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Change from triple webers to fuel injection


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#1 Gordo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:56 PM

Hi guys, I'm just about over trying to tune my L28 triple 45 Weber's. On the dyno idle is OK , progression is lean and top end is OK. But on the road it is all ways fouling plugs. If we change emulsion tubes to get the mid range good ,the top end is to rich, just going around in circles. What ever we do can't get a good power curve. But at the end of the day it still fouls plugs and then its undriveable. The cam has 480 thou lift and the extractors are 32" tuned length primerys 1' and 5/8 diam. The Weber's had 42mm ventures and tryed 38mm but no change. it's got me to the point of exploring the options of going to fuel injection, how much would it cost to set up  fuel injection, and would it be worth changing over ? Cheers Gordon.

#2 mossy

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:59 PM

Gordon have you spoken to Peter MC about the tuning, he may be able to help.

#3 Gordo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:03 PM

I havent spoken to Peter yet, but he would be first on the list if I choose to take the Injection option.

#4 peter mc

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:35 PM

Hi gordo,
EFI is the way to go with full control of the ignition, as most l28 with your combo will have a dip in power around 4000rpm and will run very rich in this spot and is very hard to tune around with carbs.
If you need help to go efi i can help with the parts and the tune, the only problem with efi is the initial cost to set up.

EFI cost
I like to use Haltech and you will need a full sequential computer to get it to run the way you need it to this will be around $2200.
Distributor cost with home and trigger around $600.
6 X LS1 coils around $50 each.
EFI hardware individual tapered throttle bodies size 48/45/43 cost ???? best to call EFI hardware and check price.
You can use your Weber manifold to save some money.
6 X Injectors all up roughly $500.
Fuel pump high and low pressure and surge tank will be around $600.
Fuel line and clamps roughly $50
Installation of parts cost will vary depending on if you can do some yourself or have it all done for you.
Tuning will mean the car will be on the dyno most of a day so you will be charged per hr at around $100 an hr.

Any questions just give me a call.

Thanx Pete!

#5 Gordo

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 06:04 AM

  Thanks for all that info Peter, It will be worth looking in to. As I keep throwing money at this thing and not getting anywhere,I may start to collect the efi hardware. Thanks again Peter. Regards Gordon.

#6 dazzed

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:49 AM

Hey Gordon, If its fouling plugs to the point of causing an engine miss, there is something lurking in there you maybe overlooking, if its running rich you need to know how rich in air/fuel mixture ratio it is , it may not even be the carbs, when was the last time the needles and seats were repaced?

#7 260Coupe

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:59 AM

Gordon

Junk the Webers and install a set of Mikuni's !

I know of a set of Triple 44's for sale that were running on my old 240z Sc race car (turning 145 rwkw from a little L24 !)

The Mikinu's are complete with linkages, manifold and 50 mm ram tubes...................and ready to bolt on

Once dyno tuned properly you won't need to touch them again

I think the asking price is around $2500

PM me if you are interested

Alan

#8 620Z

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:28 AM

Gordo you want reliability. You have a fast car but need drivability and like you say. You can waste a lot of cash on tuning carbs and still never get it right. You race the car regularly and have done for 15 years, probably more.
So go for the fuel injection. You won't regret it. Who knows you might even save some money after 10 more years of running it like that. You know the you will still have the car then.
Go for it!

#9 zr240

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:34 AM

I agree, go to EFI

Dont get me wrong , I love my carbies but if you are having probs and there is no one to tune them correct its not worth the hassle.

Ash



#10 Zedman240®

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:06 AM

What I love about my EFI setup is the drivabilty and the "set and forget" nature. Once setup, it only needs basic maintenance to keep it running well. Only downside is any major changes done to engine, exhaust etc. needs a dyno tune. Been runing an ITB setup now for over 10 years with no problems at all. With the distributor, if you want to run with a 280ZX turbo dizzy to run the coilpacks, may make it a tad cheaper. Not sure what Peter thinks about that but may be worthwhile installing one to save making a crank angle sensor setup.

#11 Gordo

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 05:44 PM

Dazzed is properly right, there is some thing we are over looking and have been chasing for a while now. As I said in the intro I recon the cam could be playing havoc with the overlap scavenging fuel back through the exhaust at lower Reeves or for some re son the extractors are not the right combo for this setup. that's the thing, there is know easy answer. You try something and it doesn't work so you just keep trying. Cam timing ,heaps of jet combos, differant dizzys, fuel pressure ,fuel volume, valve springs, crankcase pressure ,coil, ram tube length long and short and they do make a huge difference, but don't fix the tune problem. So after all this you start to wonder if the efi will sort it out.

#12 peter mc

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:27 PM

hay gordo let me have the car for a week will run it up in my spear time and i will fix it for you .i think you have been way to Rich on the tune for a long time ,the last time i followed you at sandown it blow black smoke the hole way around the track .dose it foul all plugs or just some..? i think the carbs will be ok when they are sorted.

#13 chris240

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:27 PM

pfffft
I had my ol 2nd hand 40mm webbers setup properly from day 1 with a conservative recipe to match my stockish engine, and theve been running perfectly.
If your running a stock to mild L28 I wouldnt recommend 45mm dcoe. It sounds like your your trying to de-tune the carbs by trying to use smaller venturis...
You can only choke-back a carb so much.
what recipe is currently in them ? how worked is your engine ?
also have you considered a type 5 hotter plug ?
edit
haha Peter you posted 13 secs before me, Im sure youll sort them  ;D

#14 peter mc

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 07:42 PM

gordos motor is a very strong l28 with lots of mods i think it makes 160+kw at the wheels

#15 Gordo

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:38 PM

Peter. some times there will be two plugs sooted up black, not oily, and some times 3 or 4 plugs. If you put new plugs in it with a warm motor and drive it hard rev it to about 6500rpm under load and switch engine off to do a plug check they are ok in color, but then cruze around at 3000rpm and they start to foul up. I will PM you about your offer. Regards Gordon.

#16 Gordo

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:51 PM

PS . I am useing the type 5 plugs at the moment as the 7s  that I was useing just foul up to much. I changed the chokes from 42mm to 38mm and we found no differance, go figger. I am getting reversion at about 4000rpm but you only see it with the socks off on the dyno. That is when we played with the ram tubes. it made a heap of differance but would not fix the up and downs in the tune.

#17 peter mc

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 10:09 PM

yer the 4000rpm dip  ::) it is very hard to fix with carbs , the cam and exhust cause this if you retard the cam timing it gets better but it moves the power up the rev range about 1000rpm not so good . i have found with the injection i can tune around it ,the revershon is very bad with wade cams dial in figure but it does make the power nice and early , you will need to take up to 40% of the fuel out at 4000 to clean it up it will also be a lot nicer to drive .also i have modified the exhust which helps

#18 neRok

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:46 PM

you could look at the delco efi setup, can be with our without distributor, would come in far cheaper than the price list mentioned before. also, if you get a delcohacking.net computer system, you can tune with efi-live software, which is free and everyone is using it on a lot of cars like gen3 v8s, so finding an operator shouldnt be hard. i posted some info on this a few months back, plus a L20A turbo worklog from someone else here in aus.

i also spotted a sexy ITB setup on a L20B the other day, apparently made by Mark Banyard (i have no idea who he is). http://www.aussiev8....html#post414627

#19 peter mc

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:19 PM

Mark is a datsun head man in the ACT he does lots of L20b stuff and he also makes a manifold that suits the 4s ,he does not make one for 6 unfortunately .as for the delco setup i would not like to use it on a itb with no vac signal with mad reversion from a monster cam .not so nice on a race car

#20 Gordo

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

Yes Peter, It's agood Idea to go with a tried and tested set up. And not trying to sort all the problems out along the way with untried setups. Cheers.




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