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Jap Style Fender Mirror - Correct placement


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#41 HS30-H

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:14 PM

HS30-H: i'd tend to have to dissagree with you in that it doesnt matter if they are a bit forward or back. In my opinion you can plainly see that mirrors mounted with this diagram generally look different to japanese cars. I guess it depends how picky you are on stuff like this, which i am.


I look forward to seeing you take some actual measurements from original Japanese market cars, fitted with the correct type of mirrors.

Just don't be surprised if you come up with more than one set of dimensions ( I've already mentioned that there's more than one OEM placement ), and if somebody on the internet doesn't agree with you because he thinks they 'look' wrong....

Good luck!

#42 gilltech

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:12 PM

FWIW my NZ-new early '74 260 originally had fender mirrors, the holes in the guards I plated under about 25 yrs ago in favour of door mirrors as a PO had installed cheapo streamlined bullet mirrors using the same locations that were next to useless. However, as far as I can estimate where the centre of the main mirror mounting hole was on each side they would, I'm pretty sure, match the dimensions NZeder has provided above so they are further back than on the diagram in post #2 & slightly further out towards the roll of the guard but definitely not on the roll curve.
My 2-cent's worth is this - that the NZ-new cars had 'export' mirror placement whereas the Jap home market cars had the mirrors more forward & more inboard, & probably due to a car width rule tax which apparently existed at the time - fender mirrors were favoured for Jap-delivery cars as they were more compact (so car was overall narrower) than door mirrors (on the widest part of the car) for road tax purposes. I could well be quite wrong &/or upset some people but I'm thinking that diagram in post #2 is for factory placement of mirrors for the Z Fairladys sold new in Japan. And all that would tie in with what HS30-H is trying to point out.
As I recall there were two holes to each guard, the second being a small locating hole for a lug on the mirror baseplate forward of the main mounting hole.
The fender mirrors on 240s were more slender than those on the 260s from what I recall of NZ-new cars, presumably the same here.


#43 d3c0y

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:43 AM

I think that there is just one location and the ones that you and NZeder have pointed out are correct.
If you look at photos of Japanese cars they are further back and further out.

J-spec:
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http://img.blogs.yah...93_1?1197696694
http://img.blogs.yah...93_2?1197696694
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http://minkara.carvi...14051621/P1.jpg

Now ill pick on a few of my favorite Z's and my car which have been mounted using the diagram:
Gareth's:
http://www.viczcar.c...ach=17110;image
These guys on Hybridz:
Posted Image
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And of course my car in the first page of this thread, looks like mine are even further forward cause they don't have the plastic mounting piece, damn.

Anyway i'm over it if you want to mount them in the middle of your guards go ahead. When i repaint my car i will be moving them out board and backward.

#44 HS30-H

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 08:46 PM

I think that there is just one location and the ones that you and NZeder have pointed out are correct.

Now ill pick on a few of my favorite Z's and my car which have been mounted using the diagram:
These guys on Hybridz:
Posted Image

And of course my car in the first page of this thread, looks like mine are even further forward cause they don't have the plastic mounting piece, damn.


As I've already mentioned, there was more than one set of mounting positions on the Japanese market cars. If you choose to ignore that fact, it's up to you.

The mounting positions on that orange car above are visibly odd ( I think it takes a fair difference in measurement to make it that visible ), but what proof do you have that the dimensions I provided were used for that? I certainly didn't create the 'flipped' diagram and measurements that people are using for the LHD cars, and I think some people have clearly misunderstood what is being measured to and from. Some of them are using C10-series Skyline and 510-series Bluebird mirrors ( with the different angled / shorter stalks ), and some of them clearly need to be supervised when using measuring instruments and sharp implements.....

With all due respect to yourself, I'm wondering how you mounted your own mirrors without the proper plastic bases? If you didn't have the bases ( the edges of which are what the measurements I provided actually use as datum points ) then how did you measure anything?   

#45 Riceburner

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 09:37 PM

I agree with both of you, Mine do look further in than others I have seen, but there is a factory blanking plate under the guards that I drilled through. Also I am running the shorter style and not the original factory longer stalk mirrors. But in all the pics you have shown each location IS different. I'd suggest keep looking like you have done and find somewhere in the middle and most important a location you are happy with, after all you are going to be looking at it more than anyone else  :)

#46 gilltech

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:27 PM

IMO the correct 240Z style whether in the forward (Jap market) position or the rearward (eg NZ market) location they look just fine, it's more the slender proportions of the mirror & the angle the car is viewed from; they wouldn't want to be any further back.
My NZ-new early-'74 260 had substitute mirrors when I bought it in '84, but my then-boss's old car was around, which he'd bought new & only kept a couple of years, a sister car to mine in every respect, & it had fender mirrors which looked different to those on 240s, similar height but slightly chunkier all round & very dark grey not black; for years I kept an eye out for a set at wrecker's yards but never found any. Sadly I eventually I found his old car in a wrecker's yard too, it had hit something low & solid & been written off; but the mirrors & useful parts were already stripped.
Were Zs sold with factory fender mirrors anywhere else other than in Japan & NZ?

#47 NZeder

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 05:12 AM

My 76 260z had fender mirrors and it is a general RHD export model (different spec to Australian spec 260z of the day, and different to the Euro spec aka UK cars, these are the spec cars that were shipped and sold in NZ). My 260z was not an NZ new car - imported in 78 from one of the Pacific Island. Other countries that did get fender mirrors were places like Singapore, other Asia cointries too.

#48 Veloce

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:35 PM

OK, old thread, i know, but why start a new one when all the info is kept in one spot.... i have modified the "original" fender mirror placement drawing with measurements taken to centre of mirror hole mount (the large hole) as supplied earlier in the thread.

I'll be doing this soon so after looking at several 240ZG pics i think this is as close to JDM original as we can get without actually going to the Nissan museum with a tape measure.



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#49 d3c0y

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:51 PM

I did my best to take some top down shots of fender mirrors on cars in museums if you are interested? I can post them up.

#50 Fairlady Z

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:00 PM

my S1 240 has the fender holes. Factory ones. ill measure up and confirm if they same as the diagram. post tomorrow

#51 Veloce

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:35 PM

my S1 240 has the fender holes. Factory ones. ill measure up and confirm if they same as the diagram. post tomorrow


Thanks !  ;D

#52 HS30-H

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:24 PM

... i have modified the "original" fender mirror placement drawing with measurements taken to centre of mirror hole mount (the large hole) as supplied earlier in the thread.

I'll be doing this soon so after looking at several 240ZG pics i think this is as close to JDM original as we can get without actually going to the Nissan museum with a tape measure.


For christ's sake.....

The original illustration and the original measurements were taken from a "JDM original" car. It's in my bloody garage, alongside two other "JDM original" bloody Zs which share the same measurements.

So now you're modifying the original illustration and measurements, and adding your own measurements, with data that you are acquiring by looking at photographs.....? You've even decided to make them symmetrical, when the originals were positioned differently left to right.  WTF?

I give up.

   

#53 Lurch ™

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:53 PM

I've decided to attach mine to the roof! ;)

#54 Ledge

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:42 PM

HI
FWIW i can confirm the measurements on page one.
We restored an early Z at work that had original fender mirrors
as the owner purchased the car new. The measurements where within
a couple of mm of the diagram and not the same left and right

Cheers
Paul

#55 Riceburner

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:48 PM

For christ's sake.....

The original illustration and the original measurements were taken from a "JDM original" car. It's in my bloody garage, alongside two other "JDM original" bloody Zs which share the same measurements.

So now you're modifying the original illustration and measurements, and adding your own measurements, with data that you are acquiring by looking at photographs.....? You've even decided to make them symmetrical, when the originals were positioned differently left to right.  WTF?

I give up.

   


I checked on my JDM import after I had fitted the mirrors, due to lots of discussion. Sure enough, as per usual with Alans info it was spot on.

I've decided to attach mine to the roof! ;)


;D Bahahaha!

I think the biggest thing is making sure you use the S30 mirrors and not the bluebird style, I originally had the bluebird type with the shorter stalk, S30 type will go on when it's back together. With the longer S30 stalks, There's a bit of difference in how far they sit out visually from front on.

#56 d3c0y

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:53 AM

haha Alan you must be subscribed to this thread. When someone comes in to screw up your diagram you are never far away.

One day i'll get to move mine to the right spot :/


#57 Veloce

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:41 AM

So are these cars all "wrong"?



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#58 Veloce

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:48 AM

Pic as posted on first page for easy reference, fitted as per the supposed correct measurements.

I dunno, you can all make up your own mind, i'm not here to start a sh*t fight !

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#59 FuzzyDropbear

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

D3c0y's is different because he didn't have the plastic mounting gaskets to measure from, so they are more forward than they should be (stated on page 3).

The thing seems to be getting the 'correct' mirrors and using the gaskets to measure from, rather from mounting holes. But in the end, does a few mm either way really count as long as they're useable? I don't really understand why people are so anal about a mirror hole, if you're drilling holes, they're not factory standard so a few mm either way doesn't matter because it's still a modification from original factory spec. So as long as they're showing what they should, does it really matter? and if you're putting them on symmetrically (which is different from factory spec), it becomes even less relevant.

I understand that having the diagram to the middle of the mounting hole is easier in terms of drilling the hole, as long as it's been made up with the mounting gasket and with the correct mirrors. Otherwise the internetz gets one more piece of not-quite-accurate information.

Anyway, just put them on where you want, if someone wants to argue with you, tell them to go buy their own!  :D

#60 Fairlady Z

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:33 PM

Ok just measured mine up.

Its measured from inner edge of the guard and front edge of the guard at outmost edge no headlight cone

I get 11"x 7.5" spot on on rhs and about the same on lh but tad more.

Given the inch measurements as they seem to be spot on the center of the hole.

So in cm its 19.05 from the bonnet and 27.94 from the headlight cone.

Pics

Right guard
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Left guard
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And few months ago when i installed one of my factory fender mirrors on the same car.
Posted Image
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looks like these have been mounted depending on what day and worker.
Mine don't seem to be offset.





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