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Sumitomo MK 63 Calipers, brake pads and caliper rebuild kits now avail.


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#41 HS30-H

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

It's pretty easy to upset some people  ;)  don't  Kameari sell Arizona Z aluminium sumps under their own name?

 

I'm always upset when I see people making mistakes that could have been avoided with a little more effort. Quite a lot of your posts on classiczcars and HybridZ come to mind...

 

To defend Kameari Engine Works - a small company that I've been visiting, buying parts from and recommending to others for what must be close to 20 years now - they don't try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Yes, they sell parts made by other companies but there's no smoke and mirrors involved. All you have to do is ask. If you're buying NGK spark plugs, genuine Mikuni spares or KYB shock absorbers from K.E.W. hopefully you won't need to ask...

 

Their own-brand parts (and especially their engine mechanical componentry) are usually parts which they themselves have commissioned and developed. There's a lot of work and heavy capital investment involved in much of that, and there are very few companies dealing with the cars we are interested in here who invest as much as K.E.W. do. Over recent years they have been putting a lot of effort into filling the gaps that the likes of Nissan and Toyota have created by discontinuing manufacture and supply. I'm personally grateful that they stepped up to the plate with regard to certain S20 engine parts in particular.

 

The comment about the Arizona Z Car alloy sumps always makes me smile (it usually comes up when people want to diss K.E.W.) but does anyone ever stop to think why the AZC version has their name on it but the K.E.W. retailed version doesn't? I think the answer is that they are cast in the same foundry, but AZC doesn't have exclusive rights to them and the actual manufacturer is free to sell to anyone who will stump up the capital investment for another batch to be cast and machined. Too simple for some people to grasp? I the case of the Harada Shokai inlet manifolds, I don't know how anyone with half a clue could imagine that Kameari was the manufacturer: When you buy a Harada manifold from Kameari it comes in the Harada box FFS! The problem here is that various people (especially since the rise of social media) refer to the Harada manifolds as 'Kameari' manifolds because they don't know any better, and it becomes the lingua franca. Harada themselves are a small, family run specialist manufacturing company who prefer to stick to doing what they do best and allowing the likes of K.E.W., V50, Rubber Soul and several others to retail their products.    

 

Lastly I'll just say that in my experience K.E.W. owner Mr Shigeo Mori is a straight-shooter who is as good as his word. There are very few companies who cater for 'our' cars in the right way, and they really ought to be understood and valued by the community they serve. Mori san is a rare exception among Japanese specialists in that he has made great effort to reach out to international customers by dealing with them in English. When I first started buying parts from him it was always conducted in Japanese, but with more and more enquiries from outside Japan he tried to meet them half way by studying English and investing in (at that time expensive!) translation software. Of all the people I have referred to him, I can't think of a single one who has felt let down.            


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#42 HKSZ

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

and for what it's worth those mk63 copies in RHD are cast iron, so probably no performance benefit over hilux calipers you can get for $180



#43 Cozza

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:32 AM

Holy Shit Alan, you sure can talk.
Mind you I'd love to sit down and listen some time over a beer.

#44 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:33 AM

and for what it's worth those mk63 copies in RHD are cast iron, so probably no performance benefit over hilux calipers you can get for $180

 

The original Sumitomo MK63-20S were also cast iron, so the replicas/copies follow that.

 

I'm aware of an instance where a car was DQ'd for running the Toyota Hi-Lux calipers in an FIA-compliant event. The MK63 replicas on the other hand would probably be close enough to the homologation to be legal.



#45 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:35 AM

Holy Shit Alan, you sure can talk.
Mind you I'd love to sit down and listen some time over a beer.

 

I can listen too though.

 

Beer would be good...



#46 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:36 AM

Wish I had some mk63's to weigh.

 

If you get me a cold beer, I'll stick an NOS one on the scales and report back...



#47 Cozza

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:40 AM

Ooh, you old tease.
Pm me your adresss and I'lll see what I can do. It may be a Fosters Export :)

#48 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:50 AM

Ooh, you old tease.
Pm me your adresss and I'lll see what I can do. It may be a Fosters Export :)

 

QBuW0D.jpg

 

That's a vented type MK63-20S, with all hardware (pins, retaining clips and link cable) but no pads.

 

Fosters!? Thanks but no thanks...


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#49 260DET

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:17 AM

This topic took an interesting turn :) As far as the Arizona Z/Kameari sump goes, I'd assume that they were made in the US and supplied to Kameari  through AZ. This assumption is based on the usual  arrangement whereby the original purchaser would submit his design and pay the caster for the mould etc which thereby would become his property. There can be lots more to it, eg the design can be copied, but I see no point in getting into a guessing game without more facts.


Edited by 260DET, 11 May 2017 - 08:17 AM.


#50 dat2kman

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:23 AM

I'd weigh one, with pads, but they are bolted onto the 240RS back axle, in the car, in the shed.
If one wanted lightweight calipers, cant get any lighter than the AP enclosed type four piston units, which are also period correct, in racecar useage, also bolted to the front struts, of same said car.

#51 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:41 AM

This topic took an interesting turn :) As far as the Arizona Z/Kameari sump goes, I'd assume that they were made in the US and supplied to Kameari  through AZ. This assumption is based on the usual  arrangement whereby the original purchaser would submit his design and pay the caster for the mould etc which thereby would become his property. There can be lots more to it, eg the design can be copied, but I see no point in getting into a guessing game without more facts.

 

So where did K.E.W. claim that the alloy sump was their own design/their own IP/their own product? As far as I'm aware they don't make any such claim.  

 

As for guessing games, that seems to be exactly what you are doing. So K.E.W. sell something that AZC also sell, but the K.E.W. retailed version doesn't have AZC's name on it, so it seems logical to me that this is a case of a legitimately sourced product (it's not like K.E.W. are machining off the AZC logo or anything) with money changing hands in the right direction. What's the problem? Isn't it just another cheap shot at a modest company that doesn't deserve it? 



#52 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:43 AM

I'd weigh one, with pads, but they are bolted onto the 240RS back axle, in the car, in the shed.
If one wanted lightweight calipers, cant get any lighter than the AP enclosed type four piston units, which are also period correct, in racecar useage, also bolted to the front struts, of same said car.

 

Not FIA compliant for the S30-series Z though, which is the reason why the MK63 is used in the first place...



#53 dat2kman

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:58 AM

Well, the S30 never came with the MK63 fitted standard, on any factory built or supplied car, so why should they be permitted under FIA rules, for Prduction Sports cars, built to period requirements!

#54 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:09 AM

Well, the S30 never came with the MK63 fitted standard, on any factory built or supplied car, so why should they be permitted under FIA rules, for Prduction Sports cars, built to period requirements!

 

We've got into such circular discussions about your somewhat bizarre local 'Production Sports Cars' class rules before, and ended up going nowhere. I'm afraid I can't make head or tail of it all...

 

It's a simple point. The MK63-20S calipers and discs were homologated for JAF and FIA-compliant Group 3 and Group 4 competition use in period, and if you want to get HTP papers for such a car it must use them. What's "better" or "lighter" is a moot point.



#55 260DET

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:10 AM

So where did K.E.W. claim that the alloy sump was their own design/their own IP/their own product? As far as I'm aware they don't make any such claim.  

 

As for guessing games, that seems to be exactly what you are doing. So K.E.W. sell something that AZC also sell, but the K.E.W. retailed version doesn't have AZC's name on it, so it seems logical to me that this is a case of a legitimately sourced product (it's not like K.E.W. are machining off the AZC logo or anything) with money changing hands in the right direction. What's the problem? Isn't it just another cheap shot at a modest company that doesn't deserve it? 

 

And I never said that Kameari made any such claim or even conteplated making a 'cheap shot' at them. Why would I?

 

Again, there is nothing to indicate anything untoward and there is no reason to think so that I can see. What I mentioned was a normal business practice, changing names on a casting is a simple process which can be done by the caster, it's done legitimately all the time. 



#56 HS30-H

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 01:38 PM

Perhaps you need reminding of what you wrote:

 

It's pretty easy to upset some people  ;)  don't  Kameari sell Arizona Z aluminium sumps under their own name?

 

The point of which was...?



#57 gav240z

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:33 PM

 

QBuW0D.jpg

 

That's a vented type MK63-20S, with all hardware (pins, retaining clips and link cable) but no pads.

 

Fosters!? Thanks but no thanks...

 

So it looks like the MK63 caliper weighs the same as the stock twin pot? I would love for someone to weigh up the Toyota 4x4 S12 or S12W calipers. I suspect they are much heavier.

 

I just recall driving a late 260z 2 seater with these brakes (S12s) fitted and you really feel that extra unsprung weight in the front wheels.

 

PS: Can't believe he offered you Fosters, does anybody actually drink that stuff?



#58 Cozza

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 03:49 PM

It appears so, particularly in the U.K. The following was stolen from Wiki, so it must be correct. ;)

"Foster's annual sales amount to around 500 megalitres worldwide, largely buoyed by UK sales, where it is the second highest selling beer after Carling.[3] While known internationally as the quintessential Australian beer brand, Foster's does not enjoy widespread popularity in Australia compared to other CUB beers such as Victoria Bitter or Carlton Draught.[4]"

I don't have access to accurate scales over 5kg's

#59 260DET

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:30 PM

Perhaps you need reminding of what you wrote:

 

 

The point of which was...?

 

No point, if the sump design is different to AZ's then tell us, I'll happily correct my assumption. 



#60 260DET

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

Fosters slab of cans for $39 at BWS  :  Anyway, lets have some serious stuff.

 






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