S30Mike Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Hey guys, As title suggests, im after some seriously better suspension, ive decided ive had enough of all this rolling around! Im wondering what options ive got, id like a firm setup, and i really dont care about having a rough stiff ride. Are there any coilover setups that i can get, or do i need to just settle for a decent set of shocks/springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.R. Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 With 2+2's it makes it a bit tricky as there are no off the shelf coil-over kits available (to my knowledge). My suggestion is lowered King/Fulcrum springs & re-oiled wet legs (damper inserts) with ATF fluid. I did this to my old Bus & I regularly had people commenting on how stiff it was - but it wasn't harsh at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtopxsecret6 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 if you want to stop body roll.. upgrade you sway bars.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted August 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 25, 2009 If you want a real firm ride, you may have to get springs made; Kings lowered heavy duty are only around 170-200 lb/in when you need approx 300lb/in and ready for the track with as Lurch mentioned heavier oil in the struts. A 22mm front roll bar and 16mm rear bar should be a good place to start. Then run around a track and have some fun! I had some springs made locally for around $300 for the four. With a another zed, I used a heavier hydraulic oil in the struts but with 350lb/in springs....let me say it re-adjusted some discs in my back while driving on the road.. You found bumps where you never thought they existed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoota G Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 How much fluid do the wet legs take per unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.R. Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Around 300 to 320ml, IIRC Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zedman240® Posted August 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just looked up Fact service manual, for a 240Z anyway, 290cc for the front and 320cc for the rear. With a 260 being a larger diameter, Haynes manual doesn't go that far into detail, you'll need a Nissan FWS manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxhead Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Cant you get aftermarket shocks for the 2+2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerat Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I personally like to use a German brand ATF, I've heard a lot of the supercar teams, HRT, 888 etc use American ATF in there car's. Theres a couple smaller ATF makers in Australia who are getting excellent results in both the Gravel and Tarmac rally championships. One is an ex multiple Australian Rally champ, and the other worked for the Datsun/Nissan works team. Both are worth looking at. I've never used Koni brand ATF, but I was told the Yellow ATF works a lot better than the traditional red ATF with this brand. It is criticle to match your spring rates with your ATF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxhead Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I have found hypo 140 really brings up the dampening on the shocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoota G Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Around 300 to 320ml, IIRC Mark. In other words 7/8th's of a stubbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scando Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I personally like to use a German brand ATF, I've heard a lot of the supercar teams, HRT, 888 etc use American ATF in there car's. Theres a couple smaller ATF makers in Australia who are getting excellent results in both the Gravel and Tarmac rally championships. One is an ex multiple Australian Rally champ, and the other worked for the Datsun/Nissan works team. Both are worth looking at. I've never used Koni brand ATF, but I was told the Yellow ATF works a lot better than the traditional red ATF with this brand. It is criticle to match your spring rates with your ATF. LOL, Boring night Hodgo? Seriously why does everybody think stiff is good for handling? I run 16mm bars front and rear and around 200lb springs front and rear. In my class I've always been down on power but made up for it because the car squats and puts the power to the ground while the others are sliding around like drift cars with their stiff springs and bars. Hodgo's car was a very very quick tarmac rally car that got some excellent results, guess what? 200lb springs. If you're running in Marque Sports, etc on full slicks then that's a different story. But for road use and the occasional track day, don't go overboard. The lowered King Springs sound perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260Coupe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Another option is to order the standard replacement King springs (same rate as the lowered springs ) and then cut them down by approx 2.5 coils (adjust to suit ride hide and strutt tops) .........This will uprate them by around 30+%.......I measured mine at 220lb front and 200lb rear , with the KYB gas the ride is very firm yet not harsh, body roll is well controlled and with 1/2 deg neg camber, the zed will turn in well with little body roll............perfect for road and the occasional track day. This is a very inexpensive suspension mod with springs and shocks available for around $700...... and you can fit yourself if you are handy on the spanners ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Another option is to order the standard replacement King springs (same rate as the lowered springs ) and then cut them down by approx 2.5 coils (adjust to suit ride hide and strutt tops) .........This will uprate them by around 30+%.......I measured mine at 220lb front and 200lb rear , with the KYB gas the ride is very firm yet not harsh, body roll is well controlled and with 1/2 deg neg camber, the zed will turn in well with little body roll............perfect for road and the occasional track day. This is a very inexpensive suspension mod with springs and shocks available for around $700...... and you can fit yourself if you are handy on the spanners ! Or get the springs made at the right height and rate. Unless you know what your doing cutting springs isn't a real good idea and in Qld anyway is illegal. I have run cut springs in a race car, but it was done by somebody who knew what they were doing and the rest of suspension was set up to suit. We only did it because we couldn't get a spring to suit low enough or stiff enough, ended up with a about a 4" drop from standard and a spring rate on the rear of around 900lb's on the rear and about 500lb on the front, not a nice thing to drive anywhere but the track, and even then crossing a white line gave me concussion the car was that stiff. Here's some reasons lifetd from a Pulsar forum... Cutting springs does a few bad things. 1. changes the spring rate of the spring (less coils effects how it works) 2. reduces the height of the spring which may cause it to not be captive at full droop of the suspension which could cause it to become dislodged and may result in a serious accident. 3. spring no longer properly locates in the spring seat as designed and can move, rub, and generally cause problems. Rubbing can lead to a spring seat failure. 4. springs are engineered to be a certain height with tapered coils at the ends to properly seat. 5. if it was safe it would be done by race teams rather than buying another set of $400 per pair springs that are 10mm shorter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260Coupe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Yep all very good points for a race car and if you know the exact coil length you need and the ride height etc. order the springs straight from the supplier For a road car however , if done with some science and correctly there should be no issue with shortening a spring (with reason of course..IMHO and those of many a suspension "expert" anyways) However........I ensured that the springs were still captive at full suspension travel (ie when the car was jacked up) so no chance of becoming unseated. The springs were properly seated with the ends ground to suit the seats and the ends were steel "cable tied" to the seats to futher prevent unseating As far as safety is concerned I spoke with supplier and King springs themselves and whilst the said it was not ideal , they have not had any fail if the springs are seated correctly and it cannot become unseated during normal travel. The corner weight and setup of a Zed does not put huge loads on springs as the fulcrum points are close to the wheels ie the struts are outboard near the wheels.. The choice is yours and appropriate to your budget and application Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxhead Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 So you cant buy after market shocks for the 2+2 anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr240z Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 So you cant buy after market shocks for the 2+2 anymore You can buy aftermarket shocks for almost any car....So yes to your answer. Koni's, KYB, Monroe, etc they all make them. Just go to your local spare parts place and tell them what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_sushi Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 i got kybs, lowered king springs and all new suspension rubbers for my 77 2+2 for about $1000 a few years back. Haven't got the car running yet so I can't tell you how they are :S Shocks: KYB (Kayaba) Gas Shock Absorber Excel-G Part No. 361002 Front Springs: King Springs (Formula Chassis Parts) Part No. KDFL-04 Haven't got the back springs part numebrs sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260Coupe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 KDRS 09 (low) and KDRS 05 (standard) go here http://www.kingsprings.com/catalogue/kings_master_catalogue.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerat Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Good advice guy's. Good quality shock's aren't expensive and are worth every cent. The Koni's seem very popular with members on this forum and the red ones are very cheap for what you are getting. I run Bilsteins in my 1600 and with some good advice on springs they transformed it, after using both Tokico and KYB's in the past. A mate of mine just got a pair of Bilsteins for his rallycar a couple of weeks ago, valved up and ready to go for around $600, cheap! And yeah Bond'o not much on telly last night.....but Myf's on tonight!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr240z Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Koni classic's where the best investment i've ever made for the Zed but weren't cheap at around $1,500 for all corners.. But worth every cent in my option.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scando Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 My car has Koni reds and I've been very happy with them. I'm sure Hodgo can vouch from targa wrest point that it sits very nice over the bumpy stuff with no nasty rebounding. A previous daily driver of mine had KYB's and was horrid. I don't think it was the fault of the shocks though. A previous owner had setup the suspension with springs too stiff for the shocks. As a result the shocks couldn't control them and it jumped across the road at any sign of a bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 A previous daily driver of mine had KYB's and was horrid. I don't think it was the fault of the shocks though. A previous owner had setup the suspension with springs too stiff for the shocks. As a result the shocks couldn't control them and it jumped across the road at any sign of a bump. That's the hardest part of getting the setup right, matching the dampening of the shocks to the springs, in both bump and rebound. With my Z I have externally adjustable Konis which at the moment are set to the middle in adjustment. I need to get out on the track and do a proper test day to set them up to match the springs precisely. When purchased they were valved to suit the spring rates I have but now I just have to tweak them to get it just right. Hopefully next week I will have a good shakedown on the track at QR and get a feel for the car again and then do another test day to set it up properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260Coupe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 From my experience the standard Koni reds struggle to control the front end dive under brakes........I pulled out the Konis and refitted with KYB's and the car was transformed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30Mike Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Hmmm, Well from what ive been reading here, it seems like the sensible option would to be the Lowered king springs, but what shocks should i go with to compliment them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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