Jump to content


Photo

LSD Diff options...What can we use in our Zeds..


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 BenZed

BenZed

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Website:http://www.otomoto.com.au
  • Location:Sydney
  • Tagline:Ken & Mary suggest carbon

Posted 18 June 2009 - 12:37 PM

I can supply an OS Giken super-lock mechanical LSD to suit the R180 in a 240Z (genuine bolt-in option unlike some) for $1990 including GST. This is a rebuildable and adjustable plate-type LSD that will give genuine 100% locking under power.
R200 version to suit 260Z and 280ZX also available.

#22 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:19 PM

I can supply an OS Giken super-lock mechanical LSD to suit the R180 in a 240Z (genuine bolt-in option unlike some) for $1990 including GST. This is a rebuildable and adjustable plate-type LSD that will give genuine 100% locking under power.
R200 version to suit 260Z and 280ZX also available.

Those are the best mechanical (CLSD) on the market IMHO.

There is lots of stuffing around with others as Ben has stated, the C200/R200A units require striping, circlip groves cut into the side gears at the correct location and new clutches added to up the break a-way or the later S13/S14 etc shortnose centres require custom spacer made to go from the M12 hole down to the M10 bolts used on the Long nose crown wheel + all this if you an R200 already. If you have 240z with R180 you then need to get R200 moustache bar and maybe diff hanger if you have an early 240z (does not clear the R200) and then if this is the case you then need to have your drive shaft changed as the early 240z have the diff mounted to far forward...the list goes on.

So LSD install are never cheap they can be done on the cheap but with lots of work and stuffing around (assumes you do the work your self which is not for everyone as this stuff can get tricky and complex)

Again like many things on these cars - depends on your budget, skills and what you want to tackle your self.

Re the clutch in the Nissan units - yes they are NLA but as stated in hybridz someone was making custom units at one point. There are other solutions too involving a different manufactures plates that just need to be machined to fit ;) and these plates are still available and are a fair price too :)

#23 matsdat

matsdat

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 28 posts
  • Location:South Australia

Posted 18 June 2009 - 05:14 PM

Is this for 110mm or 115mm R180 ring gear Ben?

#24 matsdat

matsdat

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 28 posts
  • Location:South Australia

Posted 19 June 2009 - 05:34 PM

Thought you guys might be interested in this:

http://datsun1200.co...d=31166&forum=2

This fella looks like he is building Torsen diffs to fit R180 and R200 at a relatively good cost. Has anyone had any experience with the diffs made by 'Topgear'?

#25 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 19 June 2009 - 06:11 PM

Thought you guys might be interested in this:

http://datsun1200.co...d=31166&forum=2

This fella looks like he is building Torsen diffs to fit R180 and R200 at a relatively good cost. Has anyone had any experience with the diffs made by 'Topgear'?

Me - I had one of his torsen's centres for the H165 when I was going to build a 120Y coupe race car (sold that project a long time ago) the quality was amazing but I did learn a good lesson from all this wire bank transfers between NZ and AU get raped for fee's at both ends, cost me 30% more just in fees, so the next time I purchased stuff I had a mate in Melbourne pay AU to AU then when I came over on business I gave him cash and collected the parts - saves a packet.

#26 BenZed

BenZed

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Website:http://www.otomoto.com.au
  • Location:Sydney
  • Tagline:Ken & Mary suggest carbon

Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:45 AM

Is this for 110mm or 115mm R180 ring gear Ben?


I believe they are 115mm, the 110mm is fairly rare. If you are interested in ordering one I will be happy to check this with OS  ;D

#27 roastbeef

roastbeef

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 09 July 2009 - 02:28 AM

PM sent Benzed :)

#28 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 30 September 2014 - 01:19 PM

On the R200 side of things - I have fitted S13/14/R32 LSD centres into my Long Nose R200's. I had to make/get made some spacers to take the M12 down to the M10 so the M10 crown wheel can bolt to the LSD centres.

I have used the OBX HLSD (designed for the open S13/14 R200 shortnose)- this is covered on the Hybridz website and I believe I was the first one to bit the bullet and purchase one, however I have not got this in the car - the car is still a body shell but it is ready to go. The installation into the Longnose R200 was simple really just the normal check blacklash etc. I also have 2 x Balltec units that I plan to install into my other R200's. However one of these requires/has the different inputs into the centre so this is what I have been playing with WD21 V6 axles to make a hybrid CV axle that will work with the plugins in the diff. I should have the axles complete in the next few weeks (this weekend is a Targa event here in NZ and I am doing my normal pit crew work for a team). I will do a write up then but some of the info/work I have done is also on Hybridz just search for Pathfinder or 4x4 axles (some info also posted here on this site too)



Sorry to re-hash such an old thread!

NZeder, I have a few qns if that's cool:

1. When you say you fitted R32, etc viscous centres into long nose R200s, asides from the 10-12mm spacer/sleeves, did the S30 output flanges fit in, and engage the Viscous centre properly?  I heard viscous diffs usually need a longer shaft on one side to engage with the viscous bit else you just end up with a single spinner....

2. I was reading your comments on hybrid Z re. fitting an S15 Helical to a longnose R200, and using Pathfinder Driveshafts  ( http://forums.hybrid...long-nose-r200/ ).
I'm super eager to try fitting an S15 helical centre into my R200 longnose. 
- How did you go with this?
- The Empi part number (80-4703) you noted for the driveshaft assy comes up as 5-bolt (not 3x2) versions - was this a typo?  If so, would this the be one I need for the 3x2 S15 output flanges? http://cgi.ebay.com....m=140662464905  (Pathfinder  D21, 4 cyl, 4WD  LH & RH,  9/92-10/95 for anyone reading this long after the ebay ad is taken down :) )
- You also mention using "Replacement wheel end CV of 6 cylinder Pathy axle part number 87-9096"... am I right in saying this can be substituted for a Z31 300zx outer... and (this might be a stretch)... it'll bolt onto the S30 stub axle companion flange?  (else, I was considering chopping up the outer joint from the Pathfinder driveshaft, welding on a custom 4-bolt flange, and bolting that to the s30 companion flange?)
- The BIG qn (and final, I promise!!!)... will this work out to be the right length with no risk of binding with suspension compression, or falling out on extension?

I spose I could just use S15 inner CVs, custom shafts, and some suitable (??) outer CV'sx that will bolt to the S30 companion flange... but the cheapest I've seen custom shafts was $600 pair.

If I manage to make all this work I'll do a write up to help out the s30 community :)


#29 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 13 November 2014 - 11:48 AM

Well with no extra info to go on I figure bugger it, just try it and see how I go! 

Got my hands on an S15 Torsen complete diff and am getting a used set of pathfinder axles this weekend for $50 (will replace with new/reco ones once i establish they fit... not wasting $200+ on a trial assembly ;-) )

Will keep everyone posted.  Any suggestions on my qn's in the meantime will obviously be much appreciated :)

#30 Agno

Agno

    The 1000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,310 posts
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 16 November 2014 - 10:50 PM

I'm watching this with interest

#31 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 17 November 2014 - 06:14 AM

Sorry I missed the question directed to me. So i will try and answer them now if a little late.

1. Vlsd do need a long input shaft on one side. I have not done a vlsd conversion yet.
2. I don't recall ever stating use empi axles. I was trying to help the USA guys out who had purchased some...well it was so long ago i can't recall and don't visit hybridz much these days. If I did it would have been based on my build which was using 5x1 at the diff end.

I build my axles using the following parts.

1. V6 pathfinder/terrano wd21 front axles. These are 5x1 bolt pattern at the diff end.
2. 300zx Z31 turbo axles. Used only for the 4x1 bolt cv at the wheel end.
3. A OBX S13 short nose ATB LSD.
4. S14 5X1 diff plug in axles (from an open diff)

The pathfinder axles as they where oem items they had non tri pod cv that the guys in the USA found with the empi/aftermarket items. So both ends of the axles matched the cv joints i planned for the build.

All I had to do was cut a new sir clip groove at what was the wheel end of the pathfinder/terrano so the z31 cv could be installed on this end. Alxes where then assembled with new boots and installed on a 240z track car.

I now like you need to do a 3x2 inner cv setup for my 260z track car as the lsd I have now has 3x2 plugins at the diff end.

So I now need to source some pathfinder/terrano 4 cylinder front axles which have the same 3x2 setup at the diff end. Then remove the wheel end cv, cut the new sir clip groove and install the 300zx 4x1 cv end (these 4x1 cv ends are now very hard to find so i might have to come up with something new again)

I did this conversion years and years ago, I used oem parts not aftermarket stuff like a few on hybridz.org that found tri pods and different spline counts on the axles. However as some locally assembled vehicle use parts sourced from local manufacturers what I did using all JDM oem parts might not work if using a mix of JDM parts and locally assembled parts. Just be aware of that fact.....you might get a different axles that were supplied by a local manufacturer.


#32 dat2kman

dat2kman

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location:Newport Waters Qld
  • Tagline:going sailing, see ya later!

Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:28 AM

Be aware that with extreme use, a Torsen/ATB/Helical/Geared type ""LSD" centre will revert to Open diff mode, and not supply drive to both wheels.
Extreme use such as, bouncing off kerbs/lifting wheels off kerbs, on race tracks, or, excessive opposite lock/sliding car sideways, whether on dirt or tarmac.
There is a point at which the difference between Left/Right wheel rotational speed, that causes the gears in these to be released.
Solution, keep ff the kerbs, and dont do wild opposite lock manouevres on dirt/tarmac, or spin out on corners.

#33 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 21 November 2014 - 10:34 AM

Cheers NZeder, it usually takes me 2 months to get round to doing the things I research after I research them, so the short delay in replying is no issue! :)

This is all making a lot more sense now, cheers :)

Sounds like we can help each other out.  I now have my S15 helical (3x2 outputs) and a single stuffed OEM (I think) Nissan Pathfinder D21 4 cyl (3x2) driveshaft.
No work done yet, so all I can confirm atm is that the pathfinder 3x2 fits the S15 3x2 flange perfectly - bolts line up, centers perfectly in the groove/counterbored section of the output stubs.

You'd be interested to know the inboard CV is a tripod on the OEM shaft.  That is, assuming I was actually supplied an OEM shaft (from a nissan wrecker, but who knows if someone swapped it at some point in it's life... looked pretty old/used though).  I'm ok with that, though I prefer to use a Rzeppa style on the wheel end.... though realistically a tripod both ends will probably be ok given the small angles the rear will see.  Dunno if the shafts will clunk left and right though given the ability to extend in and out of the joint at both sides if I had two Tri-pods.  Hmmm.

Did you use the 4x1 bolt 300zx Z31 wheel end CV along with something like a modern motorsports companion flange?  Or do they bolt straight onto the stock S30 4x1 bolt stub axle flange?

My rough plan was to either find a bolt-on (ie. not through-hub) style outer CV with the right spline count/diameter, and make an adaptor flange to bolt it to the S30 stub axle flange... or chop the short splined section off the Pathfinder outer CV and weld the CV onto a custom flange.

Making flanges will be easy for me as I can draw it up in CAD and give the file to the local plasma cutting place, providing it doesn't require any milling or turning.

Hopefully in the next week or two I'll be able to stuff the S15 helical LSD into my R200 longnose and rebuild my diff, give it a lick of paint, etc.  Then shortly after that I'll whack it back in the car and start sorting out the driveshafts... stay tuned and keep me posted on any progress you make! :)

#34 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 23 December 2014 - 09:40 AM

Well my axle setup is running well on another road/track car along with the obx centre.


I picked up a S15 Helical centre myself. This will go into the diff for the road car. The hlsd have 30 teeth/spline on 31mm shafts with the snap ring inside the lsd centre. They have 3x2 bolt pattern. I am changing to a 5x1 bolt pattern by using some Nismo GTPro plugins which share the same 30t on 31mm shaft. For those interested this is the same spline/shaft size as the 2 way early R32 GTR mechanical LSD. So if you hunt you can use plugin with 3x2, 5x1 or 6x1. I am going 5x1 as here in NZ there are many skyline/laurel imports that use the 5x1 setup.

Over the next few weeks I will source the parts I need again to do the custom axles setup using wd21 axles after selling the last setup as stated which is running in a 240z road/track car now.

#35 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 23 December 2014 - 10:00 PM

Nice work on picking up the S15 Helical :)  I finally got round (what is it, 2 months later?) to cleaning up my diff and installing the S15 helical centre.  I'm gonna try sticking with the 3x2 output flanges for now given the Pathy D21 4cyl axles mate up to them.

So findings so far - I've eliminated the possibility of cutting the shaft off the Pathy outer CV and welding on a flange - total assembly ends up about 3/4"-1" too long (passenger/short side of the S30)
See attached pics - one pic is the shaft at full extension out of the tri-pod end, the next is me pushing it in to make it short as possible.  That's with camber bushes fitted at full outward setting (ie. track width is wider than stock by about 10mm per side). 

Any suggestions?

Atm I'm thinking I'll try another suggestion you had on hybrid Z... http://forums.hybrid...axles-bad-idea/
Empi 87-9522.  There should be heaps of old camry's etc at my local pick-a-part, so I might have a wander through one day soon with the vernier in hand and see if that Camry inner CV will fit on the 27 spline outer of the Pathy axle.  If so I'll grab one and see if it results in an axle that's the right length (once a custom flange is added to bolt it to the 4x1 s30 Stub axle flange of course).

Attached Thumbnails

  • 43917_758e8ebc78b857cedc882f8dead672ca06331fad.jpg
  • 43915_58b13bd805a5c5e54ef5a42ceda63279da2930ed.jpg
  • 43913_1f65a0d521772d10f846d8835856b31d3ddc92e6.jpg


#36 NZeder

NZeder

    The 2000+ club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,291 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 24 December 2014 - 06:42 AM

Thanks for pointing me back to one of my old posts about the camry cv I forgot about that. Well I know the 300zxt Z31 4x1 on one end and the 5x1 on the other end of a pathfinder axle works (pathfinder axle needs to be modified with a snap ring groove cut so the 300zxt 4x1 can be installed)

On the short side it just works does not bind but gets really close to binding.

#37 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 02 January 2015 - 04:57 PM

I assume you're using the Z31 4-bolt outer joint with something like a Modern Motorsports companion flange, or a custom adapter of some sort? 

A couple of weeks of hard googling :P and some pick-a-part action has seen me come up with an unexpected combination... The D21 Pathfinder 4-cyl Inner CV (tripod), Pathfinder shaft, and (wait for it...) a VT commodore outer CV joint!  Has 27-splines and is the right diameter for the pathfinder shaft's outer spline'd section (noting the inner of the pathfinder shaft is a smaller diameter despite also being 27-spline).

No grooves to be cut as the Pathfinder's spring retainer on the end of the shaft works perfectly to hold the commodore CV in place too.  I was going to fit a circlip into the groove but the one I had didn't want to fit and the spring clip seems to do a perfect job or retaining the CV... just makes it slightly harder to disassemble later (few hard whacks to get the CV off instead of just removing a circlip).

Apparently the commodore joints are effectively Porsche 930 108mm types, and from what info I can find, appear to be the same on V8 and V6 commodores, suggesting it'll be strong enough for most decent zed applications (Mine is likely to have an RB25DET or VQ35 eventually).

I'll need to make/machine up an adapter flange to mate the 6-bolt Commodore CV to the zed's rectangular stub axle flange.  I noticed PeterAllen made up such a flange in this thread http://www.viczcar.c...ic,14440.0.html ... Might hassle him for a CAD file or drawing and see how I go ;-)

Overall length seem nearly perfect, maybe slightly long on the S30's short side, so i'm gonna try to keep the adapter flange as thin as possible (probably about 10mm thick overall... roughly the minimum required to let the inner race move through it's range without hitting anything (the standard cap fitted to the joint has a 16mm bulge in it, which seems unnecessary)

Attached Thumbnails

  • 44115_09e75eb19995cefe52dddf67e223c4aa10afa318.jpg
  • 44113_1d4dd919cdaa5e319fc407b2d4ab548be86f5897.jpg


#38 lampy

lampy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • Location:Western Australia
  • Tagline:New Member

Posted 02 January 2015 - 05:09 PM

See this page on OZdat for my commodore CV's for a r180.
I machined up an adapter plate out of 6061 t6 alloy to suit the outer flange. 1600's are the same as a zed so might give you some ideas

http://ozdat.com/for...=20290&start=90


My previous 1600 came with a set of CV's with a nissan inner joint and a commodore outer to suit a r200 diff. I wonder if it was a pathfinder shaft?

#39 Dan260Z

Dan260Z

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Melb

Posted 02 January 2015 - 07:44 PM

Took a look Lampy - very nice work there! 

Perhaps it was!  I wouldn't be surprised if someone had figured this out before - just a shame whoever it was didn't share the knowledge!

You would by any chance have a CAD file for that adapter would you? ;)

#40 lampy

lampy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • Location:Western Australia
  • Tagline:New Member

Posted 02 January 2015 - 09:12 PM

Unfortunately i dont have a cad file. Just knocked them up on my own lathe.
I dont think you will be able to make them any thinner without sacrificing some plunge on the outer joint. Mine was about as thin as you can get because the steel cover fouls on the bolts holding the adapter to the datsun flange




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users