240Z exhaust - Hurricane Headers?
Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:38 AM
I wanted to buy the Nissan Competition, or Stahl headers, but physically getting these things is harder than it sounds. The Nissan ones are like hens teeth, and the Stahl are well over A$1000 landed to Australia.
Decided to call Liverpool Exhaust and see what they offer. As agent for Hurricane Headers, they recommended these, which they say are tuned equal length, ceramic coated. I was also planning to use a 2.5" madrel bent stainless system from the header, with a mid mounted resonator and rear mounted muffler. I am only planning single pipe, as I am weight conscious.
Anybody used, or heard of Hurricane headers for their Zeds ? Any experiences welcome... Need to get on with buying this exhaust to get this car running! Is there enough evidence to suggest that the Nissan comp, or Stahl are that superior to any other header? Then of course there is the SWR tuned length option for $1660 (header alone) ...
Not sure where to go on this .. any thoughts / experiences anyone?
Posted 17 July 2010 - 11:20 AM
Tuned-length would be what I consider a minimum in extractors, otherwise I would stick with a factory manifold.
I do not see much difference in any of the tuned-length extractors available here. There are 2 different types on ebay and they are almost identical. ie 1 5/8 inch primaries, 2inch secondaries and 2 1/2 outlet. I have no experience with hurricane, but a pic on their website (for the patrol) looks very similar to the ones on ebay. See below
The equal-length extractors, stahl, MSA 6-1 are meant to be a bit better. Whether it gains 1hp or 10hp over tuned-length, no one can really tell you on your application and whether it is worth the additional cost.
When I replace mine, I will go for the MSA 6-1 landed in Aus for about $600 AUD.
Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:16 PM
Its an interesting subject, and anyone you ask will tell you their product is the best available. I just had a look at that MSA unit, and it really looks the goods.. I wonder if anybody else on here has used it? Another point that I was made aware is that with some of the 29" primary tuned length pipes, you need to remove your inlet, and exhaust to change the clutch, something I had not considered.
I spoke with Stewart Wilkins during the week who suggested that their hand made equal length headers had been developed at much cost, but once sorted were used on a 2.85l race motor, that Stewart said had performed like no other. He said the usual flattish part at about 3500-4000rpm was very improved and the thing just went beserk all through the range. At $1660 (including ceramic coating) though, you want some impressive form. For me, unless i was eeking out every single possible HP for race application, this does seem a little OTT, but its good to know it is available for those that need it.
Ideally, i'd pick up a set of Nissan Competition, or Stahl and mate this to a single 2.5" stainless system. Now if only I could get these things locally, it'd be right ! Might go and have a look into those MSA items.
Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:51 PM
The 2000 rpm resonant boom seems to be experienced by everyone who goes for the 2.5 inch exhaust with there NA Zed. I had a 2.5 inch on my mild L26 and tried to do everything to get the boom to stop. Quieter tri-flow muffler, one, then two resonators near gearbox and it was always there and drove me crazy. Apparently it is caused by gases travelling too slowly (hence occurs at low rpm) and the only fix is a smaller pipe to speed up the gases. I went back to a 2inch pipe (one resonator and a straight-through muffler) and did not lose any power that I could feel and there is NO boom at all.
For a serious street engine, then yes 2.5 for max. power but be prepared for the "you know what".
Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:55 PM
Isn't it just a matter of adding the resonator at the correct location to change the resonant frequency?
Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:20 PM
Also I don't like how they have 2 in 1 on the joiner pipe - too sharp of angles see
The other issue with a number of headers is the flange thickness - many are just not thick enough to mate to the intake manifold with out welding on tags on the washers = PITA if you ask me - better to have something with a thicker flange - only ones I have found like this are JDM ones I have imported and a local made Nissan USA Competition replica (he will make then with a thicker flange at request)
Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:37 PM
I spoke to Nat today (who in a prior life build the Bathurst race alfa's, including the 6cyl GTVs) and he simply suggested we use a resonator behind the headers, and then a good quality sports muffler at the rear, just ahead of the tail pipe. I agree, the '2k boom' sounds God awful, but I suspect it might be able to be overcome with careful planning, and to use under 2.5" on my motor will always have me wondering how much HP i've chopped off in going to either 2" or 2.25". Having said that, if it does happen, I will know I was warned!
When I called Liverpool Exhaust today (that do a lot of really top shelf custom and race cars and boats in Sydney) Jimmy the owner got on the line and we had a good chat. I told him I want a highly effective high end sports exhaust, but not one that was raucous and plain loud, and that i didn't need to be able to see myself in it. He instantly suggested; ceramic coated equal length hurricane headers, mandrel bent 2.5" stainless system, resonator, and rear sports muffler, same recipe as Nat dreamed up.
I think i'll wait and get the Nissan Comp, or Stahl manifold, and then take it to Jimmy to get the rest done. I have seen the quality of these guys work and its really over the top .. all the welds are cleaned up and everything is 100%.
Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:08 PM
Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:38 PM
spend say $6-800 and the money you save Im sure you can re-invest on "other" go-fast bits...spend your bickies to give you maximum return, ie most bang for your buck. The difference in Kw gain between $600 extractors and $1600 extractors surely cant be justified. Spend your money wisely....my 5 cents
Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:24 PM
I never said I was planning on buying those headers .. I said that SWR makes them for all out race motors (which mine is not). For me, they are now what i need for the street, and even if I did need them, I'd struggle to justify paying that much. I think if you wanted to win targa in a mega modified car, they might be your thing, but not me a fast road car like mine. Its good to know that these things are out there, if anyone serious enough needs them.
I think the Nissan ones are the go .. just got to find a set !
Posted 17 July 2010 - 09:00 PM
As far as a good exhaust shop being able to fix the resonance, they simply can't. The sound resonates through the cabin. The only fix is a smaller diameter exhaust. Trust me, I spent lots of money figuring this out the hard way.
Posted 18 July 2010 - 08:47 AM
I actually had two sets of those when I got my car, and they are a fairly generic design. I was really looking for equal length pipes with 29" or so primaries. I think these ones you posted are a good start, but might leave you a bit short on HP at the top. Having said that, there is no questioning the value .. that is a good header for the money.
Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:37 AM
Posted 18 July 2010 - 04:00 PM
I REALLY like the Stahl Headers but just couldn't afford them when I was looking at buying due to dollar and high shipping cost.
I spoke to Stahl and got all their specs (pipe length, diameters, etc) and got a local guy to make these up:
Here they are against the standard headers:
and here is the before and after dyno graph. +12 RWHP, +35 RWNm
Cost for making them and ceramic coating was about $1700 IIRC.
The issue with anything from the states is that it is designed for a LHD car. The LHD cars have to contend with steering mechanisms and other gadgetry that isn't installed on that side of the RHD zeds. This means, by restriction, these headers are NEVER perfect for a RHD car since you are wasting space avoiding things that are installed on the other side of our RHD zeds. You should find a guy who can custom make them and get them done properly for your application to get the best result. The guy who built mine used the Stahl specs as a guide and adjusted to suite what he thought was a better design and our requirements (Mid range torque, high range power) and he slightly altered the collector lengths and so-on to suit. I can ask again but I'm fairly certain the guy I used kept a 'mold' so can knock up some more for a bit cheaper and faster.
I wont post any more pics (going a little over-board) but this album here shows the fitment and clearance of the custom extractors for anyone interested
Posted 18 July 2010 - 04:14 PM
Posted 18 July 2010 - 06:59 PM
`hi i am the engine builder of the motor swm is taking about . his pipes are great on a race engine when you have done every thing else and you are chasing as much horsepower as you can get. I found and extra 15kw with his pipes and a 3'' exhaust over pacemaker extractors and 2 1/2'' exhaust. 15kw is well worth the money, the motor now has 190kw at the tyres 2.8L.
Great to have you on here finally, Peter
I take it your referring to Noel's 240Z?
Posted 18 July 2010 - 08:18 PM
Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:06 PM
I am getting very anxious .. am needing to pick up the motor this weekend or next, and Nat's saying "what are we doing re exhaust".. my response, ummm well errrr ... ???
As I said, I wanted Nissan Comp, or Stahl, but reading your responses, especially Whittie's, it sounds like importing from the USA is not the way to go .. at all ... does anyone have any experience with this??? Whittie do you actually know if the stahl are a poor fit for RHD cars or are you just speculating.
DOES ANYONE HAVE STAHL HEADERS ON A RHD 240Z ??? HOW DO THEY SOUND AND GO ?? DO THEY FIT OK ??
Looking at Whittie's pipes, I WANT A SET ... but they are freakishly exxy ... Whittie I sent you a PM about details if you get a chance ...
PZG, I am keen to know the details of your set, if you can post pics and sizes etc ..
Also, Peter MC26, I PM's you to see get some more detail on your SWR pipes ...
At the end of the day, I need to know am I going to regret getting 29" tuned length pipes for my 'fast street' Brown Hornet ...
What ones do i get - got to say, looking at Whittie's they look great, appear to fit extremely well, and despite cost ooze quality...
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