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432 FOR SALE IN NSW


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#21 gav240z

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 05:41 AM

Geez - you guys are good detectives!  - Especially Toecutter - I just bought the red car in Tokyo last week - and I'm very exited about getting it - my Japanese Dream Car! It will be here in a few weeks - by the description from my friend who found the car it is a sensational machine...  Here is a video of the car before shipping from Tokyo:



It is a very nice Zed. Love the Watanabe's and if its loaded with all the kameari gear I'm not surprised it cost what it did.

Are you going to keep it or sell it on?

#22 doudous

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 09:50 AM

It's a keeper - but being a car dealer I can't help feeling out the market - I think all you guys have very good investments because the Aussie Zed car market is way behind the rest of the world. Something tells me it's on the verge of having a big catchup and prices will shoot up for good cars...

#23 ozy

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:04 AM

im still amazed at how cheap the aussie zeds are. i got a fairlady too and the oz prices dont come near the japs.

p.s.
doudou: very sweet! love the coloured engine bay, she looks absolutely the finished article.

#24 Lurch ™

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:49 AM

im still amazed at how cheap the aussie zeds are. i got a fairlady too and the oz prices dont come near the japs.


And the US Zeds are cheaper again...

#25 ozy

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 11:17 AM

And the US Zeds are cheaper again...

ah quit, your depressing me now!!!
are the jap prices to do with supply or their expensive vehicle tests? you know how there are so many jap 2nd hand cars go to europe anyway because the price of maintenance to pass their regulations are so prohibitive that they may as well get a new car. so, in short, to have a classic, you need to cough up plenty and often?
because looking at the net, they dont seem that super rare over there either.

#26 HS30-H

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 07:46 PM

Geez - you guys are good detectives!


Not exactly rocket science, is it?

So, 'doudous' - do you have any answers for the questions this thread raises....?

Why was a 432 in Japan being advertised on eBay in Australia by somebody who does not own it, and therefore does not have the right to 'sell' it? What's the story on the ( ludicrously low ) 'price'? Where does the designed "by Yamaha" nonsense come from?

There are at least three other forums that have threads relating to this spoof eBay 432 ad. Perhaps they would like some answers too...

Doesn't all this just prove that - contrary to what you probably intended - people who would like to buy one of these cars from Japan would be better off avoiding you rather than using you?

#27 doudous

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

Very agro tone HS30-H...    I usually avoid forums because Dealers are very easy targets. I am on this forum not as a dealer or to promote my services, but because I am passionate about old zed cars and own a couple of nice ones too... avoid me - I couldn't care less.

If you would rather I did not participate in your forum, simply ask me to exit and I will do so immediately.

I have been advertising cars available in Japan that I can source for many years... no complaints so far and it works for me and my clients. 

The 432 was a rare car that came up at auction and sold very cheap (the price was shown in the ad). If the ad aroused your curiosity then it achieved its goal and you can ring me for more information if you are interested... Every week I see very interesting old Japanese cars like this up for sale and I think there is definately a market here in Australia for these fantastic machines.

Yamaha designed head? I thought this was the case - same designers that made the head for the Toyota 2000GT... If I am wrong I stand corrected. I am sure there are many educated heads on this forum that could shed some more specific light on the design origins of this engine...




#28 NZeder

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:21 PM

I understand were HS30-H is coming from there is a lot of missing information on the web about the design of these cars or their engineering heritage. You will hear things like Yamaha, Albert Goertz, copy of a Merc engine etc - all miss information. HS30-H tries hard to ensure info is correct and people learn the true heritage of these amazing cars (I think over the years he has become a bit P'd off and sick of seeing the same miss information time and time again - I think the saying goes - bashing your head against a wall.)

$48.000 for a genuine Z432 is a big ask if you know how much the parts that go into one of these cars and how much those parts go for. Last time I spotted a S20 engine for sale in Japan it was around $25K aka Ford BDA type pricing and that was for the more common KPGC10 engine which is different to the S20 used in the Z432's

I for one (and I bet many here agree) would love to own a genunie Fairlady Z432, I would be happy with a good replica (reads - early shell with the correct S20 engine between the struts) and if you could help someone find one that is great - so were is that winning lotto ticket I purchased.....

I have seen 2 Z432 for sale of late in Japan and they are both around 12,000,000 yen and are confirmed genuine cars. So close to $200K vs $48K so that is were the questions are raised from.

I see a number of Fairlady Z (be it Fairlady 240Z aka ZG, or just Fairlady Z S30 - JDM for these models can get people confused also) and they are around 2,400,000 yen to 3,500,000 at the moment so $33-45K + shipping and taxes

#29 HS30-H

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:53 PM

Very agro tone HS30-H...    Dealers are very easy targets on forums and I usually avoid them. I am on this forum not as a dealer or to promote my services, but because I am passionate about old zed cars and own a couple of nice ones too... avoid me - I couldn't care less.


The disaffection is mutual. Dealers are usually 'targets' on forums because they can't help mixing their business in with their forum activities, and in your case this already seems to be the case.

If you would rather I did not participate in your forum, simply ask me to exit and I will do so immediately.



This is not my forum, but if it were I'd be asking you for a fee to carry your 'advertorial'.

I have been advertising cars available in Japan that I can source for many years... no complaints so far and it works for me and my clients. 


I think you just made an advertisement.....

The 432 was rare car that came up at auction and sold very cheap (the price was shown in the ad). If the ad aroused your curiosity then it achieved its goal and you can ring me for more information if you are interested...



I'm going to go out on a limb here ( see if I fall off ) and say that the "432" that you advertised on eBay ( illegally.... ) was not actually a genuine factory 'PS30' car at all. In fact, I believe it is possible that it may have consisted of nothing more than a lookalike paint / emblem detailing job and an appropriate Japanese vanity number plate. Not only that, but it might have been a well-meaning lookalike of a PS30-SB '432-R' rather than just a plain vanilla PS30 '432' ( note the satin / matt black bonnet - not seen very often these days on genuine 432s, and de-rigeur on a genuine FRP 432-R bonnet ). I believe this 'lookalike' will have been based on a more common model ( probably an S30 or S30-S, but possibly an HS30 or HS30-S ) as the auction sale price that you quote would then make much more sense.

So - if you want to prove me wrong ( and make me fall off the tree ) then I challenge you to post up full details of that particular car, including its chassis number and engine number. Then we can see if it was a REAL 432.

Anybody want to place any bets?

The ball is now in your court.......

 






#30 doudous

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 11:32 PM

What advertisement? What advertorial? 
As I said I have posted here as an owner and an enthusiast only.
I have met a couple of good blokes through this forum and went on a Zed drive in Sydney arranged through this forum. It was a fun and light-hearted get together of people with a positive mutual interest- unlike your post. You are making me feel very unwelcome.... A bit like walking into the wrong bar room "Members Only!"

Like I said if you want me to exit the forum - just ask - I will leave straight away. Or perhaps you just want to be a bully?

If you are so curious all you have to do is give me a call and I can give you any info you want about a particular car including the 432 that was recently sold through auction at USS Tokyo. Here is the auction sheet if you feel it is so important to know more about that particular car:

http://www2.zhome.co...istory/432Z.htm

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#31 benny

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:21 AM

Im with doudous on this one, he is a zed enthuisist owing his fair share of zeds. Not many if any possess the full knowledge in regards to the s30 background, the forum is ment to be a source of information so share it as you need to. Doudous himself has said that he will stand corrected if he got his info mixed up so no big deal.

I started this thread anyway so no its not an advertisement, doudous was sharing that he has bought the red 240z and that he can get more. Doesnt the zed community want these opportunites brought to the table??

Rather then aggrovate members why not help them to understand the background of the s30 in a friendly way, because face it NO ONE knows EVERYTHING about the s30.

It seems by the auction sheet that its genuine. Give him a go!!!


Ben

#32 HS30-H

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:51 AM

doudous,
It's not my place to ask you to leave any forum - let alone this one. I speak only for myself and nobody else. If the community here, or the owner of the forum want you to leave or stay then that's up to them to decide, but I don't see why they would - except if they took exception to your placing an eBay auction for something that was not yours to be selling. Personally, I don't like stuff like that - but others are free to make their own minds up.

As for the car in the auction, I didn't expect you to simply post the USS auction sheet. I was hoping that you'd have something more than that ( like personal experience of the car, and / or some information that didn't simply come from it going through the auction ), but then if you'd had no contact with the car I suppose that is to be expected. These days there seems to be hundreds if not thousands of people and companies that promise to source good cars from Japan, when in fact all they do is parrot auction details through middlemen. When it comes to old ( and quite specialised ) cars like these I don't honestly think that is good enough. I've seen cases where the 'agent' obviously hasn't got a clue what they have sold to a client, and the client doesn't really have much of a clue what he has bought either. In one very particular case - which I saw the results of first-hand - a client was completely ripped off to the point of financial ruin, ending up with something that was nothing like what she asked to have sourced for her, and which was actually a complete wreck under the skin. The super-duper auction 'agent' had simply been a link in a chain that ended upstream with a rogue, and the other links in the chain didn't have a clue what they were looking at as it passed through their hands. A very sad story.

Yes there are good old cars in Japan and no doubt people like yourself can source them for clients, but the plain truth is that potential export buyers don't normally look at the price bracket that those good cars are in, and are aiming lower ( for obvious reasons ). The high exchange value of the Yen against most other currencies simply exacerbates this, and most of the good old cars are tending to stay in Japan for the present. I think it is very important to warn people off from expecting to get a great condition old car in Japan for any kind of bargain price. Usually they expect something akin to the late model car situation in Japan, which does not really apply to sought-after classics or specials. So forgive me if I sound negative, but it seems that the internet world is full of "I can get you...." merchants who are buying from the same sources as everybody else, and there are simply no short cuts or secret paradise valleys nowadays.

The auction sheet doesn't tell us very much about that particular car ( apart from the slightly negative but telling note by the appraiser warning of rust underneath, and evidence of crash damage ) but I will of course concede that it quotes a seemingly genuine PS30 chassis number ( cue sound of breaking twigs and a dull thud as I fall off my branch ) but - and take this for what it's worth people - this car cannot have been all that much of a bargain if it went through the auction at the price quoted ( although I don't know what exchange rate was used to calculate that $AUS figure ). Most of the better PS30s are well known and well connected, and they don't usually end up being passed through auctions. As such, it doesn't really represent the average price of a good PS30, and in my opinion would not be a good purchase for export. If you wanted a real 432, why would you aim at the bottom rung of the market? You'd want a genuine, honest example with little or no evidence of rust or past crash damage on the body ( or you'd want it to be repaired so well that it did not show ) and you'd want one with a good engine. You'd also want to guarantee that it was not simply a chassis number and component 'kit' that had been grafted onto a sound S30 or HS30 body ( not out of the question, unfortunately - and something that a clued up specialist dealer in Japan would avoid ), but I don't know any export car sourcing agents who would be able to tell the difference.......

In my opinion, something about that particular car is not adding up and I think others may have noticed this too. Hence the seemingly low auction price? I don't know for sure, but I suspect there might be more to the story than we can see.

But then, if this car is nothing to do with you I guess it is all academic anyway, isn't it?

#33 datsun-jay

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 03:34 AM

HS30-H    Why is it that whenever I see a post from you on various forums your always arguing with people  ::)

#34 HS30-H

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:26 AM

HS30-H    Why is it that whenever I see a post from you on various forums your always arguing with people  ::)


"Arguing"? Who is arguing? I'm simply trying to make a few points in a rational discussion. It's what forums were invented for......

If you've got anything to add to the subject of this particular thread then please do. Take a look at the thread's title. It says "432 FOR SALE IN NSW", which might give you a little clue?*


If you want to start a thread about me, then be my guest.  ::)











*There isn't any 432 for sale in NSW.
 



#35 NZeder

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 10:11 AM

I think the point is.

1. It is un-ethical to advertise something that is not true.
2. Miss lead potential buyer with the thought of a genuine Z432 in NSW.
3. Have incorrect facts about the car or any other car for sale.

The car in question might well have been a genuine Z432 and it might have sold for around $48,000 AUD but those in the know would only expect that to be a parts car at best and it might not have been registered in Japan (I don't know I can't read Japanese so I can't read the auction papers) which here in NZ make it impossible to register on the road with out de-reg papers and sales receipts - and all the other red tape you have go through to import a car. So in this case your $48,000 get you a Z432 body, engine (or did it have an engine?) we never got to see under the hood it might have been removed and the $48,000 was just for a genuine PS30 rolling shell that was noted as rusty and crash damaged.

All this tells me is that if something is too good to be true it usually is and if and when I have enough money to purchase a genuine Z432 I will be paying for a flight to Japan to personally check/inspect the car first as that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

I see many Japanese importers here in NZ (we have a lot given we don't have car manufactures here any more) place photos of cars which look to be taken from the same auction house. However they always state will arrive in 3 weeks time as they are on the boat already = dealer is selling something they already own. And I think that is more of the issue than just putting up an auction of some car that they could potentially get.

Hell someone could take a picture of my car - put it up on ebay and say they can get this car for you. As we all know everything is up for sale at the right price. Is this ethical - hell NO and that is what I have issues with.

That is what we call false advertising and companies get done for that - period.

Don't get me wrong it is good that doudous is a keen S30 owner and I don't want to discourage any S30 owner from this forum, and I might point out it was not him who started this thread, but it was his ebay auction that did spark this interest, which is what I am sure the auction was trying to do.

However I think this was still very misleading and unethical way to go about it. I am not a big ebay user so I am not 100% up with their rules for auctions but if they are anything like NZ's trademe you can't use it to advertise a service which is basically what this auction was about.

Rant over.

#36 S30Mike

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 11:32 AM

doudous is back on the site huh?

awesome Zed in the video.

Im not going to get invovled with the contravertial ebay add..

Doudous, how come i never see your car around? you live around the Lane Cove area yeah?

#37 sexual_sushi

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 11:36 AM

I'm probably going to regret chiming in here but...

Let me just state first that I do not have a problem with doudous on this forum.

But I can understand what has made HS30-H post the way he has. The way that car was advertised is deceitful and against policy. To make a very broad comparison, imagine getting a catalog that said we have Sony Bravia LCD TV's for $200. You go into the shop and they say sorry we don't actually have any Bravia's here, we actually don't have any tv's here but we can order in these other LCD's if you want. I haven't actually lost out on anything but I feel like I just wasted some of my time and got really excited for nothing.

Then I think the thing that topped it off was that doudous says that he isn't here to advertise anything and then in that post, attaches 4 pictures of cars that he can import (unless I've mistaken the relevance of these pictures?)


Doudous, stick around. I wouldn't even mind if you posted a few cars that you can get a hold of here and there so long as the situation is explained fully. Just like others have said, the ebay ad doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

You're an enthusiast and should be able to contribute to the forums. And I now know of another importer if I want stuff from Japan. I would rather import from someone here than some other random guy on the net.

Edit: I have also noticed people referring to the ad on other forums and most people have passed it off as a scam due to the lack of photos, low price and zero feedback on ebay. So in this case it hasn;t worked as an advertisement for your business unfortunately.



#38 sexual_sushi

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:00 PM

Reading over the post, I just wanted to reiterate, your forum conduct is and has been fine (in my opinion) and it's good having you around. This is just more of a debate over the ebay ad....

#39 NZeder

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:14 PM

Reading over the post, I just wanted to reiterate, your forum conduct is and has been fine (in my opinion) and it's good having you around. This is just more of a debate over the ebay ad....

Agreed.

#40 S30Mike

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 01:25 PM

Reading over the post, I just wanted to reiterate, your forum conduct is and has been fine (in my opinion) and it's good having you around. This is just more of a debate over the ebay ad....


This seems to be correct.

Stick around though doudous! want to see more of your cars!




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