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Z Triple Carb Options - Weber, Mikuni, Solex & Dellorto


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#1 Toecutter

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 12:38 AM

I?m interested in a set of triples for my car so I?ve done some quick research tonight. To date this is the info I have on my options:

- Dellortos were made in Italy, hence can be found on allot of italian machinery dating back to the 70's. Lancias, Alfa, Ferrari, Lambos. That sort of stuff.

- Webers were made in Germany (maybe elsewhere under license) and can be found on allot of German Machinery. Porsche, VW, Early BMW. And Also Ferrari / Lambo etc even tho they weren't German.

- Solex carbs originally made in Italy come in two version. Solex was a tuner and sold packages. Later, Solex designed their own carbs. Took the best features of both the Webers and Mikunis. Are many parts interchangable? They were sued by Weber and Mikuni for patent infringements, stealing designs, etc. and eventually stopped selling their carbs. Did Mukini buy out Solex and make the same carb under the Mukini name????

-Mikunis were made in Japan. So they were the Jap performance Carbs. Found on the Jap performance cars of the era.

Many people have different views re tuning with quite a few I?ve read saying the webers and Solex are hardest with issues of temp changes throwing out tuning. I know Ash has a set of Webers with decent linkages with no problems. I've read many good threads on the Dellorto's and they seem to be well priced with a couple of sets I've found going for the $500 mark on e-bay. Advise on the others?

I've always been of the impression installing triple carbs on a fairly stock motor would'nt be much benefit over well tuned SU's apart from the great sound of intake suction. If I was to install a set of 40mm triples on an L28 with a mild cam and limited head work how much of a performance gain can I expect compared to using SU's with well matched needles?

For a road driven L28 I?ve read 40?s will be a good choice in all above!? Should I buy the three carbs minus manifold, how easy is it to source one and how much? Would all of the listed carbs bolt on to the one intake manifold?

Advise on what I can expect to pay for a used set up inc inlet manifold? How much can I expect to pay to rebuild a set of say Solex carbs should they need it and which carbs tend to be more expensive to rebuild?

Please feel free to advise on any other issues re any of the carbs above, ie parts availability, performance etc

Gav, are you going to instal the mikuni's you bought on your current motor?

Guys, please set me straight on any of the info above should it be inaccurate as this thread based on a quick late night search on this topic!

Thanks,
Sulio

#2 zr240

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 07:09 AM

I bolted a set of triple 40m delautos on my std l26 motor some yrs ago and it makes a heap of difference from the su's!

Ive said it before and I will say it again. If you have good quality linkages and the triples were set up properly (correct jets) and they have nice tight shafts then they dont go out of tune.

in both my triple 45 webers and triple 40 delautos They were setup prperly to start with so the only maintance was checking the linkages.

on the cost side I think you would be looking at from 1k for a set of triples and manifold. THen you would still need to make sure they are in good condition as alot of the sets I see on ebay look very rough.

If I were selling my triple 45s seperate from the race car I would expect to get 1500-1800 for them.


Thanks
Ashley

#3 twosixty

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 07:57 AM

I've also been on the hunt for a set of triples for a while now. Mikuni did make solex for some time, thats why some are branded Mikuni - Solex. I've pretty much ruled out solex as I haven't found a supply of replacement parts locally.

This leaves dellorto & weber. Dellortos have a diaphragm accelerator pump whereas the weber design uses a piston. Apparently this means the dellorto has better throttle response, especially down low. The last sidedraft weber (DCOM came after the popular DCOE) has been said to have "copied" the dellorto design. Anyways it being the last designed you would assume it was the most refined.

Webers are MUCH more tunable than dellortos, but the way I see it this means you really have to get it right.

Yeah, I keep hearing that linkage is a very important, requiring quality parts & setup.

I've been told that even though parts look similar, parts are not interchangable between makes...

Manifolds, in AUS I can only find (new) Redline manifolds www.redlineauto.com.au
who you can buy through zspares, allzparts etc for about $350 not including linkage.

Now some questions: Is it easier to incorporate the linkage using a cable or the standard accelerator rod?
Ive heard of people having trouble with the vacuum advance when using triples, how, why, what can you do to remedy?

Thanks
Luke

#4 tattoo_ink

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:46 AM

hey sulio, have you checked these out on ebay mate ?

http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem

ive had 45 delortos & 45 webers and 2inch su's on the same engine 265hemi, (dont hold it against me) lol, years ago and there was a big difference from the su's to the webers in responsiveness and fuel consumption ! but the delortos where marginaly better again i recon ! i have to agree - the linkages and jets must be good quality ! youve gota love the sound of a nicely tuned set of webbers or delortos though ! :twisted:
i think theres 48 changeable parts all up in the 3 carbs so dont get them off another style of engine and think youve just gota change a cupla jets ! 15years ago it cost a grand to do on my old hemi ! good luck -chris.

#5 dalee

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:34 AM

jacking thread ;opps

hemi motor sounds familiar, I got a magazine during the week from the 80s bout a turbo 4.6 hemi in a 240z, may be its the same car. i'll find the mag and post up a scaned copy, and u can see if its your old rig.

#6 tattoo_ink

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:48 AM

nah sorry dalee, it was in a '65 ap-6 val. i did end up turbo and injection on it in the long run (544hp@ 5800) great fun ! actually i think that im still paying for that car ! id still be very keen to have a look at that article though. thanks - chris.

#7 gav240z

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 07:38 PM

Triples are cool they look great along a straight 6 and sound awesome.

There just so expensive and that's my main gripe about them. For the extra performance you receive I'm not sure if it's worth it on a street Z.

I think your money is much better spent on portwork and a nice agressive camshaft. Especially if your not building a race engine. A light flywheel and recurved distributor and some nice high compression will make soooo much of a difference.

As Ash said buying the carbs is only part of the expense then you have tuning and parts if it needs rebuilding.

I'm not going to go into comparing what is better because it depends on what you want. An original set of Solex's are sought after because they were a sports option part.

I guess it really depends on your budget and what you are wanting to achieve.

:wink:

#8 Toecutter

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:07 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com....QQcmdZViewItem

tattoo_ink, yer I was watching these. Theres been a couple of bids on em since I last checked.
Thanks all. I think the best coarse of action will be to get the L28 in the car and get it running on my current SU's. Once she's running right then install some triples as the icing on the cake. Hopefully by the stage 99% of my desposable income is'nt going into the house reno. In the meantime research more and keep an eye out for bargains. It's good to have a thread like this to build on and refer to on occasion.

I found this Italian guy that sell alot of Dellortos on E-bay. I think most of it is for Alfas though!?
http://stores.ebay.c...sQ3amesstQQtZkm

#9 Toecutter

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:08 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com....QQcmdZViewItem

tattoo_ink, yer I was watching these. Theres been a couple of bids on em since I last checked.
Thanks all. I think the best coarse of action will be to get the L28 in the car and get it running on my current SU's. Once she's running right then install some triples as the icing on the cake. Hopefully by the stage 99% of my desposable income is'nt going into the house reno. In the meantime research more and keep an eye out for bargains. It's good to have a thread like this to build on and refer to on occasion.

I found this Italian guy that sell alot of Dellortos on E-bay. I think most of it is for Alfas though!?
http://stores.ebay.c...sQ3amesstQQtZkm

#10 warrenz

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 10:35 AM

I am also going down this track. To me there is no better sound than a set of side draught carby's and they look great.

There just so expensive and that's my main gripe about them. For the extra performance you receive I'm not sure if it's worth it on a street Z.


Since when did being rational about value for money on restoring cars come into it Gav?

I have tracked and bid on several sets of Dellortos and Webers on ebay over the last 6 -9 months. Highest price was for a set of 40mm Webers sold by Peter Hall in SA off his race car for $1500 down to $680 for a set of Dellortos with an "unknown jap manifold", but the picture looked Datsun L series to me. I kick my self now for not biding more.

Currently I am building a set from scratch. I have the 40mm Dellortos with 32mm chokes. A couple of manifolds have been on ebay recently but I stopped bidding when it got to near new pricing. Will most likely buy the Redline one new.

Found a guy in Germany selling Dellorto parts on ebay and bought rebuild kits for half the price in Australia and he just happened to live in Aachen in Germany where I go on business about 3 times a year. So I went and picked them up last week. Really nice guy with a nice 40 year old BMW1602.

http://stores.ebay.c...3aAUQ3a45QQtZkm

Jets seem to be the hardest to get, plus you need 6 of everything so cost adds up, then you need soft mounts, airfilters so it does add up
Since my car is still off the road I am in no hurry so will just keep my eyes open. I will keep bidding on complete sets and if I snag a bargain I will sell what I have built up.

The Dellortos being sold on ebay are all off Alfa's and there are 3 series around, F, G and H. Only slight differences between the three.

The DHLA Dellortos have not been in production for some time but the Webers seem to be back in production.
http://www.webercarb...uretors_s/2.htm

Warren

#11 Toecutter

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 11:57 AM

Hi Warren, Guys,

Your thoughts on these? How much do you think linkages and a manifold would cost? What do you think these are worth?

Posted Image

40 DHLA DELL ORTO side draft dual barrel carbs.

A TRIPLE MATCHED SET.

Complete.

professionaly rebuilt.

The italian dual barrel carburetors all -beside the solex addhe and ddh-have iron made air by pass screws.these screws have a very important factor in tunning these carbs between the 4 barrels and regulating the airflow at idle-butterflies closed position.many of these used carburetors have these little screws seized because the iron gets rusty within the seat.all the carburetors that are shipped out have these screws proffesionaly unseized and have been changed to brass air by pass screws-as the solex carburetors-that will never seize.

All the carbs are bench tested and all 6 barrels syncronized before shipment.

carbs have either consecutive or close serial numbers.

These types of dual barrel carburetors seldom need the base to be resurfaced but if anyone wants to have the job made it can be done at no extra charge.please submit this request at the time of the the purchase/payment.

The carbs can be delivered with a 30-34mm venturis setup at no extra charge.a 36mm venturis setup-even though it isnt recomended for the 40mm carbs' size can also be made-having a #150 neddle/pinvalve .if a larger needle valve is desired-it can be purchased seperately thru my other carburetors parts auctions/ebay store.

can be installed on any weber standard side draft intake manifold-suitable for alfa romeo/vauxhall/ford/triumph/bmw/Datsun,,.interchangeable with the weber DCOE and solex side draft 40 mm carbs.excellent carbs for street use.can also be used and tuned for special applications.

These carbs are famous for their high degree of fuel atomization capabilities.

The throttle lever can be delivered for a ball&joint linkage or for a cable linkage.please specify which one if you have a special request.

Parts and jets for these carbs can still be purchased and are still produced in the euro zone.

(THE WORD "EACH" ON TOP OF THE AD MEANS "EACH TRIPLE SET-3 SEPERATE MATCHED CARBURETORS UNITS ").

a triple set of these carburetors weighs 7.5-8g.



#12 nat0_240_chevZ

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:59 PM

mmm, look nice.

depending on shipping costs i suppose. i personally would offer up about 600$ but im not in the market for l series units, as i have a v8, and my mates going an all out v6.

gee also sounds like the person writing the description is a salesman, 4sure.

nato

#13 Toecutter

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 08:26 PM

Yer it's the same Italian guy as on the post a few above this one. He's after USD$450 which would be $550.00 Aussie I guess. Warren told me that alot of 80's Alfas had twin Dellorto 40's. I wonder how much the Alfa wrecker would charge for them? Could be like a bit of a treasure hunt :D

#14 zr240

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 09:18 PM

Sulio your about 5 yrs to late :).

used to pick up 40s for $100 each of the alfa wreakers but those days are long gone (I think)

anyways they do need different jets etc to work on the zed but they were definatly a bargin

Ash

#15 Toecutter

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:17 AM

:? hmmm...will do some digging

#16 JP240z

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:46 AM

does anyone have approximate jet sizes for tripple 40mm dellorto's onto a warm L24?
i have recently bought some, and had to spend heaps getting them up to scratch, as the seller on this forum talked shit about their quality.
I am having trouble getting the mixtures right, and am really struggling at getting the revs to climb when below 3000 rpm. The old man bought a really good tool from the US to give me air:fuel mixtures amongst other things over a 40 minute test drive, so I should be able to sort it out when I get my radiator replaced, but I was juts hoping some people had some input as to approximate idle and main jet sizes for 40 mm dellorto's.

cheers,
Jack.

#17 Toecutter

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:41 AM

Jack,

This thread might help:

http://forums.hybrid...ead.php?t=93343

Where did you buy your set from? Can you give me an idea of what parts you had to change and how much it's cost you for replacement parts?

Thanks
Sulio

#18 JP240z

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:23 PM

I bought them off 240ZR,
which is not to be mistaken wish ash.
I had to replace the top part of one of the carbs as it had been broken where the float pin was, and a nail had replaced the float pin. approx $120
I had to replace all gaskets and all needles and seats. aprox $80
I had to replace 2 of the idle jets, as they didnt match the other 4. and I have also drilled out the main jets about 0.4 mm and the idle jets about 0.2 mm.
Still having a fair bit of trouble with them, but this tool should give me an idea of what the air:fuel mixture is like.
I dont know how anyone that isnt a mechanic would be able to put tripple carbs on there own car, as the only person I have been directed to quoted me at least $1000 to jet them properly.

#19 Enzo

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:41 PM

Hi Guys, Thought that I would share some of the info that I have come across over the last year or so regarding Dellortos. I have a set of triple 40mm dellortos on a redline manifold that I bought from a guy advertising on ozdat. He said they were off a 260z and would fit straight on with no alterations. (what a load of crap ). These were the emission carbs with a (G) prefix . The emission Dellortos are DHLA 40F,G,H,L and N models. If these are to be used on a Zed car the idle air bleeds should be changed from a 2mmm hole to a 1.2mm hole to make it more suitable for road use. I also found that the mounting studs on the manifold were not straight, meaning that one of the carbies was out of alignment. Spindles on all carbs should be aligned so throttle adjustments are accurate and constant. At this stage I would recommend buying Des Hammills book (How to build and power tune Weber & Dellorto Carburettors). All the jetting was incorrect and I would assume that the guy only got satisfaction at high RPMs . Anyway back to the quest. Gordon Dobie from the Datsun Performance Centre in Cheltenham Victoria is retired now but can be contacted at (datcar54@hotmail.com) regarding any tuning problems with your Zed. He also supplied the Idle air correctors that I needed for my carbies. Great Guy, and he has been building Zed cars since the 1970's. He is retired so may take a while to return your email. Dellorto parts are available from Steve at the Elan Factory in Melbourne. Check his web site or email for prices and tuning info ( sales@elanfactory.com.au ). Now for the good part. These are recommendations for triple 40mm emission Dellortos with the idle air circuit modified as mentioned above. Settings will vary depending on mod's to the engine, cam,head work etc. MODIFIED ENGINE: 32mm chokes; 7772.5 emulsion tubes; 145 mains; 170 air correctors; 50 idles; 45 pumps
STANDARD ENGINE
32mm chokes
7772.3 emulsion tubes
135 mains
210 air correctors
45 idles
55pumps
Hope this will be of help. Be cautious when buying over the net, because what works on one car may not work well on another. Because i think people don't take the time to tune the carbs correctly initially there will be sets available at cheap prices but you have to consider the rejetting and overhaul costs as well. I would not sell my set under $3000 because that is what the total cost has been to get it right. ( 10Litre/ 100km ). It doesn't matter if you prefer Dellorto, weber or mikuni's, they all will work if tuned correctly. All the best in motoring. David.
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#20 Toecutter

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 06:41 PM

Well some good news I bought the carbs from the Italian fella who's been pretty good to deal with to date. I've told him to hold off on shipping as I do more research into a close enough set up for my L28. I know it won't spot on but the closer I get the less fine tuning that will be required later.

Enzo250, thanks for your recomendations. Do you think 30mm chokes would be too small for a mild L28? A lot of guys I've read about with tripples say they bog down if punched below 3500rpm and should be driven hard to keep them pulling and this is their nature!??? I was just thinking could many be running oversized chokes and jet set up for street use?

I'm thinking about requesting one of the following two set ups for the 40's I just bought,

30mm chokes
7548.3 aux venturi
7772.11 emulsion tubes
130 mains
180 air correctors
57 idles
42 pumps

or

32mm chokes
7772.3 emulsion tubes
135 mains
210 air correctors
45 idles
55 pumps




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