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What MIG do I buy for working on the Z


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#1 RB30X

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 11:35 AM

I have a good arc welder with provisions to add on TIG capabilites but I think that would take too long and MIG's seem more suited to rust/panel repair stuff. So my question is what sort of MIG have you guys got or what would you recommend to buy for Z related work? I did a search on here but noone is very specific about what they use. Some go for $500 up to $2000 so I'd like a bit of expert advice.

Also, do you use mild wire or stainless. 

Cheers

#2 xa1973

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:21 PM

My choice is any of the following listed....although there are many many brands on the market to choose from ranging in price from a few dollars to whatever you want to pay..

Cigweld Transmig 135 @ $900.. 165 @ $1000.. 200 @ $1300.. 220 @ $1600 all run on 240 volt except the 220 which requires 15 amp...in my view, anything bigger is moving you into workshop type fabrication works and would be non friendly to your pocket if you only want it for home use...

I have the Transmig 220 running .9 standard wire, do you have a need to weld stainless?



#3 reverendzed

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:35 PM

I use a $300 gasless mig (with gasless wire) and have done 4 cars with perfect penetration welds, it's just as much about the welders skill as the price of the machine.
Rev.

#4 Zedback

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 12:36 PM

I'm using a cheap ($120) 2nd hand gasless sip 120n, with a tired sheath and a busted shroud. It's slow, makes a mess and I have to be careful in how I approach what I'm welding.  But it's adequate for what I'm doing at the moment and for the snails pace at which I'm working, I'm sure a professional would never tolerate it.  One day when I have better power to the shed I might get something more sophisticated.

#5 V8Datto

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 01:06 PM

I Have a 200amp mig, (15amp plug) does everything I want it to do and well,
Have spoken to a few panel guys and they say to run no more than .6 wire for panel work, and also the gas you chose plays a big part in ease and quatity of the weld.
any one confirm?

#6 RB30X

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 01:35 PM

it's just as much about the welders skill as the price of the machine.
Rev.


So pay more for a machine if you suck at welding? ;D

I'd like one that can do gas and gasless but most of the time I wouldn't use the gas. And I thought everything used argon?

Where I work everything is eaten by acid so everything regardless of what typre of steel it is, is welded with stainless rods (309 or 316). I thought if you used stainless on the car you'd never have to worry about the welds ever corroding again, only the steel around them. I don't know anything though, hence these questions.

As I have a good arc welder, I wouldn't need a MIG that can do the bigger stuff just floor pans and chasis rails etc.

#7 V8Datto

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 03:13 PM

I'd never ever ever use a arc welder on a car, I'm no pro at welding but from experince mig is 10x easier for the average welder like myself.

Arc's just too hard in my book, so many reasons why. Saying that tho the arc welder I've used is as old as the hills, so the new one's might be better?

And on the gas side of things, I've never used a gasless mig but theres no welding with my unit with out the argon bottle turned on, I'm asuming the gasless units have a flux core wire or somthing?



Quote "And I thought everything used argon?"

There's a heap of different mixes of shilding gas

#8 Zedback

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

My old man use to sell them.  He advised for panel work, that a copper wound core is essential and to look for something that will go down to 20amps.  Then you can use 0.6mm wire.  One day...

#9 V8Datto

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 07:00 PM

The guy's I know are using the .6mm wire on 150-200 amp units

#10 Zedback

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 07:35 PM

The guy's I know are using the .6mm wire on 150-200 amp units


I'd be guessing then that they're quality copper (not aluminum) wired cores capable of winding the current back down to near 20 amps.  I think they are $2k+, but I haven't looked into it for a couple of years.

#11 zzzzed

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 07:59 PM

i have a cig 135 amp. It did a fantastic jop of building my rotisserie
and for sheet metal it dose just as good if not better than the 250 amp i have at work

#12 zed240au

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 08:49 PM

i use a second hand mini mig not sure on amps with gas works fine up to 6 to 8 mm steel

main advantage of the gas is that there is no weld splatter to clean off after but cost of having gas bottle rented all the time is a bit of a expense

can buy anti splatter spray when using gasless stops splatter sticking cheaper than rent on gas bottle

would recomend not using anything bigger than .6 mm for datsun panels with gas

if welding any body panels cover everywhere around weld area with water soaked rags keep as cool as u can to avoid warping weld in short bursts 5 to 10 mm at a time

arc welder has it uses but not much good with thin panels anything bigger than 6mm arc does great job good penetration but bigger mig works bit better again

mick

#13 V8Datto

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:51 PM

if welding any body panels cover everywhere around weld area with water soaked rags keep as cool as u can to avoid warping weld in short bursts 5 to 10 mm at a time


This is a very good idear, putting heaps of heat in any part of the car will put it out of shape and shrink everything, I found the best way is to do a few welds and then move to a different part of the car to let cool.

#14 RB30X

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:13 AM

Did anyone read that article in Just Cars or Trading post where they replaced the floor pan by tech screwing it on with a 10mm overlap, then triming off the overlap while tacking it on and removing the screws as they went along. Basically did one thousand tacks in the end but it looked good and no doubt stayed straight without the extra heat.

#15 zzzzed

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:49 AM

Did anyone read that article in Just Cars or Trading post where they replaced the floor pan by tech screwing it on with a 10mm overlap, then trimming off the overlap while tacking it on and removing the screws as they went along. Basically did one thousand tacks in the end but it looked good and no doubt stayed straight without the extra heat.



i have used this method many times before it works welland saves a lot of time in measurements.
Or i tack weld a patch over the rusted section and then cut the new section out with the old section which gives a perfect fit every  time then you gust have to grind the tack welds of and bobs your uncle


#16 RB30X

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 10:12 AM

So something like these would be ok?

http://www.amanstoys...x?productID=684

http://www.amanstoys...x?productID=681

http://www.amanstoys...?productID=2127

Obvioulsy any money I save can go back into the Zed so I'm trying to be as cheap as possible here.

#17 xa1973

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 11:09 AM



The SIP 150 amp will more than suit your needs and is a reasonable price........

Although I prefer Cigweld gear as they are tried and proven performers available anywhere, but I'm a bit biased as Ive been using their gear on a daily basis for many years in my trade....its not to say that other brands are not good long term performers, technology has improved greatly in this area of equipment..........



#18 RB30X

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 11:27 AM

Are some MIG's like this able to be converted to weld ally?

#19 menzcar

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 06:59 PM

Hi guys,
I do a lot of welding in my business (although its not my core task). Small cheap gasless welders are useless and a waste of money if you take any sort of pride in your work. Unfortunately the more money you spend the better weld you are going to get. I recommend nothing smaller than a 180 amp, BOC do a good one "magmate Pro 180" which is great for home use without spending too much. The thing to remember is that once you get the hang of welding you will find yourself welding up all sorts of things. Need a rotisserie, weld one up. Need new jack stands, weld some up, the list is endless. Once you have welded with gas you will never weld without it. Once you have a mig you will never use your Arc again. Some will argue that an Arc will do heavier gauges of steel, this is not necessarily so. The Mig welds will be much less likely to have inclusions, and unless you are going to x-ray your Arc welds, you wont be relying on heavier gauge Arc welds. Straight Argon is an expensive way to weld, and you dont need it unless you are going to be welding Aluminium. Argoshield light is much cheaper and perfect for your application. Always get the bigger bottle, as i said, you will find yourself welding up all sorts of things. 0.9 wire is the best all-round size for welding. You dont want to have to buy 4 different spools, and be changing all your linings and rollers all the time. 0.9 will work fine on thin steel as long as you get your settings right and go about it the right way. As for spray on anti spatter, as long as you clean up your steel well before you weld you wont need it. If welding any galv be sure to remove all signs of Galv coating before you start, about 2cm either side of weld, or you will get burnt and make a mess. Also buy a photo sensitive mask. They are about $180 but make the job a whole ton easier, especially when you are learning the ropes. Stainless wire is expensive, and you dont need it unless you are welding stainless, which you arent.
Hope that helps. If you buy one I am happy to give any support I can on how to set up for different welding applications. Before you buy it make sure they throw in a free lesson. All BOC outlets have a demo guy.

#20 ChiprZ

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 07:07 PM

is oxy worth a go?? or am i likely to warp the panels by heating them up




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