Sirpent Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 ***EDIT BY GAV240z *** First post of this thread should be this: http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,9026.msg86295.html#msg86295 This topic has been split from other discussions, hence it's a bit of a mess ********************* Nice intro 24Dat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24 Dat Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Sorry not a regular user of Forums first post, currently finishing putting back together a 76 260Z 2 seater and a new dash is needed Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 I don't want to detract from this post, so will keep it short, It;s common courtesy for new members to follow Forum etiquette and post a bit about themselves and their rides in a separate intro first, share your story what you need aspire too and a pic or two. Of recent times there have been a lot of first time posters going directly after parts or posting other remarks or questions which causes some angst amongst the regular members. You will find ppl are genrally helpful and welcoming here, but try to start on the right note 24. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEXZED Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hi There yes i would like to buy the Dash for $500.00 can you please get a price posted to Brisbane, and details of payment, me Cheers Dave hey mate its usually the person who post first has first option to buy. Since you have only one post and no intro i think you missed out. Became a contributing member and you will go a long way Loui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 This is one of my biggest irks. Newbies, who have never contributed any value to this site, who grab a good deal before an "actual" member can! Thus, guys who put in, can miss out. No offense to 24dat, but it would have been nice for an intro before you buy the bargains. Then disappear. It's happening more and more lately. I'll give you an example. I sold a 240Z here with an RB30, yes it needed work. But I thought I'd do the right thing and put it here for a member to build. How much did I ask? $3,000 And a guy bought it, them disappeared! Maybe there should be a locked topic for BUYING until you've reached 10-50 posts? Or am I going a bit over the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53-681 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think you guys are overreacting waayyyy too much! At least he's joined the forums -.- Maybe this thread acted as the catalyst for this new user to join. Ofcourse, intro is part of the rules etc etc. but come on guys, its not a holy religion or something. I definately don't mean to be rude or anything luvemfast bro, but so what if your seller just disappeared from the forums? Its each to their own, maybe something happened to the guy, or he purchased the car for his family member, etc. If not, why does it matter anyway 24 dat, just provide a very brief intro on the intro section so people don't have a cry. Just your name, where your from, your Z if you have one, a little details of it if you may etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think you guys are overreacting waayyyy too much! At least he's joined the forums -.- Maybe this thread acted as the catalyst for this new user to join. It's not an over reaction at all ! And I totally agree with Simon, take a look for yourself, he joined just to purchase, and don't give me that excuse that it may have been or was the catalyst, then why didn't he join earlier or is he one of the countless ones that just ghost the forum? Ever noticed how there is a 3:1 ratio of guests v's members, what is it, are we a pack of guinea pigs on show for the rest? or is it maybe that we are to uncouth for the civilised GUESTS ? Loui and I spoke about this off topic, when we joined around the same time and posted our INTRO"s we were both worried would be upset someone and be set upon, but in fact we were welcomed as we now try to do with every new member here, at the very least they can follow some basics when posting for the very first time also. It's interesting how many requests I get to accept new friends on facebook these days, and what ends up happening, they ghost my pics and never even say Hi, so no more requests and no more adds, obviously all they want to do is get idea's. And Simon is 100% spot on, every member that shows some support be it moral, material or financial is supported in return and Yes we would like to see the items we offer up shared amongst those that participate rather than seeing leakage to prospectors. From now on if I'm selling anything I'm stamping the post with "Offered to financial forum members only" call that what you will but I think its one way of making it clear that membership is and deserves privileges. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YosemiteZed Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hi I would like to respond to the forum in regards to this post. I have been following this forum for about 2 years and only Officially registered just recently. I was classified by registered members as a "TROLL" when the Longfield collection was being posted even though i was contributing financially anonymously,this I believe was a unjust name tag for people wanting to view the quality of this forum. The catalyst for me to register was not the Technical or the For Sale but the many genuine responses to the unfortunate death of Kyle and the strong "esprit de corps" of the group even though many people had not meet him and spread all across this great land, and i was so touched. My first post was not an introduction but to assist a member just recently with some valuable information that I had in regards to a wiring harness.this was because I have an Australian parts list that is complete for all 240/260 and 2+2 up to 1978.therefore I agree with 53-681 to some extent. My suggestion would be to lock the FOR SALE and FREE sections only to donating members for a period of two (3) days from the time of the original post to enable active members (donating) first dibs at anything being offered and that way satisfy and encourage members to financially support the forum that has this section allowing parts that are now getting harder to find an avenue to restorers,this was always the impression and principal of many members I thought in saving these historic beasts from the metal crushers. I suppose some people will think that this view is not justified because I have-not gone to a formal intro,but what is a forum without a soapbox,what value is the speaker without a crowd,are we going to deny access to Gordon Dobies knowledge and experience because he hasn't done an intro to, I feel that in this area we should be a little bit tolerant, and focus on the issue that items are being claimed before active members,I was always taught not to whinge without offering a solution. Therefore I suppose if the will of the membership is there and the support of the moderators, then Gavin can make this LOCK happen and this will give value to being a donating member and still allow a vibrant forum Cheers Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators gav240z Posted April 2, 2011 Administrators Share Posted April 2, 2011 Of recent times there have been a lot of first time posters going directly after parts or posting other remarks or questions which causes some angst amongst the regular members. I understand where you are coming from and I know it's frustrating as someone looking to restore these cars that hard to find parts come up seldom and then disappear. In some ways I understand the frustration and how you may feel "cheated" as a contributor to the site who adds value. However I also see the flip side of the coin, I recently bought an RX-7 and am an active member of the Irish Forum for rotary cars. However there is a far larger community in the UK and much more good parts available, I've been using eBay and the Mazda Rotary Club forum to source bits and pieces, spending way too much money I might add . I have not contributed to this other site yet in the form of technical info or really given an introduction. Rather I've been purchasing parts. From this perspective I don't see a problem, someone wants to sell something, I give them the money they want and buy it no mucking about and no backing out of an agreement, which often happens when selling cars or parts. Others may get upset if I "beat them to the bargain" but as with any good deal, you snooze you loose. A problem I have is that you can only really be an active members in some many forums at a given point in time. I would love to participate in all these forums if time were readily available as I'm sure there is much I could learn and much I could share with others. I suspect many of these others who view the forum may feel the same way or be just busy restoring their car and not ready to invest the time yet to become known in the community but are happy to spectate. As you mentioned 1/3 of visitors to the site are actually registered users. We can't force everyone to join and I strongly believe that the reason the site has grown is due to it's open nature. This is one of my biggest irks. Newbies, who have never contributed any value to this site, who grab a good deal before an "actual" member can! Thus, guys who put in, can miss out. No offense to 24dat, but it would have been nice for an intro before you buy the bargains. Then disappear. It's happening more and more lately. I'll give you an example. I sold a 240Z here with an RB30, yes it needed work. But I thought I'd do the right thing and put it here for a member to build. How much did I ask? $3,000 And a guy bought it, them disappeared! > Maybe there should be a locked topic for BUYING until you've reached 10-50 posts? Or am I going a bit over the top? Totally understand where you are coming from, and it sucks to miss out on the bargains or the good deals. I think my situation with the RX-7 is a bit different to this community because the Z is getting rarer and hard to find. The RX-7 is still relatively easy to obtain parts for, although some parts are getting difficult to source or very expensive for OEM. Remember just because the owner of the Z you sold has not registered yet (He may have) doesn't mean he wont' drop in and say hello soon. He may be busy putting it back together and getting it up to speed. God knows I should spend less time on forums and more time on the car. I think you guys are overreacting waayyyy too much! At least he's joined the forums -.- Maybe this thread acted as the catalyst for this new user to join. I tend to agree mate, although I understand their frustration. In many ways it's a case of the early bird gets the worm . Hi I would like to respond to the forum in regards to this post. I have been following this forum for about 2 years and only Officially registered just recently. I was classified by registered members as a "TROLL" when the Longfield collection was being posted even though i was contributing financially anonymously,this I believe was a unjust name tag for people wanting to view the quality of this forum. The catalyst for me to register was not the Technical or the For Sale but the many genuine responses to the unfortunate death of Kyle and the strong "esprit de corps" of the group even though many people had not meet him and spread all across this great land, and i was so touched. My first post was not an introduction but to assist a member just recently with some valuable information that I had in regards to a wiring harness.this was because I have an Australian parts list that is complete for all 240/260 and 2+2 up to 1978.therefore I agree with 53-681 to some extent. My suggestion would be to lock the FOR SALE and FREE sections only to donating members for a period of two (3) days from the time of the original post to enable active members (donating) first dibs at anything being offered and that way satisfy and encourage members to financially support the forum that has this section allowing parts that are now getting harder to find an avenue to restorers,this was always the impression and principal of many members I thought in saving these historic beasts from the metal crushers. I suppose some people will think that this view is not justified because I have-not gone to a formal intro,but what is a forum without a soapbox,what value is the speaker without a crowd,are we going to deny access to Gordon Dobies knowledge and experience because he hasn't done an intro to, I feel that in this area we should be a little bit tolerant, and focus on the issue that items are being claimed before active members,I was always taught not to whinge without offering a solution. Therefore I suppose if the will of the membership is there and the support of the moderators, then Gavin can make this LOCK happen and this will give value to being a donating member and still allow a vibrant forum Cheers Phil Hi Phil, In many ways I couldn't agree more with everything you have mentioned. I would like to point out that Phil is not alone and there have been a few donations from people who have no membership or registration on the site. I think a members only section could be a good solution to this issue. Where members who donate only have access and can post cars / parts for first dibs there and then if the seller wishes they can move it to the normal or open classifieds. The only problem is that there is no automated facility for such a workflow built into the forum. There is also no good way of "billing" forum members regularly, although you can have paid membership through the forum it's actually not very intuitive to find. Although some members have found this facility. It may be worth exploring in more detail and perhaps creating a "how to" page to instruct users how to become re-curring paid members. The other alternative to donations on the site would be more advertising. I've been looking into various options and with more advertising it could be possible to offset the hosting costs of the site with advertising. Of course I don't want to put flashing banners on the site to point of causing seizures. However this would obviously be more intrusive than the current advertising so it's a trade off. Funny thing is when it comes to advertising we make more money off the "trolls" than the regular members who become "banner blind". So we could put the costs of the site onto the non-donating members in many ways. Just something to think about. Then there is the option of paying to not see so much advertising, again it could be a bit of work to implement and something to research. I would like to know how other members on the site feel before taking any action on this. I think a poll might be in order to get a feel for how the community feels about this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators gav240z Posted April 2, 2011 Administrators Share Posted April 2, 2011 This poll is a result of a recent discussion that started in this thread. http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,9023.0.html Then was split into this thread: http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,9026.0.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.R. Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 IIMHO I think now is the right time for a private members section... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsandwhich Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think it does need a private section where the "older" members can get first dibs on items, or discuss certain issues without having unregistered people see it. Saying that, I also was a "lurker" on this site for a few years before I did join up as I felt that I probably did not (and maybe still do not) have much to offer in terms of technical knowledge but found that there are a lot of members with vast knowledge to learn from and access to items for sale on this site. To be honest, some people treat this site like it is some sort of secret freemasons society and you will only be allowed into the clique if you perform some ritual or can replicate the secret handshake at any given time, which is why maybe they do need a private area to go about their business there. The reality is that this is a public forum, so anyone with an internet connection can view what is posted. Hopefully the people who do share their wealth of knowledge or hard to find parts will continue to do so even if they don't receive the praise/acknowledgment that they deserve after ever post/sale. Just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53-681 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 LOL so now your going to make a "members" inside an already "members" site/forum. Sheesh, open source guys. Where's all the trust and community benefits??? The ratio of this site may be 3:1 of outside viewers:members, but thats prob because half the time members do not log in to the forum... I access these forums from work, uni, home and friends place so imagine others... Hey, I'm not afraid of donating, I'm just bedazzled by the factor that its becoming compulsory - I thought a donation was something you give of your free will; not to receive something back in return... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think you guys are missing the point, but in doing so are actually doing all that is required....... GET INVOLVED That's it! Introduce yourselves. Ask questions. See something you like, add a comment saying so. Chance to make a joke, do it. Start a build thread of your own. Then- If you feel the value, make a donation. So you see, there are so many ways to add to this open forum. It's not like watching Big Brother. You can all get involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted April 2, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 2, 2011 Last thing I would like to see is a "us" and "them" scenario.. I'm all about helping others restoring a zed be it if they are contributing members or just regular members. I've missed out on a heap of bargains on this site but like I posted in my free seats thread...you snooze, you lose! Of course it's annoying but I just accept it and keep on looking. I've also noticed alot of first time posters advertising zed parts with their first post; I find that very helpful as they are giving us first dibs before anyone else..I would like to see this site stay the way it is..you don't want to start driving members away... Simon, with that zed you sold with the RB, I know exactly where it is! It's about 2 mins from my work getting the bodywork all sorted. Also, it is running now and soon will be competing in events.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Simon, with that zed you sold with the RB, I know exactly where it is! It's about 2 mins from my work getting the bodywork all sorted. Also, it is running now and soon will be competing in events.. I saw him at Lou Mondello's one day and had a bit of a chat. It would have been nice for a build thread, but oh well. It's not about us and them, anyone can get involved! That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reverendzed Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 This is just my observations after only being a forum member for 4 years. This used to be a forum for the exchange of ideas, parts, the occasional attempt at humor and the odd snipe at someone...things have changed, and for the better! We are now, more than ever more of a Zed community and community by it's very nature means that we are about building relationships with like minded people as well as building our cars. Cars come and go (I'm testimony to that! ) but the friendships made remain. I recently caught up with the Ballarat boys who I hadn't seen in months and it was like getting handshakes from my closest friends (which many of you guys on the forum acually are!) Forums, and who posts what and who donates when has some protocols but lets never forget that if it protocols become the standard by which someone is accepted or not then this will quickly move from being a community of Zed enthusiest to an information portal for the anonymous. Let's have a reality check guys and not major on the minors, we all lost a friend last year and the year before, that was MAJOR - someone loses a bargain, that's a MINOR. Let's just keep building on the things that will make us a stong community and forget the stuff that will take us toward Obsolescence. Rev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 lurch and mods, I will vouch for 24dat, he is well known to me, does a lot of local club motorsport, could we please give him access. He was not aware of the nodus operandi here! He owns 4s30 and a early 2seats130 Dimitri, if it happens that David (24dat) is your buyer,, he is good for any transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoota G Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I think there is a private forum that exists which is the one that starts where sitting in front of the computer ends. I've been active on the club on allmost every level but one of the greatest advantages for me is receiving feedback on my project, it really inspires me to achieve more and to push through barriers. Having said that Rev's right, there is nothing like a warm handshake from a like minded person and knowing that you have their support not only to do with your ride but with your personal well being to. I think for some of the longer standing member that their is a certain " Street Cred" that we wish newcomers would adhere to but just like sending a drunken 3am text it's easy to come off the wrong way. I know that 3 and 1/2 years ago i was very apprehensive about joining this forum as many of the cars seemed so polished and superior to mine (not so much now) . The value of this club can change your life, i know it mine did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nizm0zed Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 i think the site is fine just the way it is. I realise my opinion probably doesnt count for much, seeing as i dont really contribute much here, but here goes. I am not that young (im not that old either) I have done the 'forum thing' allready, I used to log into said forum at least 3 times a day EVERY day for about 6 years, commenting in just about every post there was. I would have had 10,000 posts or more. I have realised that i have other things to occupy my time, instead of staring at a computer screen. I still have a passion for my cars, and i love to share that with anyone who'll care to listen, my build thread is testament to that. But at the end of the day, i like to spend my time doing other things, watching tv, playing with my kids, going for a walk ect ect. If i am out working on the car and i think "i need some info, i know its on the site" then i'll come in, have a look, a bit of a read and go back out. Quite often i dont even log on when doing that. likewise if im researching something instead of doing my real job, i dont log on unless i need to. Im sure im not the only person who does that, so i ask, consider how many 'guests' are just like that? fwiw, if it came down to having to pay for membership, i'd get around to it eventually, but Hybridz is free and there is a LOT of good info there. as for sales, I agree with sirpent that if he feels the need to attach the provision of being a contributing member to purchase, then ok. I would rather see that clearly in a post, then offer to buy it to then be told "no, you dont contribute, you cant buy it" I have missed sales on here too, some things on here sell within hours of being posted. Its luck of the draw, you either get it or you miss out and wait for next time. no big deal, no point getting your knickers in a twist over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvemfast Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I think there have been good points raised. Do we just all move on? That's the beauty of an open forum. We can all put our 2cents in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Crew I have to respect all of the remarks made in this thread, we are after all all individuals and therefore hold differing opinions. REV Dave brought forward some good points as is always expected when the man speaks or posts, as did all of the other contributors, a special mention for Yosemite also who touched on a few facts that all dig deep into our memories, and reminds us of those who were once newbies and became an integral part of the place. Nevertheless, we will again and again face this same problem regarding the first post of new members, and for what its worth Id like to suggest that the intro thread be updated with a very basic template that new members can use to hit some of the key intro points we as forum members would expect answered and ultimately enjoy reading. It need not be complex, just a few basic questions that way it can be cut and pasted into a new intro and responded to by the new member. In it I would also include a question at the end which covered what the person may be in need of for his or her project, that way those interested in assisting could respond either in the thread or in a PM. Our most recent member of today "Potter" put up a great intro and openly stated he needed some assistance, when I read an opener like that, the edge is taken off and I'm more than willing to respond and help if I can. Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24 Dat Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hi everyone sorry for causing the problems, i didnot mean to cause such a hassle, I was txted about the dash and when you see my introduction write up, which i will attempt to do somehow after this post, you can see why i was intrested in the dash, i made my offer and i had seen that it was originally was put on the site at 4pmish so i gathered i would not hear anything back until this morning, so as i was in the middle of something else i loged out, of course when i saw the result i have been trying to log in since but not being familiar with the full working of the login i was entering my detail wrong, and i thought i had been blocked out or something. My fault and i would have replied earlier Sorry for not realising you need to introduce yourself first, can i suggest that when a person joins up for the first time that they are automatically directed to a page which requires them to add details before they are able to post? i am sure those people in techno land can do that. lets face it, who really reads the fine print on anything these days.(especially people who are not familiar or who really don't plan to make a forum a big part of there life) I have joined 2 other forums to let them know of LapZ at the Lake which i know a couple of people have done on this website as they are members of ZCCQ and on the other forums there was no kind of introduction process. I am not as some people have indicated a floater i have only ever looked at this site a couple of times and not even the classifieds, I am involved in the ZCCQ and like most of our members who are not teck savie don't have the time or really the intrest in forum , and as 53-681 said yes it was the catalyst for me to join, and after seeing oldZmans (which was very uncommittial) i thought i would make an offer, hey i didnot even know what PM meant until later (yeah yeah it took a while but hey what do you expect from an non user ) i could say that i am going to be a high user and contributer to this forum but why lie I wont be as i am heavily involved with ZCCQ i just don't have the time and the ZCCQ and my Zeds takes up most of my free Z hours i even to get to drive my cars every now and then.and i am not a good typer and my grammer is shocking and i dont like staing a a computer screen for hours on end. Our Club has the same problem just like you guys there are always lots of people who do absolutly nothing and only a few who do all the work, Again sorry to have caused this problem Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roastbeef Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Something similar has happened on the UK Z car club forums recently. A select few got their hackles up about non donating members beating them to various items, a members only 10 day classifieds system was implemented - and I think those select few are still arguing about the implementation a month later. Meanwhile the remaining users carry on as per normal, just with a more divided community. Sellers complain of the lack of buyers, and buyers complain about the lack of access. More items end up on ebay etc etc. I've just donated, and probably should have done so earlier as I think gav and the admins do a great job on this site, but I think it would be a great shame to divide up the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaygZ Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Thank you Rev. Again you pick up on exactly how I (and many others) feel about this site. Car info is good, the banter and friendship that follows is great! I have 'trolled' a few other forums on different subjects (as I am a master of none) and on many other forums I have noticed that someone asks a question or logs an opinion and there is rarely more than 2 or 3 replies. On here that doesn't even happen to South Australians! (bite me Mick) Some forums don't allow entry unless you register. When I come across them I simply hit the back button and find another. With my natural distrust of people, I'm not prepared to provide my details without making some inquiries/testing the water/trolling for a while to get the feel of the forum and members. I suspect that many are of a similar view. I have no problem with trollers. Some will join and some won't. Some own Zeds and many don't. Some feel they have nothing to offer and some don't have anything to offer (note some of the latter join anyway - WOW a shed!) I joined this forum and my first post wasn't really an intro. I asked a question about a Zed I found and whether it was a viable resto. The responce I got was supportive and very much appreciated. I'm now an active member (possibly too active) with many posts and very litle constructive to say. But I have now made some friends - and some not so friends (Wow a shed!) On the subject of missing out on the bargain of a lifetime - that's disappointing. You could be donating $1M a day to the forum and still miss out by a minute. Magic happens. I know nothing about running or managing a forum. I believe that this one is run very well. Is it possible to limit the trolling access of an IP to a couple of hours? Can the sign up page link/direct the new member straight to the Intro section? Or to a page first that welcomes them and includes a guide to writing an Intro? Can there be some sort of block on posting before an Intro is posted? I now look forward to the crows picking apart my comments and the crow eaters trying to read them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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