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Change from triple webers to fuel injection


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#21 Gordo

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:55 PM

Salty, there is one thing I love about this club, and that is the members. Where else can you post your thoughts and talk about that one common bond the old Datsun. I must admit for me a family man and a very busy life I do look forward to logging on to find out what everyone is up to. Anyway I appreciate your thoughts. As I have said the tune at the top end is good and the idle is not to bad but that middle bit is a pain in the ass.  The last dyno I had (last week) was with a differant dizzy, no air leaks on the induction side of things. So next we are going to try changing the Aux Venturi as I have heard this changes were the middle part comes in . If we can get it to come in later then we can tune it out with the mains hopefully. And after looking into the EFI, keeping in mind your not ment to skimp on things that matter which is everthing. you wont get much change out of 8--10 k. Throttle body's 3 k  helteck 2k  then there is all the other stuff associated fuel tank pumps,dizzy, coil packs, lots of bits and Pisces and a nother day on the dyno , that's an easy 8k. how can you justify that. the only way you can justify it is if you have it sitting in the bank, and I have looked and its not there. There is more to life that puntting the old datto around the track. Cheers.

#22 Zedman240®

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:47 PM

Gordon, my setup was around the $5K mark, and the only thing I had that I can use was the Redline manifold. That was with a new ECU, throttle bodies, injectors etc. Do you want to spend ages on the dyno tuning carbs or racing / driving the zed? It may seem a  bit of cash up front, but then you will save time and money later on. A good computer can be found second hand but things like pumps and injectors etc are better bought new. Give Steve Newing a call and find out some info; he can put components together for you with a budget.

#23 peter mc

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:15 PM

I hear you gordo part are so expensive and the faster you go the more expensive it gets , i hope you can get the carbs fixed as i love chasing your zed around the track

#24 DAZDA

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:18 AM

Can you give us all the set-up info??
Main Jet size, Emulsion Tube Numbers, Air Correctors, Idle Jet Size, Idle Jet Tube, Choke Size, etc

If as Peter Mc says your car was running around Sandown and blowing black smoke the whole way, I suggest either the main jets (and maybe the idle jets as well) are too big OR the fuel bowls are too full and causing extra fuel to pass through the main jets.  What fuel pressure are you running into the carbies?

Unfortunately it could be so many things, but if you haven't already I'd start by checking;
  • Float levels
  • Replace the needle and seats for the fuel input to the bowls
  • Check the Idle Adjustment screws
  • Smaller Main Jets
  • Smaller Idle Jets
  • Check for wear (lateral movement) in the main throttle shaft

Have a read of this.  Unfortunately it's based around 4 cylinders but the principles are the same. http://www.classicra...s_DVAndrews.pdf


Having said all that, if you are seriously considering EFI and are prepared to spend some cash ($4k-6k) just do it.  There is absolutely no comparison between carbies & a dizzy, and fully programmable ignition and fuel management.



#25 .

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:03 AM

Can I get some further advice on EFI on an L engine?

Just wondering what are the options and associated costs for timing sensors?

Peter Mac, does the dizzy you mention provide a timing output to the ECU?

Can I buy a crank angle sensor for an L?

Is hall effect just a coil of wire wrapped around the coil lead?

Zedback, I know you converted a 280zx dizzy to provide a timing output. What was involved?

Any other options?


#26 neRok

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:01 PM

i found these guys advertising on another forum, http://stackinjection.com.au/ pretty cheap for the v8 gear, and on the other forum they mentioned they could develop something for holden 6, so the nissan 6 couldnt be much harder.

@galderdi: what do you need the timing for, ie megasquirt or haltech or motec or other ecm? hall effect is a type of signal generated by magnets that spin, either in the dizzy or on the flywheel or pulley with a sensor.

#27 .

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:43 PM

Yeah I plan to install an after market ECU. I am not sure which brand, it just depends which one comes up for the right price.

#28 Zedman240®

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:30 PM

Depending on what ECU you want to use and what input it needs, when I used the Wolf computer, I just modified a standard 280ZX electronic distributor to suit. It involves locking it so there is no vac advance (as the ECU controls it now) and just installing a new magnet plate for a stronger pulse to make it easier for the ECU to read and less errors. Another option would be a turbo L28 electronic distributor with a optical sensor; very similar to a RB30 model. All it is there for is to tell the ECu when to fire the coil and distribute the spark. The RB30/L28 Turbo ones with the optical sensor do the firing of the coil and if you want to run distributor-less ignition, tell the ECU where and when cylinder #1 fires as the rest in the firing order.

#29 .

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:24 PM

Depending on what ECU you want to use and what input it needs, when I used the Wolf computer, I just modified a standard 280ZX electronic distributor to suit. It involves locking it so there is no vac advance (as the ECU controls it now) and just installing a new magnet plate for a stronger pulse to make it easier for the ECU to read and less errors. Another option would be a turbo L28 electronic distributor with a optical sensor; very similar to a RB30 model. All it is there for is to tell the ECu when to fire the coil and distribute the spark. The RB30/L28 Turbo ones with the optical sensor do the firing of the coil and if you want to run distributor-less ignition, tell the ECU where and when cylinder #1 fires as the rest in the firing order.


Excellent, so where can I get a new magnet plate for an L28 dizzy?

#30 Zedman240®

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:32 PM

Excellent, so where can I get a new magnet plate for an L28 dizzy?


Last I heard they were NLA but try different Nissan dealerships...they might still be around.

#31 peter mc

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:20 PM

I make a distributor  with a home and trigger built in it is a VL type cas with a billet housing and it costs $600 and it has been very reliable

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:34 PM

I make a distributor  with a home and trigger built in it is a VL type cas with a billet housing and it costs $600 and it has been very reliable


I am probably about 6-8 months off having my new engine ready. What is your lead time / next batch for one of these?

#33 peter mc

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:41 PM

about 10 minutes have one in the shed but you need to tell me if you are running 6 coils or 1

#34 Gordo

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:42 PM

Hi Guys,  Well I have taken the carby's off the car for another look over and a few mods, I will replace the needle and seats as this seems to be recamended. the aux venturi will be changed from 4.5 to 3.5. I know alot of you guys are saying to try this and that. And I can assure you all main jet and air jet combo's have been try ed. AS well as 5 differant emultion tubes. And as some of you would no, sometimes you have a gain in some areas but loose somewhere else. so after 26 runs on the dyno last week, and heaps of changes we end up with the same set up as the other dyno guy from last year, go figger. So I recon I have about one more shot at it or play time and if that don't work, I will put it up on blocks until they find a cure for it.

#35 luvemfast

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:59 PM

Ok, I'm probably one of the least qualified to chime in, but.....
If your blowing black smoke all the way around the track, your running rich right?
So maybe your flat spot is coming from another link in the chain, exhaust maybe?
Just a thought, good luck Gordo?

#36 Wayne G

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 07:13 PM

IMHO you have a reversion issue and the cheapest and easiest way to fix reversion and maintain performance is to tune the exhaust size. Whilst the diameters may be correct, secondary pipe length and merge style have a significant impact on power and torque curves. You may find that a smaller primary or secondary pipe diameter may reduce total power slightly but prevent the reversion or move it to a RPM range that does not impact the driveability of the vehicle. Find an exhaust expert. Peter Mac can probably assist with advice or a contact.

#37 Gordo

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 08:39 PM

Wayne, I think you have a valad point there. It will take alot of time to cut and shut the exhaust at a guesstimated diameter and length and then test it on the dyno. I have a few other things to try,  all I have is time and the exhaust thing has been playing on my mind for some time, and might be tried later down the track. Thanks Wayne.  Regards Gordon.

#38 Gordo

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 05:15 PM

Back again Guys. So the exhaust system may need looking at.  I measured the exhaust and premieres are 1" 3/4 at 32" long. 1,2and 3into a 2" 1/2 secondary, same as 4,5  and 6. The secondaries are about 25 " long ,not quit the same lengh as gear box and ground clearance is restrictive. And the secondaries flow into a 3"  tail pipe with a resonator and turbo muffler at the rear. So the system breaths really good ,maybe to good. To get more midrange power should I put two 2"  or 2"1/4 pipe sleeve's inside the secondaries to give more restriction and maybe more midrange power. I also need to work on the air speed at low rpm ( need more ) so the carbys get more of a signal. Inlet manifold vacum. What do you guys think about the exhaust ?

#39 peter mc

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 06:36 PM

hi Gordo
don't touch the extractors, where the pipe goes to the 3in reduce it to 2 1/4 and then straight back up to 3in .you need 2 cones welded together  it is very easy to make  give me a call and i will explane it a bit more

#40 Gordo

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 09:36 PM

Back again Guys. So the exhaust system may need looking at.  I measured the exhaust and premieres are 1" 3/4 at 32" long. 1,2and 3into a 2" 1/2 secondary, same as 4,5  and 6. The secondaries are about 25 " long ,not quit the same lengh as gear box and ground clearance is restrictive. And the secondaries flow into a 3"  tail pipe with a resonator and turbo muffler at the rear. So the system breaths really good ,maybe to good. To get more midrange power should I put two 2"  or 2"1/4 pipe sleeve's inside the secondaries to give more restriction and maybe more midrange power. I also need to work on the air speed at low rpm ( need more ) so the carbys get more of a signal. Inlet manifold vacum. What do you guys think about the exhaust ?




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