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RB30X

What MIG do I buy for working on the Z

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Ok guys, I know, this is a thread dig, but it's on topic, so I'd rather post here than start a new thread.

 

I'm looking at buying and learning how to use a mig, cause I want to fix the front end of the zed up properly, and yes, I have searched the forums etc. But I'm still a bit unsure of what I should be looking for.

 

Just been up to BOC and they're clearing out their old units at the moment because they have new models coming in. They have a their 190c model going for $880 at the moment and i was wondering if this is a bit of overkill? You can wind the amps back down to 35, but is this still too high for panel work? I've read here that 20 - 30amps is what would be preferrable(?).

 

Would I be better off going for one of the smaller cigweld models?

 

I know a few of the members here have been able to get good welds with cheaper equipment, but would the more expensive brands help noobs like myself along? Yes, I know nothing beats experience and practice hours, but would it be better for me to start with a more expensive welder? I'm not using this daily, it's just for the zed and home DIY jobs.

 

I'm not looking to start another tig vs. mig / gas vs. gasless debate, but any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

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you cant have overkill when buying a mig.The one i use at work for panel work is a cig 320 or something like that and it does a fantastic job.

A 190 is a perfect size for around the home use  and that price sounds like good value

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Fuzzy, I've had the Transmig 165 recommended to me by several people, so if they are clearing out one of them can you post (or PM) their price for me?

 

Regarding learning how to weld; have a look at this post - http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,6104.msg57198.html#msg57198

 

I just finished my course and learnt heaps.  I recommend them to anyone, even if you think you can already weld.

 

MaygZ

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Thanks guys, feedback much appreciated.

 

Yep, I'm planning to attend a welding course at some stage, have to check when they start this year I think.

 

May, regarding the Transmig, they can't help out with that one as they're a boc store and don't stock any cigweld gear. Sorry buddy.

 

What do you guys think about those inverter mig welders? Just had a mate tell me to look into them, are they any better / easier to use?

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Just been up to BOC and they're clearing out their old units at the moment because they have new models coming in. They have a their 190c model going for $880 at the moment and i was wondering if this is a bit of overkill? You can wind the amps back down to 35, but is this still too high for panel work? I've read here that 20 - 30amps is what would be preferrable(?).

 

There was a BOC Mig 190c Industrial nearly brand new on Ebay for about $500 the other day, and I was seriously considering it - the thing that put me off was the low duty cycle.  However, I can forsee myself ending up welding something big (like 10mm plate or similar) at some stage for whatever reason.  For using on panels and smaller guage stuff, the 190c should be fine.  If you wanted lower minimum amperage, are they clearing out the 170p as well?

 

BOC are APPARENTLY just rebadged Kemppi welders - which if its true, makes them a bloody good investment.  However, never been able to confirm this one, so take with a grain of salt.

 

What do you guys think about those inverter mig welders? Just had a mate tell me to look into them, are they any better / easier to use?

 

Personally I'd steer clear for home use....  The whole inverter thing is still fairly new, and ultimately they just aren't as reliable YET.  The name brands are pretty good, but you'll pay for it.  Inverters are also bloody expensive to repair, control boards start at over a grand, and the chinese machines tend to drop them after a year or two. 

 

Not much to go wrong in a transformer machine - its mostly just a bunch of copper wire, and its amazing how many 30-40 year old transformer welders you find still in daily use in industry.  Newer transformer machines do tend to have electronic control panels, which are expensive if they spit it, but they have less than an inverter.

 

As far as actual welding performance, the power output is comparable, although I think they have a wider range (ie. go to lower amps).  Some guys reckon the inverter TIGs just don't run as smoothly as transformer units (start much more aggresively, and a bit less stable in the arc), and I imagine the same would apply to mig, but I've never played with an inverter machine myself, only transformer machines.

 

The weight of an inverter is a definite advantage though - actually being able to pick up and carry around over 200amps of welding power is pretty awesome...  I have two 250amp transformer machines in the garage at the moment (my Kemppi TIG and a mates UniMIG), and they are both most certainly a 2 person lift!  Being able to pick one up with one hand and stroll up the back yard to fix the damn sagging gate would be awesome, but just ain't going to happen with my machines!

 

At the end of the day, for the average home user who wants to do a bit of panel work and the occasional bench or something, a good brand transformer MIG up to near 200 amps is something they'll probably have for 30 years, and will do everything they ever need.  If you need to upgrade to a bigger machine at a later date, and you bought a good brand one now, you'll still sell the little machine for good money - just have a look on Ebay to see what I mean, the good brands hold value.

 

  You'll also get a lot more grunt for dollar out of a transformer at the moment over an inverter (to my mind anyway, everytime I get tempted by a nice little Kemppi Miniarc, I just look at the size transformer machine I could buy for half the price).

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I had a half share with my brother in an old  CIG 170 amp which is now 30 years old and still going strong. Problem is that when I wanted to use it he needed it too so Ive just bought a new Lincoln 210, Australian made (even though parent is USA) and tough as nails. Bought it through a friend that owns an engineering shop so got it at a good price, all his welders are Lincoln and get flogged every day and he never has a problem with them. Its probably overkill for what I will use it for and haven't tried it on really thin sheet yet but can go down to .6 wire and 35 amp so should be OK.

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I have a uni mig 172 its a awesome welder its capable of doing very thin to reasonable thick steel so everything on the zed i can fix , from memory its adjustable from 27amp to 190 amp  wont blow holes in everything its a very versitale mig !!! its gas and gasless but its much cleaner using gas. Relatively cheap welder which will do everything up to about 8mm steel !!!!!!!!!

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Thanks all for your replies. I've asked Scoota to come and check it out as well.

 

...If you wanted lower minimum amperage, are they clearing out the 170p as well?

 

Nah, they only have the one 190c left, the rest have been sold.

 

BOC are APPARENTLY just rebadged Kemppi welders - which if its true, makes them a bloody good investment.  However, never been able to confirm this one, so take with a grain of salt.

 

Personally I'd steer clear for home use....  The whole inverter thing is still fairly new, and ultimately they just aren't as reliable YET. 

 

The lady in the shop was saying they were built in Switzerland(?) so are possibly just a rebadged unit. Might be some truth to that.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the inverter as well, might just stick to the transformer for a while, can always buy an inverter down the track once they get a bit more advanced.

 

There was a BOC Mig 190c Industrial nearly brand new on Ebay for about $500 the other day, and I was seriously considering it - the thing that put me off was the low duty cycle.

 

Just did the sums regarding the duty cycle, it is quite low isn't it... Hmm, might have to have a chat with Scoot regarding that.. Can see myself getting annoyed only being able to weld for pretty short periods, does this change if you wind the amps back down to minimum though?

 

Thanks heaps guys  :) Cheers!

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There was a BOC Mig 190c Industrial nearly brand new on Ebay for about $500 the other day, and I was seriously considering it - the thing that put me off was the low duty cycle.  However, I can forsee myself ending up welding something big (like 10mm plate or similar) at some stage for whatever reason.  For using on panels and smaller guage stuff, the 190c should be fine.  If you wanted lower minimum amperage, are they clearing out the 170p as well?

 

BOC are APPARENTLY just rebadged Kemppi welders - which if its true, makes them a bloody good investment.  However, never been able to confirm this one, so take with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

hi guys

after reading this post, i got a bit excited and went out and bought the new boc 190c mig welder for $800 + spool of 0.8 mm wire , havent tried it will give it a go tonight

the sales rep at boc confirmed that they are rebadged kemppi

 

so now i have my trusty cem due mig up for sale

 

Loui

 

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Just did the sums regarding the duty cycle, it is quite low isn't it... Hmm, might have to have a chat with Scoot regarding that.. Can see myself getting annoyed only being able to weld for pretty short periods, does this change if you wind the amps back down to minimum though?

 

Yes, if you run it at lower amps, the duty cycle increases.  Often manufacturers have a kind of chart with duty cycles at 3 outputs, odd that BOC don't.  However I just looked up WIA's Weldmatic 175, and it has a 16% duty cycle at 175A, but 100% duty cycle at 67A.  Theoretically the BOC should be pretty similar, and since Loui has just bought one, he may be able to find those figures for you on the machine or in the owners manual.

 

Seems to continue to be strong indicators that BOC are in fact Kemppis, so maybe I will just have to bite the bullet and pick up one of the BOC 250R with remote wire feed that are sitting on Evilbay at the moment.... But my wallet hurts just thinking about that!

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h

Yes, if you run it at lower amps, the duty cycle increases.  Often manufacturers have a kind of chart with duty cycles at 3 outputs, odd that BOC don't.  However I just looked up WIA's Weldmatic 175, and it has a 16% duty cycle at 175A, but 100% duty cycle at 67A.  Theoretically the BOC should be pretty similar, and since Loui has just bought one, he may be able to find those figures for you on the machine or in the owners manual.

 

Seems to continue to be strong indicators that BOC are in fact Kemppis, so maybe I will just have to bite the bullet and pick up one of the BOC 250R with remote wire feed that are sitting on Evilbay at the moment.... But my wallet hurts just thinking about that!

 

hey guys

 

all that my new owners manual tell me is duty cycle is 15% @ 175 A

 

tried the welder tonight and its awesome

 

Loui

 

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