but obviously giving your address to someone you don't know is a bit of a concern. When signing the papers for the car the previous owner told me he was very cautious of what he posts online (we were talking about IT in general as we were both in the field). He had obfuscated his number plates in the original classified AD.

So I do think some of the onus here needs to be put back onto the poster. If you share certain information you need to realise ANYONE can see it. Having a private section may prevent some "would be" thieves but the really determined scum will still probably find a way to get this information. As I say if someone is willing to go to the effort of breaking into someone's place and going to all effort and taking the risk of being caught then a few clicks of a mouse is not going to stop anyone.

To truly have your privacy in this day and age you should probably send letters via the post. Since all digital information can be read and is being read by various organisations. Even your mobile phone calls and SMS can be read easily and has been. Look at Rupert Murdoch phone hacking scandal as of late.
http://www.google.ie...doch phone hack

To perhaps divert for a second, social media is a good and bad thing. Look at the revolutions going on in the Middle East right now. Sites like Wikileaks are the catalyst for this. Leaking information about Government corruption. All this classified information has been made public and sites like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube have allowed people to connect and organise protests.

On the other hand "heroes in their hotted up rides" often referred to as Hoons by the Australian media have been prosecuted and caught out due to posting videos of their idiocy on Youtube.

It works both ways.

I think the best way forward here is to create a stick post on the forum that helps members stay safe and reduce the risks.

3. Open Vs Closed Community

I'm all in favor of being Open. It is what allowed this site to grow in the first place and just because someone is a guest or a forum lurker does not make them a thief. As other have stated having to sign in to view pictures / threads is a major PITA. There is also 1 other consideration and that is search engines. They find and index information when it's open. Locking it down will result in search engines being blocked and unable to find information. This seriously restricts traffic to the site from search engines.

Blocking various email addresses / hosting services is also a PITA for genuine users. I do make an effort to block various hosts that continuously deliver spammers to the site though and these are often fairly obvious and rarely delivery genuine users.

As many also stated they joined this site due to the open nature of it and I think we have more to loose by being closed off.

4. Sending PM's is good, but even I can't guarantee your information is not going to be accessible by a 3rd party who wants it bad enough. If someone were to hack the site they could potentially read anything stored in the database. Same thing happened to Sony recently when hackers managed to get credit card details from playstation users.

http://www.google.ie...edit card theft

Bottom line is nothing is 100% safe so the best protection is to be cautious with the information you post to any website not just Auszcar.

5. It seems from what I've read that Peter's thief was a previous customer, an Auszcar Guest (we haven't confirmed member) and possibly was following him on Facebook. So it could be the info on this forum or a combination of all 3 that led him to find Peter's place.

So am I ruling out a private section. Not yet - I do think it could work but I'm not sure exactly how we could regulate it or ensure we only get genuine members in that section?

If you have a member rides section then I think it would pay to review what you have posted in terms of how that information may be used. I think we can get the community to put some best practices together on how to protect yourselves. I do believe 99.9% of our community are the good apples it's just the 0.01% we have to watch for.

I know myself that I will be reviewing information I've posted online about myself (and do from time to time). But in light of this event I may edit some information I've posted to other websites in the past.

You can never be too careful. For example I'll never sign into my online banking from a computer I don't know because of a device called a key logger.




For many other scams see Scam Watch from the BBC and The Real Hustle both great shows that demonstrate how easy it is to get something if you want it bad enough.

I think this thread is a good debate and I'm open to hearing more opinions / suggestions. The last thing I want is for members such as Peter to stop sharing such great detail / information with the rest of us.





#55 daw260z

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 09:50 AM

He had obfuscated his number plates in the original classified AD.

Is there any free software that could be linked in the sticky to allow members to do this?

2.  There is the issue of what's available online. To give an example I was looking at wheels for sale in DriftWorks forum for my RX7 and I noticed a shop name in the background of the picture of the car that had the wheels currently on it. A quick search on Google Maps and I was able to streetview into that exact location. Pretty scary huh? In fact I have been able to locate other RX-7's on Streetview just by doing a bit of explorations of various areas on Google Maps.



I recently search a landline number, via google, for a 260z that was advertised in WA. Although the name with the ad was different to the listing I was able to find the house and see the 260z in the drive on google maps. The bad part is that the owner has been away for the past two months and anyone could do what I did and take advantage.

Maybe sticking to using mobile numbers would be a good idea. Might be harder to track.

I'm no expert, just a few ideas i had.

#56 Six_Shooter

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:06 PM

Is there any free software that could be linked in the sticky to allow members to do this?


Yeah, Paint. I know it comes with every installation of Windoze on this side of the pond since Windoze ME...

I recently search a landline number, via google, for a 260z that was advertised in WA. Although the name with the ad was different to the listing I was able to find the house and see the 260z in the drive on google maps. The bad part is that the owner has been away for the past two months and anyone could do what I did and take advantage.

Maybe sticking to using mobile numbers would be a good idea. Might be harder to track.

I'm no expert, just a few ideas i had.


While you can see the car on Google maps, that doesn't mean that it is still in the same location. The pictures are usually 6 months old at least.

#57 gav240z

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:08 AM

Just want to reiterate that I haven't ruled out a locked / members only section.

However I see 2 issues:

1. How do we manage / qualify a member and allow them access to this section?
2. Is the purpose of such as section for security? Or is there some other need for such a section?

In terms of security I think we can address this via education and helping members stay safe by being a little more cautious with the information they present in a forum.

I know a couple of members feel strongly about a member only section and I hope my post above doesn't come across as "no because I say so".

#58 luvemfast

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:52 AM

1. How do we manage / qualify a member and allow them access to this section?
2. Is the purpose of such as section for security? Or is there some other need for such a section?

1. A certain amount of posts? I'm a member of European Car Club Australia, and they have a 50 post rule.
Perhaps a verified email address and details? Not really a fan of making peeps pay for this, but donating is still encouraged.

2. It is security now, moreso than before. But just a little bit more privacy for our investments/passions.
As has been highlighted


#59 FLEXZED

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:58 AM

1. A certain amount of posts? I'm a member of European Car Club Australia, and they have a 50 post rule.
Perhaps a verified email address and details? Not really a fan of making peeps pay for this, but donating is still encouraged.

2. It is security now, moreso than before. But just a little bit more privacy for our investments/passions.
As has been highlighted


+1

#60 BobsYourUncle

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:10 AM

I don't like post count... how many posts does Gordon Dobie have?




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