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260z 2+2 suspension replacement....


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#1 Shan

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 11:30 AM

Hi guys,

Before anyone flames me - I have read through previous posts on the topic.

I wanted to open more recent, melbourne based discussion about options and places where they can be purchased.

First off - my dilemma is regarding what to do.  Coilover or upgraded standard setup?

Let me say I will not be racing the car, however I do plan to increase engine power.  Nothing too radical though. 
Will be more show than go.  "Show" being the point where WHEEL/RIM choices come into it.

I have been doing my head in thinking about all this.  Looking at the stance of various Z's - the wheel types and sizes used.  With and without ZG's.  Stretched, not stretched. Wheel sizes.  16" with limited tyre choices or 17's and more options, but rubbing issues.  Various offsets...aaaarggh!  Seriously - really been struggling with direction.

I know I can re-oil the wetlegs, put lowering springs on and get adequate performance on the cheap.
I know I can upgrade the standard suspension for a "better matched" spring and shock, perhaps allowing me to lower a little further again for that low, agressive "look".
I know I can rip all of this out and put in coilovers.  Perhaps overkill, but flexibility in many areas (and performance) making up for the cost.

I know various wheels are available Rota's, CCW, Arrow, BOZE, WAts, superlites etc, etc which the 19/13 offsets allowing for nice wide and deep dish wheels on std setup (if I want to chop the guards).  So there are options there - I understand that (need $$$ but options are there).

However - as I understand it, going coilovers will open up a LOT more options to me in relation to Rims, offset and tyre size.  Particularly if I change my mind and want to change wheels later.

I am leaning more towards coilover, but I understand it is not a simple upgrade and requires a bit of work (not to mention cost).

I would like some direction on "current costs" for coilover?  Also be nice to know where I can get some effective pricing in MELBOURNE?  Apparently the zshop do conversions, but hear varied reports about the workshop, so any other options would be appreciated.

To wrap up:
Want low and aggressive stance (mostly for show to be honest).
Will want to fit deep dish 16" or 17".
Leaning towards ZG flares (Jays 2+2 in the UK being a bit of inspiration look-wise).

Experienced opinions on this suspension/wheel dilemma appreciated.

Cheers.
Shan




#2 Zedman240®

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:49 PM

I'd get a coilover kit off Benzed, find a competent metal fab place to section the strut (remove ~25mm from the strut tube) and get a good set of shocks like Koni etc. Reason is, you can get the car low, and still have enough suspension travel for to suit the great roads arond Melbourne. Plus you can easily fit 8" wide wheels to fit without any issues. Even wider if you plan on using flares.

#3 Shan

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 03:30 PM

Hmmmm.....

Only catch is I have nowhere to work on my car ATM.  Living with my girlfriend - inner city townhouse.  We have 2 car parks, but Body Corp. says we are not supposed to work on cars there.  I already push it a little as it is when I've got seats and stuff pulled out of the car for interior restoration I have almost finished.  Having the car up on blocks for more than a day would get me into the sh*t for sure...

So....

1. I buy the coil over sleeve kit from Ben (planning on buying some other Zbits from him anyway).
2. Then I take it to a suitable place for them section the strut and fit for me with appropriate shocks.

You think I can find a place that will fit Ben's coilover kit for me?  Any suggestions? 

I know some places get "funny" and are not interested about fitting kits/parts you provide to them....

Thanks for the input so far.

#4 Zedman240®

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:38 PM

If you can't have the car on blocks or stands, the only other $$$ option is to buy a second set of struts and have them modified while your originals are still holding up the car. Unless you move it somewhere else..Then just swap them over.

If you just take the struts (out of the car) to a place where I did mine they should do it. Metalworks in Moorabbin. They did mine and did a very good job of it. If you go to a suspension place, and supply the parts, they probably won't like that...

#5 Roberto

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 07:45 PM

If you take your struts off and send them to Ben (courier or drop them off), he will mount the coilovers for you at a set price.  That's what I would do....

Ben, are you still doing this for AusZcar members?

#6 Shan

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:03 AM

Like I indicated in the other post - really do not have the working space to be leaving my car in bits for long periods.  I know otomoto have that service (hopefully still do), but I can't have my car sitting on blocks for more than a weekend (and even then I might get "spoken to"). 

Dimitri pretty much confirmed what I was already thinking re. coil overs.  I think the cost will be worth it - if only for the flexibity it offers with wheels/sizes and personally - I think the right wheels can really make a car - so having options is important in that area.

Getting my hands on some other struts and sending them off is not a bad idea at all Dimitri.  Just wondering how much that will set me back?  Depending on how cheap I can get struts for - could be the best idea so far for my situation.

Hmmmm....maybe a nice melbourne member can LOAN me some struts??? : ) I will happily replace them with my own struts and some cash or a nice bottle of grog as a "thankyou".  Would allow me to send off to Ben and get this done with as little fuss to the body corporate as possible.

Anyone got spare 260z 2+2 struts available?  Mine is a '76 (not sure if there are differences in those prior).

Cheers for the help so far guys.

Shan.

#7 Zedman240®

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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:38 AM

I've posted in your wanted section; I have a 76 2+2 for parts but I haven't started dismantling yet..You are more than welcome to use the struts till you have yours ready to install.

#8 Shan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:03 PM

OK.  Revisiting one of my old threads.

Managed in the end to get the suspension out of my car.  Currently on a hoist in the shop who agreed to leave it there for now. 
Had saved my $$$, had packaged up my struts for shipment and was about to send the up to BenZed to get the HSD/TT Damper conversion done...but...
appears that Otomoto have run out of TT dampers and do not know when they are getting the next order coming in - TBA.  Grrrrrrr.  My timing - as always - is impeccable.

Car cannot stay where it is for long, so need to look at other options now.

So was going through my options again and wanted to get some clarification before actioning.....

Although out of TT dampers, Otomoto DO have the HSD sleeve/coilover kits.
So in line with the previous options listed on this post - I was thinking of doing the following:
1. Get the struts sectioned as Dimitri suggested.  25mm from front and back struts.  "Metalworks" he mentioned in Moorabbin is not far from my work - so can drop them off in a lunch break.
2. Get the coilover kit from ben.  Comes with everything I need including the springs.
3. Get the correct insert/damper to suit spring rates. 
4. Have a crack at fitting it all together (based on the info here on the forum + kind advisors - should be simple enough).

So - what I was hoping confirm with you all was the following.....
Some obvious questions - I know - however just want to clarify what I have read is correct ok.

1. Sectioning struts? 
- I just tell the shop to section 25mm from the middle of each strut and they will do the rest? Anything else I need to tell them?
- Also confirming I get them to take same 25mm off front AND back?  Should I cut more out for greater suspension travel or is 25mm plenty?
**Will use Metalworks as Dimitri suggested.

2. Coilover kit
- seems otomoto provide options with different spring rates.  I checked and they have all springs available in stock, so can pick what I want.  Suggestions?  I will be mainly road driving/cruising with occasional hard driving. I do not want a ride that knocks my teeth out when I hit a bump.  I know Lurch suggests in a post to get 6kg rears and 5kg fronts - will this provide a suitable comfort level without being too soft?
- want to lower my car as well.  I assume the HSD springs provided with the kit are a "lowered" type of spring yeah?  Or am I wrong?

3. Inserts.
- Koni's seem to provide the most bang for buck from what I have read.  KYB and Billsteins are also mentioned.  Based on my above requirement for lowering, but considering comfort/bit of fun over "extreme" performance - which is the best insert for me?
- Where is the best place to purchase and get them "valved" correctly?


Thanks as always!
Shan







#9 Gareth. J.

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:50 PM

They may be able to shorten the strut to the right height then cut a new thread inside the end. If not just as you say, cut section from the centre then weld it back together. The sleeves are a snug fit so the outside of the strut needs to be flush.

I had lowered King springs at 220lbs, these were fine to use with regular KYB (GR-2 i thing they are) shocks and provided a sporty/firm but compliant ride. Those inserts are for a standard length strut  ;)  I got KYB AGX's (for a Z31) from Datsport, arrived in 2days , they are 4way externally adjustable, right length for sectioned struts and cheaper than Konis. You will need the strut top hat locating hole drilled out a bit bigger to suit these. Make sure you have new bump stops fitted too.

I currently have the otomoto c/o kit with 6gk/mm (340lbs) springs, KYB AGX's in the front, they are stiff on the street but it handles like a go kart  ;D , I would recommend 6kg for track work only. I'd get the 4kg springs all round.

#10 FLEXZED

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:55 PM

Hey

i just did mine and i WOULDNT section the struts until you have the inserts, purchase the inserts then you get a better idea of what amount to section the struts

i will be putting up same pics of my sectioning in my members journal next week

Loui


#11 Gareth. J.

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:02 PM

Good point Loui!

The KYB AGX's needed 30mm sectioned from the strut, But I would check each strut individually. Measure twice, cut once........ I think thats the rule!

#12 Shan

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:15 PM

Thanks for the great advice guys.
Gareth - I now recall you mentioning these KYB AGX's in another post.  4 way externally adjustable sounds VERY attractive as well.  Just did some research on them and they seem like a great alternative.  Fair price as well.

So if I was to go down this path, you are suggesting the following:

Springs = 4kg
Inserts = KYB AGX's
Struts = sectioned 30mm to suit AGX's
Other = new bump stops + drill out strut top locating hole + Benzed coilovers

Doing this should provide me with 4way adjustable coilovers with nice road handling.

Have I got that right?


#13 FLEXZED

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:13 PM

Springs = 4kg
Inserts = KYB AGX's
Struts = sectioned 30mm to suit AGX's
Other = new bump stops + drill out strut top locating hole + Benzed coilovers

Doing this should provide me with 4way adjustable coilovers with nice road handling.

Have I got that right?

i would say  spot on

Loui

#14 Gareth. J.

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:31 PM

Yep. Just double check YOUR measurements before you chop the struts.

#15 KatoKid

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 10:43 AM

Shan, really like the way your going about this and the way you've written it as you're asking the same questions as I'm thinking. Well done.

Have my own question to add....how would Vic Roads approved engineering assessor view coil overs? Are they legal...particularly with sectioning which requires cutting and welding?

#16 Shan

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:41 AM

Just to throw a spanner in the works - anyone seen these before:

http://www.k-mac.com...oil_jackers.htm

Dang!

#17 Shan

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:47 PM

KatoKid - that was a good question also.

According to the posts I have seen - coilover replacement is legal.
One you section the struts and all that - is another matter altogether.
It may get past the relevant inspectors.  Depends on how tidy the work is.  How the hell a vic roads inspector will know if a strut has been sectioned - I don't know.  How they know a Datsun strut does not look like that from the factory is what I woud be interested to know.

Confirmation on this would be helpful.

#18 FLEXZED

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 02:15 PM

Just to throw a spanner in the works - anyone seen these before:

http://www.k-mac.com...oil_jackers.htm

Dang!


Shan, i have been down to K -mac and had a look at the adjustable camber ( they are not very helpfull )i also  had a look at these coil overs and in my opinion would do ben's coilovers any day

KatoKid - that was a good question also.

According to the posts I have seen - coilover replacement is legal.
One you section the struts and all that - is another matter altogether.
It may get past the relevant inspectors.  Depends on how tidy the work is.  How the hell a vic roads inspector will know if a strut has been sectioned - I don't know.  How they know a Datsun strut does not look like that from the factory is what I woud be interested to know.

Confirmation on this would be helpful.


Coilovers are legal as far as i know in nsw ,  i have spoken to my engineer and he confirms this, there is NO WAY of knowing if the strut is sectioned as the threaded sleeve goes over the welded part and then it is welded top  and bottom, my way of thinking is you have ADDED strength to the strut by going this

my 2.2 cents worth ( thats including gst)

Loui

#19 Shan

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:49 PM

And a valuable 2.2cents worth it is!  :D

So you reckon the K-Mac camber adjustment is not worth looking at?  Was considering what I was going to do about camber adjustment - particularly since I plan to lower the zed a fair bit.

That was my other dilemma - did many of you guys bother with camber adjustment after lowering? 
Should I bother with camber if vehicle is mostly for general road use?

I was thinking about tyre wear and safety etc etc, but I am beginning to think that maybe it is not that necessary.  Does not seem like the majority have bothered (unless track work is involved).
Would appreciate thoughts on that.

For the record - I am leaning towards the following:

BenZed Coilovers. 
-Seem to be the best value around that I can find.

4KG Springs.
- Based on comments (so far anyway), the 4KG should provide a comfortable ride for general road use without being too soft.

Insert
Koni Yellow externally adjustable - was thinking of saving a buck or two with KYB AGX's, but if I am doing this - might as well go the whole nine yards.  Koni seem to be the favoured insert amongst forum members - with the exception of the odd KYB fan.  Going with the numbers on this one I think.

Sectioning struts (after measuring). 
Suspect it will be about 25-30mm from what I have read.

New bump stops.
Not a necessity, but extra insurance against insert damage.

We have also concluded (kind of) that:
a) coilover are OK for Roadworthy
b) sectioning not ok BUT very hard to tell once conversion is done.  I reckon a good chance to get away with it (each person should make their own judgement call on that though).
c) camber adjustment - still waiting to decide on that.  Will let a few more peeps weight in I reckon...

:D


#20 bryan3976

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:42 PM

a) coilover are OK for Roadworthy
b) sectioning not ok BUT very hard to tell once conversion is done.  I reckon a good chance to get away with it (each person should make their own judgement call on that though)

no and no they dont pass unless your lucky cutting and welding requires engineering




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