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L28 block brace/girdle


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#1 luvemfast

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:06 PM

Seeing if there is much interest for people to buy a block brace/girdle

I have borrowed one that I am going to measure and model in CAD, then get them laser cut.
Obviously the more there are the cheaper it will be.

They need some work to fit them. Spacers needed to the mains, longer mains bolts, drilling and tapping into the block, open up through holes and countersink then screw it on.

Or is there already someone supplying them locally?

Thoughts and interest,
Simon

#2 260Coupe

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:00 AM

Simon

NDSOC life member Neil Cartledge (NEC Engineering) was making girdles over 20 years ago
I think is retired now a works from home in Mt Waverly

PM me for his details

Alan

#3 peter mc

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 07:04 AM

Hi i will have one. can help in the making if you need help

#4 luvemfast

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:34 AM

Neil is not interested in the making of these anymore.

I was wondering if you had one Peter, meant to ask you last night but you distracted me with your build specs  :)

#5 Lurch ™

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:22 AM

I'll be in for one.

#6 d3c0y

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:14 PM

what sort of cost do you think the end product will be

#7 luvemfast

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:34 PM

what sort of cost do you think the end product will be

No idea at the moment.
Still modelling it up, then will get quotes.

#8 luvemfast

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 12:12 PM

Just finished modelling it.
Will plot it at 1:1 scale and take it home to check size, position and dimensioning.
So far there are only 3 guys interested.
1. Myself
2. Peter mac
3. Lurch

Gareth, you're building a strong motor, you should consider this. Actually, anyone building a strong motot should!

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#9 Neuby

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:15 PM

Dammit!  I could have used one a few months ago!  :'(

#10 Riceburner

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:21 PM

Hmmmmm, would it be beneficial or is it overengineering for my moderate build? How much roughly and how quickly can it be made?  :P lol. I'll be getting bottom end back early next week and will slam it back together shortly thereafter  :D

#11 luvemfast

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:31 PM

Bloody plotter is not to scale, I may have to machine a sample out of craftwood/MDF to check that its alright.


#12 d3c0y

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 09:21 PM

Did electromotive, BSR or any of the big race teams ever use girdles in their race cars? I understand how it works and why it's beneficial, but is it over engineering something that doesn't need to be?

#13 stevo_gj

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 11:12 PM

So what does a girdle do? Google says something about preventing cracking by having same thermal expansion as block, not quite sure how it works though.

#14 luvemfast

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 12:29 AM

So what does a girdle do?

My thoughts are that it will brace and stiffen the block, reducing flex.
It also will increase the frequency of the dreaded harmonic vibration, moving it further up the rev range. Which puts less stress on the bottom end, in turn improving reliability.
It is supposed to change the whole sound of the car too.

Did electromotive, BSR or any of the big race teams ever use girdles in their race cars?

I don't know about the big teams, but the fastest Z, back in the day, locally ran them. And then he sold them overseas. He still has the lap record (L series Z) at the Island, 20+ years on. (Even though Peter Mac has promised to beat it)

#15 Zedman240®

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 01:39 PM

Gerhard in the NDSOC is running a girdle in his stroker.  I think he got his from Niel Cartledge a while ago.

#16 ozconnection

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 06:50 PM

They look nice but

a) big end studs probably won't fit this the same as bolts (at this point, shouldn't studs be used anyway?).

b) dip stick and oil pickup mods need to be made to take into consideration the added thickness of the plate. Not a biggie. Don't overfill the sump though.

c) how can you torque the allen headed bolts properly when there will need to be a gasket under both sides of the plate or will another alternate method of sealing the sump and plate be taking place?

Just wondering how they do that?


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#17 luvemfast

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:50 PM

A) That brace is incorrect in my book, they should utelise the mains studs. Whats that one pictured doing?

B) Drill approriate clearance hole for dipstick. Haven't looked at the pick up yet, just longer fasteners isn't it?

C)Countersunk socket screws should be used. Maybe a gasket on either side would do the job. A ball nose cutter could be run around offset from the external edge to put gasket goo in, but this would add considerable cost!

The ones I'm looking at making are much better than the one pictured IMHO.
Its using one of Neils as a template (with his permission), I have also made some mods to make a better fit.

#18 Lurch ™

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:56 PM

The photo above looks more like a windage tray, than a block girdle!

#19 peter mc

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:11 PM

THE one above is shi... it has to pick up the main studs to work . You don't use a gasket on them three bond is used too seal the block .The plate is held with countersunk allenhead bolts 6mm in between factory sump bolts all so longer main studs tie the hole lot together

#20 luvemfast

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:26 PM

Look at the pic on first page.
Note that the crank holes are smaller and V shaped.
The outside holes are for the sump.
There are smaller holes (less of them too) close to them on the inside. They are to be countersink after using as a template into the block.
The 2 larger holes in between crank holes are for the mains.
Oil pick up is obvious, dipstick needs moving for F54.
Pretty much the rest are for lightening.

Looks like it will weigh about 4kg from CAD calculations. Would 6160 Alum do the job? (It would be pricey though)




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