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ScottyB

240Z Coilovers/Camber Plates Options?

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Ok, so been doing a bit of research here and at HybridZ.  I am looking to put ZG Flares on my 240Z and most likely 17 x 9.5 -19 Rota RB's unless I can find something else I like?

 

I will want to lower the car, with plenty of adjustability in the suspension (coilover), yet also get adjustment in front and rear camber.  Lowering the Z I realise will give me neg camber, but determined only by height obviously.  I have seen the weld in versions, but found these Ground Control plates and wanted to know peoples thoughts:

 

CCPZ_dp.jpg

Ground Control Racing Camber / Caster Plates

 

Adds camber and caster adjustment, 100% aircraft bearings. (front and rear fitment available)

 

This kit is designed to bolt into the Z, and no welding is required*. The reason for this is that the Z cars have several layers of sheetmetal in the strut tower, so any welding in the strut area is bad engineering practice.

 

Every component is anodized or plated, including fasteners. Adds extra travel to avoid excessive bottoming out, this is a very well engineered product.

 

Camber and caster are separately adjustable by sliding the mounts, without removing any components from the car. The priority of this design is to allow fast, repeatable alignment changes at the track.

 

The Ground Control camber plates feature two sets of bearings, a proprietary bearing, made to our specs by Aurora in the USA, which allows for articulation of the shock shaft. This spherical bearing is very understressed, as the Ground Control design does NOT support the weight of the car on the spherical bearing. Instead, the weight of the car is supported by a completely separate articulating needle bearing, which is also manufactured for Ground Control in the USA.

 

*There is NO welding required for the GC Z camber/caster plates, because the Z cars are one of the very worst cars to weld on (lots of undercoating between several layers of sheet metal).

 

There IS drilling and cutting involved. The camber plate and strut tower area on Z cars is pretty complicated, so we actually designed the GC camber/caster plate to be easy to install as part of the original design parameters. One example is that the mounting holes can be drilled without removing the front fenders. Many other Z camber plates require the front fenders to be removed in order to drill under the flange that protrudes into the engine bay.

 

Essentially what is done is that a series of holes are drilled according to the directions, and then the holes are "connected" with a jigsaw. The resulting cutout is the area in which the camber and caster are adjusted (left-right, front-rear).

 

I am considering going HSD Coilovers, but not 100% sure yet.

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I would love to know how they do caster with that unit? It looks like it only has in and out ie camber changes not front and back and the lower plate does not look to have multi-holes on a offset bush. So how do they get the caster adjustment? Thoughts?

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I was looking at them but they are a bit expensive for the full set.

Also you would have to modify your strut tops and my strut braces will not bolt up without modification.

 

I have been looking at the Motor Sport Auto ones from America.

 

I will be using "Camber Adjustment Bushes" and "Camber Adjustment Strut Tops"

No modifications needed.

 

This will give me 3.5 degrees of adjustment between the two items above.

 

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/PSDC

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NZedder

 

you could either get camber or castor out of those plates, but not at the same time lol

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I have been looking at the Kmac items.

 

http://www.k-mac.com.au/

 

No mods needed to the strut top - well priced. Ultimately probably not as much adjustability as hacking the strut top. But with some eccentric bushes in the lower mounts it should be enough to get things right.

post-1901-144023570297_thumb.jpg

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It looks like the middle right bolt hole is slotted. I assume they are all slotted a touch for caster, cant see you getting much caster out of that if that is the case though.

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There is also EMI racing plates. Check out betamotorsports for those

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how much adjustment do those k-mac plates have in them?

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hmmm, looks like I can do more homework as the Z I was lining up to collect next Saturday has now - stopped working.  Engine blew.  Get my deposit back and on the hunt for a sub 10k 240 project again.  :o

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I have a set of the K-Mac items and next weekend I might have all the parts I need to install the front suspension. They are not cheap - very $$ in fact but I wanted a complete bolt in that would give me both camber and caster. I have adjustable lower arms and TC rod to get more adjustment - but my aim is to have two setups - street and track then use the k-mac tops to change the camber/caster from the two settings with having to adjust the TC rods or LCA + adjusting caster/camber as this should be easier to move between the two setups.

 

That pic of the k-mac above is a proto-type and only does camber (might be the rear which only does camber) the fronts do both camber and caster. The caster is done via the 3 bolts are on a plate that move back (they are handed ie there is a LH and RH unit) via a kind of kidney bean shape. As you do up the nuts on the top it locks into place. Very cool solution and works well.

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The Dollar amount?

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I have the EMI plates in the front of my car. They do both caster and camber as well as lowering the by about 25mm. There is no cutting to make them fit. They are a little less adjustable than the sliding type but I'm happy with them so far.

I bought all my suspension from John Coffee and highly recommend him. He was very helpfull and fast to answer any questions.

 

When I was looking around 8 months ago, I went to KMAC to ask about there camber plates. They told me there plates cost around $600 a pair, double what most plates cost!

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I have the weld in Techno Toy Tuning ones... Strong... But a fair amount of labor. I also used the ground control coilover sleeves and had the struts shortened. All up, I have a fair amount of adjustment, but you have to be careful that the towers are cut right and the camber plates welded in right or you end up without uniformity in the adjustments, but it can all be sorted with a wheel alignment anyways.

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Does anyone know where to source the central strut retaining nut? "tube' nut/ 'barrel nut'

I have new Koni reds, and JIC strut tops, but the actual nut to finish it all off is very hard to find! The only thing I can see to be done is get a custom set made at $120 per hour plus materials....

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Give "Toperformance" a call in Vermont, Melbourne. Just tell them what insert and what diameter strut tube and they should have them. If you are stuck, I have a small collection but which type do you need?

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I spoke to toperformance, they couldnt help, the said to get a set of nissan wheelnuts and get the outer DIA machined down.

 

The outer DIA needs to be 18mm, the internal thread is M12x1.25. Actual length of the 'shaft' is 19mm.

 

If you can help that would be stella! I will check with specialty fastners tonight on the way home too...

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Interesting discussion, how did you get on?

 

The thought occurred to me that you might find a stepped mag wheel nut that would do the job... maybe with a little bit of filing?

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I spoke to toperformance, they couldnt help, the said to get a set of nissan wheelnuts and get the outer DIA machined down.

 

The outer DIA needs to be 18mm, the internal thread is M12x1.25. Actual length of the 'shaft' is 19mm.

 

If you can help that would be stella! I will check with specialty fastners tonight on the way home too...

That is what I did on my setup - I have K-Mac tops but wanted to get them to sit lower than the provided Nut/bottom spacer they provided. The issue the nut K-Mac supplied only has the thread in the lower part = the part I need to turn down :(

 

So I did just as stated above - got a stock Nissan wheel nut, had that turned down to fit into the spherical ball and leaving a good bit of the 19mm hex on the top - this worked perfect and the engineer was happy with this setup too :)

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Just tagging another question onto this thread.

 

would replacing the existing rubber strut tops on top of the factory zed struts with after market camber tops lower the ride height some what?

I need another 20-30mm to lower my car to where I want it but the spring perch is already at its lowest setting on the threaded sleeve. Im thinking if I swap to something like the camber tops otomoto sells I might lose some height that way?

 

http://www.otomoto.com.au/HDSystems/sleevekits.htm

 

I know lurch has swapped the front tops onto the rear to lose some height on the rear but I want the front lower.

 

Cheers

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RB30X - replacing the stut tops with custom should lower the height I think.  Depends on which one's you go for though obviously.

 

To be honest - this camber/castor adjustment does my head in a little!  :-\

 

QUESTION - what is the easiest way to correct the negative camber which is a result of lowering in a Zed?

 

Otomoto HSD "Universal" camber tops are no good for Zeds as RB30x has advised - so my initial plan is out.

 

Withoutout going "weld-in units" - what are our options?

 

Mentioned so far are:

 

1. EMI - http://www.betamotorsports.com/products/products_main.php?cat=10&scat1=47&scat2=39

2. K-Mac -  http://www.k-mac.com/pages/newprods/datsun/datsun.htm

3. Motorsport Auto - http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/PSDC15

4. Ground Control - (limited castor adjustment) http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=151/CA=191

 

I got some prices from Ray Bell for the K-mac option.  $400 per pair.  Dunno.  Pretty pricey, but they look the business.  Bolt-on option is attractive.

 

Since I am a massive rookie when it comes to this stuff, I would not mind some more advice on what other options there are?

 

The technotoy (http://www.technotoytuning.com/productlist.php?vehicleid=11) control arms must provide some camber adjustment as well though yeah?  Or am I way off there?

 

So which options will provide the most benefit for camber? 

 

I assume going strut top style adjustment for front is more necessary for camber AND castor (castor is pretty important for effective steering).

Is castor as important for the rears though?  Camber only ok for the rear perhaps? 

 

Any advice here appreciated.

 

Shan

 

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Giving my previous post a nudge.

 

Gotta be someone on here who can provide some direction on my above post i.e :

 

"QUESTION - what is the easiest way to correct the negative camber which is a result of lowering in a Zed?"

 

Strut tops?

Adjustable Control Arms?

Camber/Castor necessity on rears?

 

Really need some advice here.  :-\

 

Thnx!

Shan

 

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